The Great Scent Control Debate

[bioguy]

I am not looking for argument. But you did ask questions, and as a matter of respect for your position, I will answer them.

And I'm not one to brag, but you said " I have darted more deer than most people will kill in their lifetime,..." Perhaps that is true, and therefore, perhaps I should give my credentials so you can judge whether you feel I am qualified to comment here. I have taken well over 200 deer in my lifetime, starting with the first one at age 14 in 1984 (took my first shot at age 9, and I must have been a slow learner because it took me 5 years to get one....) The last 150 or so have been killed with traditional equipment, and at least 25 of them were with flint points and equipment I made myself from scratch. I've killed total of 3 deer with a gun. That's just honesty, and you can make your own decision on my ability to asses the effectiveness of scent control. Now, for answers to your questions;

Q; "... do deer still wind you?"
A: No. Not even once in over 100 deer encountered this year. Not all, but most, were downwind at some points.

Q: "If so, do you not chock that up as an equipment failure?"
A: Yes, I would. If it had happened, even once this year....

Q: "... if deer come in from down wind and you don't get busted, you give credit to the suit and your scent-control routine, correct?"
A: Yes. At least for 95% or better of encounters, because like you I have always had occasional deer that for some unexplained reason did not wind me or did not care if they did. But now, not one has winded me. I repeat, not one.

Q: " So shouldn't getting winded be considered a failure of that same system?"
A: Yes, but again, it isn't happening AT ALL. If I start getting winded again, I will look for the source of the stink until I find it. And I will eliminate it. And the deer will tell me when I have it right, not a J-store article or any other paper.

Scent control is not for everyone, and you are correct that one can kill deer without it, but you better shoot before the first one hits your scent stream. And hope they give you a shot before they do. Like I did for 30-plus years.

I don't think it works, I know it works. It is beyond obvious. I have never been needed any more peace of mind, and I've never needed a confidence boost in my ability to kill deer (well, maybe between the ages of 9 and 14...). Scent control isn't for everyone because it is a hassle and you can kill deer without it, but it does work and it can keep deer from being alarmed when downwind. Not even a shadow of doubt.
Could a dog find me in the woods or in a box? Why would I even care, I'm not trying to evade a dog....

Thanks for taking the time to address my questions. I'm on the fence about whether the stuff actually works or not, but perhaps that's because I have never tried it to find out. That being said, there are some things I changed in my hunting behavior over the years that has led to better success without trying scent control. Had I mixed scent control into that equation at the same time, I wouldn't know if it was my techniques or my technology contributing to success. At this point I'm pretty confident in my techniques, so maybe I need to add new technology to the mix and see what happens. Of course, it'll need to wait another season or two because right now we are in a tough spot financially. I'm currently trying to sell my Evo so I can make this month's car payment. Biology is fun, and you get paid to do stuff like dart deer and analyze their movement, but it doesn't pay worth a crap

 

[loosanarrow]

I am not looking for argument. But you did ask questions, and as a matter of respect for your position, I will answer them.

And I'm not one to brag, but you said " I have darted more deer than most people will kill in their lifetime,..." Perhaps that is true, and therefore, perhaps I should give my credentials so you can judge whether you feel I am qualified to comment here. I have taken well over 200 deer in my lifetime, starting with the first one at age 14 in 1984 (took my first shot at age 9, and I must have been a slow learner because it took me 5 years to get one....) The last 150 or so have been killed with traditional equipment, and at least 25 of them were with flint points and equipment I made myself from scratch. I've killed total of 3 deer with a gun. That's just honesty, and you can make your own decision on my ability to asses the effectiveness of scent control. Now, for answers to your questions;

Q; "... do deer still wind you?"
A: No. Not even once in over 100 deer encountered this year. Not all, but most, were downwind at some points.

Q: "If so, do you not chock that up as an equipment failure?"
A: Yes, I would. If it had happened, even once this year....

Q: "... if deer come in from down wind and you don't get busted, you give credit to the suit and your scent-control routine, correct?"
A: Yes. At least for 95% or better of encounters, because like you I have always had occasional deer that for some unexplained reason did not wind me or did not care if they did. But now, not one has winded me. I repeat, not one.

Q: " So shouldn't getting winded be considered a failure of that same system?"
A: Yes, but again, it isn't happening AT ALL. If I start getting winded again, I will look for the source of the stink until I find it. And I will eliminate it. And the deer will tell me when I have it right, not a J-store article or any other paper.

