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The Great Scent Control Debate

For what it's worth, I believe scent lok works. It's not 100% but I do better with than without it. I fought it for years just playing the wind (I still work the wind) but between work, kids and a happy spouse life's just too damn short for me not to give it a try. I would never pay retail for it, but between online clearance sales and STP, it was the same price as standard hunting garb so I gave it a shot last year. No regrets. Again, it's not a silver bullet, but I believe any attempts to REDUCE odor will aid in seeing more deer.
 
loosanarrow said:
Curious - since you are reporting far fewer deer sightings, what region are you hunting? And is the herd healthy? Surprisingly, even with our high numbers, the mixed agricultural landscape seems to keep them all fat and sassy. But you have me imagining only seeing 20 deer a year, and wondering if I'm spoiled! Locally, I can pretty much pick a day to take a doe home, and I've passed up at least a dozen "decent" bucks this year. Goes to show, numbers don't mean much when the situations are so different. I had 5 deer in the bog outside my bedroom window this morning...

The population of a "healthy" deer herd varies tremendously across the country. Where I hunt in LA/MS, if I was seeing 20 deer a sit, I would be highly concerned about a very unhealthy herd due to overpopulation. The habitat would be taking a real beating with that many deer. For most areas here, a deer density like that far exceeds the carrying capacity of the natural forests. Ag land completely changes the equation. I heard Dr. Woods say one time that 40 acres of Soybeans produces as much quality food as thousands of acres of mature forest.
 
We dog hunt in the park. It's big woods and even with the gigs and 12 hunters we'll be lucky to see/hear 15 deer.
We can't be in the park to do hunt related activities outside of season. We can't prune trees and set up blinds or shooting lanes. It seems the only people allowed to modify the landscape are the loggers and they've left it looking pretty rough in most places.
We use the dogs, mainly because of time constraints and restrictions. Also, we are up there during the breeding phase. How much that slows things, I don't know.


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Here's a scent question. I'm becoming sold on scentlok.
I walk in up hill about 1 1/4 miles in the morning. I shower before dressing with a typical odour killing soap. How long after using this soap does odour producing bacteria reproduce in sufficient amount to make you stink?


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fawnzy said:
Here's a scent question. I'm becoming sold on scentlok.
I walk in up hill about 1 1/4 miles in the morning. I shower before dressing with a typical odour killing soap. How long after using this soap does odour producing bacteria reproduce in sufficient amount to make you stink?


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Cant wait to hear the answer(s) on this. My opinion, bacteria or not, you still smell like a human, so you stink before you grab the towel to dry off.
 
I think there's more to it than the bacteria and perspiration. Are all the clothes you're wearing completely clean and scent free? Is your vehicle air tight and scent free? Did you encounter any common household smells when leaving the house or have the family dog come say bye? My point is that even if we assume you didn't perspire at all on your walk in there are still dozens of ways your "scent profile" can be contaminated.
 
fawnzy said:
Here's a scent question. I'm becoming sold on scentlok.
I walk in up hill about 1 1/4 miles in the morning. I shower before dressing with a typical odour killing soap. How long after using this soap does odour producing bacteria reproduce in sufficient amount to make you stink?