Scent control is not for everyone, and you are correct that one can kill deer without it, but you better shoot before the first one hits your scent stream. And hope they give you a shot before they do. Like I did for 30-plus years.

I don't think it works, I know it works. It is beyond obvious. I have never been needed any more peace of mind, and I've never needed a confidence boost in my ability to kill deer (well, maybe between the ages of 9 and 14...). Scent control isn't for everyone because it is a hassle and you can kill deer without it, but it does work and it can keep deer from being alarmed when downwind. Not even a shadow of doubt.
Could a dog find me in the woods or in a box? Why would I even care, I'm not trying to evade a dog....

Thanks for taking the time to address my questions. I'm on the fence about whether the stuff actually works or not, but perhaps that's because I have never tried it to find out. That being said, there are some things I changed in my hunting behavior over the years that has led to better success without trying scent control. Had I mixed scent control into that equation at the same time, I wouldn't know if it was my techniques or my technology contributing to success. At this point I'm pretty confident in my techniques, so maybe I need to add new technology to the mix and see what happens. Of course, it'll need to wait another season or two because right now we are in a tough spot financially. I'm currently trying to sell my Evo so I can make this month's car payment. Biology is fun, and you get paid to do stuff like dart deer and analyze their movement, but it doesn't pay worth a crap

No problem! I was stunned the first time a 140 class 8 point appeared over my shoulder at 10 yards, having approached from directly downwind. That had never happened before, and then he stood there with a nice gentle morning breeze blowing from me to him, for a good minute. And that is just one of the incidents that have illustrated the effectiveness. Of course I dared not move while that close, and I was not able to maneuvere for the shot in time. To be honest, you can do a lot with just clean clothes and body. In urban zones (now called deer reduction zones in IN) I can stay undetected without the carbon. And I have not fully hashed out how much difference the scentlok makes on rural educated deer - because I changed and added several scent control factors this year besides scentlok. And the reason I did all of that was because last year I was getting "lightly" winded, that is to say, within about 50 yards deer would know know something wasn't right and nose-up, pace back and forth, occasional stomp, with some leaving quietly and some eventually calming down and continuing. This was so much better for hunting bucks or specific deer that I decided to go all-out this year. I will be winded again, because I won't always hunt scent controlled. It is just enough of a hassle that if I am looking for "just any deer" for the freezer, I will pick one of those sweet spots in a narrow funnel and not give them a chance to go downwind.
I guess the main reason I feel compelled to adress this at all is that it would be a shame for someone to not use scent control techniques because of a misconception that proper scent control won't fool the deer's noses. Now not wanting the expense and hassle, that's a fine reason and one I could go either way on given different situations and goals. But, it does, or can when done thoroughly, eliminate being winded by deer. And that is a game changer when you are after one or two specific deer in the herd. And it sure doesn't hurt for just tagging any legal deer. 3 of the does I've killed this year came from downwind... And had I been watching downwind that morning (not quite used to it yet) I would have probably arrowed that 140 8pt.

 

[kenn1320]

Loseanarrow that's impressive averaging 6.6 deer a yr. What state(s) did you hunt to accomplish that? As for 100 deer down wind this year, not sure if that's good or not. I don't see 100 deer from the stand in 5yrs of hunting, let alone that many down wind.

 

[loosanarrow]

Loseanarrow that's impressive averaging 6.6 deer a yr. What state(s) did you hunt to accomplish that? As for 100 deer down wind this year, not sure if that's good or not. I don't see 100 deer from the stand in 5yrs of hunting, let alone that many down wind.

That's multiple states, but IN has had no limit other than a county limit for a lot of years now, oh and only one buck outside urban zones. Limit in my county has varied from 4 to 8 per year. Oh, and I'm right at a 3 county corner so I have properties in each county, plus I hunt an urban zone which allows 8 more deer and a much longer season. Some years I've only taken 4, but other years considerably more. I provide meat for a number of family members too, so none is wasted. As for the 100 deer encounters this year, it's true. Now, I don't have them all named so they might be the same deer different days on some properties, but where I'm hunting it's not unusual to see 10 deer in a single morning or evening. And if I sit all day, I might see 15 or 20 easily. And I've done 4 all days this year. I do think I have one of the better areas in my region, but that is not too far out of line with what my buddies locally are seeing. I would even say it is unusual to have an outing without a shot opportunity, but it does happen.
But you know, you have me thinking about that, and I really have lost count of deer precisely, but I sort of keep a mental tally through the years, and I guarantee I'm not far off on that count, but you have every right to call me out on that. If I'm going to give a number I should have it precise or go low... But yes, it is true. And I was just thinking of all the money I've given the DNR... Doesn't change that the deer aren't winding me, and if plus or minus 25 deer means you don't trust me to be able to tell if scent control works, you win. It doesn't work. Lol.
Wow, you must have a much lower deer population. I guess my out of state hunts are usually south where there seem to be as many deer as here. I will say that I've spent some time in places where it was obvious there weren't as many deer as I'm used to, like UP Michigan and was in Wisconsin recently and wasn't seeing much sign compared to what I see around here. Trails are churned and rutted coming out of the bedding areas around here.

 

[Travisjoe]

Speaking of scents. Tinks 69 I see it on outdoor channel, my friend says he's a fan. I got some put it on dripper. Hung it on a limb. Had 2 deer walk up near it and bolt off. Anyone else hear of this? For me I think I'll leave mine in the bottle in garage till I see my friend then I will give it to him.

 

[g2outdoors]

I don't use scent attractants anymore because of the mixed results I've had with them. I've had the same experience as you where it scared deer off. I've also had the opposite happen where the scent was the reason I got the shot. In my experience scent attractants are so hit or miss that I don't mess with them anymore. YMMV.

 

[Maustypsu]

Speaking of scents. Tinks 69 I see it on outdoor channel, my friend says he's a fan. I got some put it on dripper. Hung it on a limb. Had 2 deer walk up near it and bolt off. Anyone else hear of this? For me I think I'll leave mine in the bottle in garage till I see my friend then I will give it to him.

We should probably open another thread for this since it is using scent vs avoiding it. But here are a few possibilities...
Were they does? Does that have been harrassed by bucks chasing don't want to be near another doe in estrus.
Did you have human scent on the wick? This is a warning from people who use it. I can't imagine a horny buck cares. I've seen them do stupid stuff.
Is it an old bottle? It does go bad and could put off a funky scent.
Tinks is popular and been around awhile. Maybe they've been shot at or spooked near it before and associate it with that scent.

Personally, I think the plan to leave the Tink's in the truck is the best one. Go where the deer want to be and put an arrow thru their heart when they get there.

 

[loosanarrow]

Loseanarrow that's impressive averaging 6.6 deer a yr. What state(s) did you hunt to accomplish that? As for 100 deer down wind this year, not sure if that's good or not. I don't see 100 deer from the stand in 5yrs of hunting, let alone that many down wind.

Curious - since you are reporting far fewer deer sightings, what region are you hunting? And is the herd healthy? Surprisingly, even with our high numbers, the mixed agricultural landscape seems to keep them all fat and sassy. But you have me imagining only seeing 20 deer a year, and wondering if I'm spoiled! Locally, I can pretty much pick a day to take a doe home, and I've passed up at least a dozen "decent" bucks this year. Goes to show, numbers don't mean much when the situations are so different. I had 5 deer in the bog outside my bedroom window this morning...

 

[kenn1320]

Loseanarrow that's impressive averaging 6.6 deer a yr. What state(s) did you hunt to accomplish that? As for 100 deer down wind this year, not sure if that's good or not. I don't see 100 deer from the stand in 5yrs of hunting, let alone that many down wind.

Curious - since you are reporting far fewer deer sightings, what region are you hunting? And is the herd healthy? Surprisingly, even with our high numbers, the mixed agricultural landscape seems to keep them all fat and sassy. But you have me imagining only seeing 20 deer a year, and wondering if I'm spoiled! Locally, I can pretty much pick a day to take a doe home, and I've passed up at least a dozen "decent" bucks this year. Goes to show, numbers don't mean much when the situations are so different. I had 5 deer in the bog outside my bedroom window this morning...

I hunt different parts of MI, mainly the thumb area. Years ago we saw lots of deer, not so much any more. Due to lack of nice bucks, I have to admit I dont hunt much lately. I have also hunted Ohio, Kansas, Missouri, Alabama, and Iowa in 2016 if drawn. Looking at your dates, we are the same age and Ive shot probably 20 deer total. Granted Im not real fond of the taste and therefore picky about what I shoot(dont kill everything I could). I recently built a smoker and shot a 1.5yr old buck opening day of gun. Sticks were stuffed last night and in the fridge waiting to hit the smoker tonight. This smoker might change my outlook on hunting, cause up until now my stomach never growled when I saw a deer. :lol: I also shoot a single string, modern ilf recurves.