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The most I walk to a stand is about 1/2 mile. Not as far, but far enough to work up a sweat. I walk out with almost all of my warm clothes in or strapped to my pack, wearing sometimes only a T and pair of longjohns to get there. Then after I cool down I put the T in a ziplock, and I don't wipe down with wipes or spray, just get cool and dry before putting on a new set of tops starting with bare skin and adding a fresh clean base layer. I don't change out my bottom, just finish putting the heavy warm layers on. I do wear scent free anti perspirant in my pits.
I strongly recommend reading over John Eberharts writings on the matter. His current blog on the scentlok site is a lot of what his books and DVDs cover, but there is a bunch missing since the blog is a limited space format. But the blog also appears to have a few tidbits not found in his other writings. I basically started by following Johns system, but I've made several changes to suit my own situation. I have long hair, and the lady won't let me cut it, so I had to modify the system for that. I also use peroxide a lot, soaking my boots and liners every third sit, and I do a few other little things that have come to me in my dreams..
Honestly, I do a bunch of stuff that I'm not even sure if it is necessary. But now that I have 100% not being winded, I will likely start playing a little - maybe do everything else but not wear the scentlok, maybe not do some steps and WEAR the scentlok to see if it gets me winded. That kind of stuff.
I do know that just wearing scentlok won't do it, example, end of last season I was to the point where I was not getting winded. Washed my 2 base layers at a laundry mat and when done I could smell residual detergent perfume on them. Wore them the next day, busted. Hand washed all my base layers that night, and I could no longer smell the perfume, no more busted. The scentlok suit did not adsorb that smell, and since activated carbon has affinities for some molecules over others, it might not even capture that perfume vapor. I would not even consider wearing my scentlok unless I am as clean as I can get first.
In the end, what matters is what the deer say. Or hopefully don't say.
 
I agree with what all are saying. I was just curious as to the rate at which smelly bacteria regrow a on us. What is the most effective soap to suppress it?
I know there are other factors.
I ozone my van and keep my clothes in it rather than the lodge
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I ozone my clothes and play the wind as best I can. I'm mainly curious.


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For those who don't mind reading, this will blow your mind. We are talking about showering with soaps to hide our human scent and sprays. Note the temperature at which human scent was still present and up to 14 days after initial contact with said object. Ive done the conversion on the temperature for you from the Kelvin scale to Fahrenheit. The lowest temperature was 2380K which is equal to 3824F. Note the source, this isn't Joe Blow saying he experienced this or that and its not some lab who is paid to give favorable results.
Again just food for thought..........

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fo...004/index.htm/research/2004_10_research03.htm
 
The rain will wash my scent away, giving me a "fresh" hunt. My scent will be gone after a few days, so I can hunt the same stand. Well while those are well used phrases in the hunting community, I found this rather interesting. Granted we arent leaving a leg behind, but just how long does our scent last? Remember a post I made about my dog able to track a 3hr old dead squirrel I dragged or my friends dog being able to smell and point a pheasant wing that was at least a yr old? Look how old the remains are in this story, or the remains this dog was able to find from 800 A.D.

Again, just food for thought.

"A veteran of HRD(human remain detection), Higgins has been working on a contract basis with the FBI since 1991. The job has taken her from Alaska to Puerto Rico and many points in between to assist with various cases. Her dogs have located human remains dating back to the late 15th century and have worked sites with suspected remains as old as 800 A.D."

https://www.fbi.gov/jacksonville/news-and-outreach/stories/seeking-by-scent
 
kenn1320 said:
For those who don't mind reading, this will blow your mind. We are talking about showering with soaps to hide our human scent and sprays. Note the temperature at which human scent was still present and up to 14 days after initial contact with said object. Ive done the conversion on the temperature for you from the Kelvin scale to Fahrenheit. The lowest temperature was 2380K which is equal to 3824F. Note the source, this isn't Joe Blow saying he experienced this or that and its not some lab who is paid to give favorable results.
Again just food for thought..........

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fo...004/index.htm/research/2004_10_research03.htm


Interesting for sure! I have no idea how that all plays into the fact that after over 30 years of watching deer snort, stomp, and run like the ****ens at a whiff of me, they now calmly walk by and play and rub and scrape and feed downwind, completely unalarmed. It no small wonder for me also, and such a game changer that I am planning to move most of my stands this spring. I've always stayed on the downwind side of the furthest point I expected deer to travel, and picked my spot for the day based on wind direction. Now, I just want to have the most coverage of the funnel, or food source, or whatever feature I am hunting. Suddenly, almost all of my stands are in the wrong place....
It isn't that I think I have no smell, just that I know the deer aren't reacting to any smell I might have.
Reading through these papers gives me an idea - we should try to train deer to be forensic sniffers...
 