 

[swampsnyper]

Loseanarrow that's impressive averaging 6.6 deer a yr. What state(s) did you hunt to accomplish that? As for 100 deer down wind this year, not sure if that's good or not. I don't see 100 deer from the stand in 5yrs of hunting, let alone that many down wind.

Curious - since you are reporting far fewer deer sightings, what region are you hunting? And is the herd healthy? Surprisingly, even with our high numbers, the mixed agricultural landscape seems to keep them all fat and sassy. But you have me imagining only seeing 20 deer a year, and wondering if I'm spoiled! Locally, I can pretty much pick a day to take a doe home, and I've passed up at least a dozen "decent" bucks this year. Goes to show, numbers don't mean much when the situations are so different. I had 5 deer in the bog outside my bedroom window this morning...

Yes you are spoiled! Lol I travel north for a treat!

 

[Maustypsu]

Loseanarrow that's impressive averaging 6.6 deer a yr. What state(s) did you hunt to accomplish that? As for 100 deer down wind this year, not sure if that's good or not. I don't see 100 deer from the stand in 5yrs of hunting, let alone that many down wind.

Curious - since you are reporting far fewer deer sightings, what region are you hunting? And is the herd healthy? Surprisingly, even with our high numbers, the mixed agricultural landscape seems to keep them all fat and sassy. But you have me imagining only seeing 20 deer a year, and wondering if I'm spoiled! Locally, I can pretty much pick a day to take a doe home, and I've passed up at least a dozen "decent" bucks this year. Goes to show, numbers don't mean much when the situations are so different. I had 5 deer in the bog outside my bedroom window this morning...

Yes you are spoiled! Lol I travel north for a treat!

I had seasons when I grew up that I didn't see 10 deer from a stand in a season. You know how they say PA has 1 million deer hunters on opening day? I think two or three years I met them all!!! 100k acres of continuous big woods, few farms, lots of people. Makes for a less than safe and often less than enjoyable experience.
So while I am spoiled now - at least I fought hard enough as a youth to know how good I have it.

 

[swampsnyper]

I've been in clubs with 15 members and only 9 deer killed the whole year. And if you see one you better shoot it because you may never see another one the rest of the season. I grew up where they ran dogs all year long. To hunt during hunting season and to keep the dogs in shape and trained in the off season. Deer were pressured the minute they hit the ground. I no longer hunt in clubs. Much prefer public land with plenty space to roam. But even some public lands in my area allow dog hunting for deer. I don't even like to go on public land that allows gun hunting. Lol

 

[kenn1320]

I've been in clubs with 15 members and only 9 deer killed the whole year. And if you see one you better shoot it because you may never see another one the rest of the season. I grew up where they ran dogs all year long. To hunt during hunting season and to keep the dogs in shape and trained in the off season. Deer were pressured the minute they hit the ground. I no longer hunt in clubs. Much prefer public land with plenty space to roam. But even some public lands in my area allow dog hunting for deer. I don't even like to go on public land that allows gun hunting. Lol

Kinda exaggerating don't ya think? Dog hunting doesn't pressure the deer. :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK7rjatolyk

 

[swampsnyper]

Yeah I heard that one before! Lol

 

[swampsnyper]

I don't have anything against dog hunting. I like dogs and use to have rabbit dogs. Love to hear them light up on a trail. I just don't care to kill a deer that way. And think if you don't have enough land to run dogs on and be able contain them there you shouldn't have the right to have your dogs run through a neighbors land who wants to still hunt.
I have a buddy that has 250 acres and has awesome deer on it and gets daylight pics all year until dog season opens. And he only still hunts it. Sucks for him.

 

[essdub]

Re: RE: Re: The Great Scent Control Debate

I don't have anything against dog hunting. I like dogs and use to have rabbit dogs. Love to hear them light up on a trail. I just don't care to kill a deer that way. And think if you don't have enough land to run dogs on and be able contain them there you shouldn't have the right to have your dogs run through a neighbors land who wants to still hunt.
I have a buddy that has 250 acres and has awesome deer on it and gets daylight pics all year until dog season opens. And he only still hunts it. Sucks for him.

I agree. There is very little public land here in my area of sc. I only have around five acres of land on my mini farm. There are a few neighbors who allow me to hunt their property (although several of them also hunt occasionally) so I have a total of around fifty acres where I could go if I need to. I have spent so much time and money on my own little property that I usually get a few deer without leaving the five acres I'm on. However, this year, there have been a lot more people noticing that I have a bunch of deer using my land and they have run through with dogs, walked through, hell I even caught one guy walking through while I was in my tree. He wasn't using any kind of scent Control (just like the others on camera) and was smoking while walking my trails at eight o'clock in morning. I have shot a few deer this year with recurve, compound, and rifle (tomorrow I'm using new tactical shotgun) and overall I'm happy on my little piece of land.

I said all that to make the point that I take a lot of precautions with my scent Control. Maybe not the extreme that guys like Eberhart go to, but I'm methodical about it. Plus I hunt the wind. There are only so many times you can get busted on such a small piece of property without running deer off. Even with all my scent conscious practices, I'm seeing less deer this year because (I think) the people who don't practice any decency ,much less control of any kind. What good does it do when you're the only one around using it. That's not even taking into consideration all the dogs that run around through the woods, yard, and chasing everything because neighbors don't keep them under control.
Granted ,things are different in my example than most of you are likely to encounter due to the small parcel and the lack of my acquiring multiple hunting locations. I was pretty happy before I had more deer, because I also had fewer trespassers.
Just a long way of bringing to the conversation that even if you practice scent Control, maybe there are others around you who don't. Even on your own land

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[loosanarrow]

Loseanarrow that's impressive averaging 6.6 deer a yr. What state(s) did you hunt to accomplish that? As for 100 deer down wind this year, not sure if that's good or not. I don't see 100 deer from the stand in 5yrs of hunting, let alone that many down wind.

Curious - since you are reporting far fewer deer sightings, what region are you hunting? And is the herd healthy? Surprisingly, even with our high numbers, the mixed agricultural landscape seems to keep them all fat and sassy. But you have me imagining only seeing 20 deer a year, and wondering if I'm spoiled! Locally, I can pretty much pick a day to take a doe home, and I've passed up at least a dozen "decent" bucks this year. Goes to show, numbers don't mean much when the situations are so different. I had 5 deer in the bog outside my bedroom window this morning...

Yes you are spoiled! Lol I travel north for a treat!

I guess I just have to accept it then, I'm spoiled... I mean, I can learn to live with it as long as you aren't mad?

I'm actually kind of a bumbling hunter, but with so many deer they just keep running into my arrows! Lol. Seriously though, THE deer I was hunting strolled past at ten yards and I couldn't get a shot. Note to self, watch downwind from now on...

 

[bioguy]

Speaking of scents. Tinks 69 I see it on outdoor channel, my friend says he's a fan. I got some put it on dripper. Hung it on a limb. Had 2 deer walk up near it and bolt off. Anyone else hear of this? For me I think I'll leave mine in the bottle in garage till I see my friend then I will give it to him.

I don't use that stuff either. If you're in a good travel corridor, the deer using that corridor will lay down the scent for you.

 

[swampsnyper]

Curious - since you are reporting far fewer deer sightings, what region are you hunting? And is the herd healthy? Surprisingly, even with our high numbers, the mixed agricultural landscape seems to keep them all fat and sassy. But you have me imagining only seeing 20 deer a year, and wondering if I'm spoiled! Locally, I can pretty much pick a day to take a doe home, and I've passed up at least a dozen "decent" bucks this year. Goes to show, numbers don't mean much when the situations are so different. I had 5 deer in the bog outside my bedroom window this morning...

Yes you are spoiled! Lol I travel north for a treat!

I guess I just have to accept it then, I'm spoiled... I mean, I can learn to live with it as long as you aren't mad?

I'm actually kind of a bumbling hunter, but with so many deer they just keep running into my arrows! Lol. Seriously though, THE deer I was hunting strolled past at ten yards and I couldn't get a shot. Note to self, watch downwind from now on...

I'm not mad, just very jealous! Lol

 

[bioguy]

I don't even like to go on public land that allows gun hunting.

After last year's experience of having some jack@$$ "scope" me, I was livid and a bit shaken. I could see him slowly "Elmer Fudding" through the woods, so I waited until he got into an opening where he would be able to see me and I whistled and waved. He looked at me confused, as if he couldn't figure out what I was. I was 25ft in a tree and wearing an orange hat and vest, and he brought his gun up to look at me through his scope. I pulled my gun up and yelled, "HEY! Put your #*^%$!@ gun down NOW!" He put his gun down, waved as if to say, "Oops, sorry for being an idiot" and walked off. If there were a property nearby that was archery only...I'd be hunting it!