loosanarrow said:
kenn1320 said:
For those who don't mind reading, this will blow your mind. We are talking about showering with soaps to hide our human scent and sprays. Note the temperature at which human scent was still present and up to 14 days after initial contact with said object. Ive done the conversion on the temperature for you from the Kelvin scale to Fahrenheit. The lowest temperature was 2380K which is equal to 3824F. Note the source, this isn't Joe Blow saying he experienced this or that and its not some lab who is paid to give favorable results.
Again just food for thought..........

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fo...004/index.htm/research/2004_10_research03.htm


Interesting for sure! I have no idea how that all plays into the fact that after over 30 years of watching deer snort, stomp, and run like the ****ens at a whiff of me, they now calmly walk by and play and rub and scrape and feed downwind, completely unalarmed. It no small wonder for me also, and such a game changer that I am planning to move most of my stands this spring. I've always stayed on the downwind side of the furthest point I expected deer to travel, and picked my spot for the day based on wind direction. Now, I just want to have the most coverage of the funnel, or food source, or whatever feature I am hunting. Suddenly, almost all of my stands are in the wrong place....
It isn't that I think I have no smell, just that I know the deer aren't reacting to any smell I might have.
Reading through these papers gives me an idea - we should try to train deer to be forensic sniffers...

Could be many things that have changed. Everybody has a different signature and I believe some have less predatory smell than others. Maybe you hunt so often the deer have become accustomed to your smell in the location? Some of the habitat guys are starting to question that very thing. Deer don't blow and snort at the farmer, and as long as you stay in your yard in a suburban setting, they dont seem bothered by our presence either.............
 
kenn1320 said:
loosanarrow said:
kenn1320 said:
For those who don't mind reading, this will blow your mind. We are talking about showering with soaps to hide our human scent and sprays. Note the temperature at which human scent was still present and up to 14 days after initial contact with said object. Ive done the conversion on the temperature for you from the Kelvin scale to Fahrenheit. The lowest temperature was 2380K which is equal to 3824F. Note the source, this isn't Joe Blow saying he experienced this or that and its not some lab who is paid to give favorable results.
Again just food for thought..........

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/fo...004/index.htm/research/2004_10_research03.htm


Interesting for sure! I have no idea how that all plays into the fact that after over 30 years of watching deer snort, stomp, and run like the ****ens at a whiff of me, they now calmly walk by and play and rub and scrape and feed downwind, completely unalarmed. It no small wonder for me also, and such a game changer that I am planning to move most of my stands this spring. I've always stayed on the downwind side of the furthest point I expected deer to travel, and picked my spot for the day based on wind direction. Now, I just want to have the most coverage of the funnel, or food source, or whatever feature I am hunting. Suddenly, almost all of my stands are in the wrong place....
It isn't that I think I have no smell, just that I know the deer aren't reacting to any smell I might have.
Reading through these papers gives me an idea - we should try to train deer to be forensic sniffers...

Could be many things that have changed. Everybody has a different signature and I believe some have less predatory smell than others. Maybe you hunt so often the deer have become accustomed to your smell in the location? Some of the habitat guys are starting to question that very thing. Deer don't blow and snort at the farmer, and as long as you stay in your yard in a suburban setting, they dont seem bothered by our presence either.............

True on the yard deer in suburbia. I happen to hunt an urban zone, and I don't have to be nearly as careful there. In fact, when I was getting "lightly" winded last year I was not raising the alarm at all in the urban zone.
I also suspect you are correct that some have more or stronger smell than others. Not sure if it factors in or how, but likely true.
As for hunting so much they are used to me, not a chance. Been hunting these parts with very similar frequency and locations for decades. The deer have always been afraid of me, because they apparently assume I am there to kill them wether I intend to kill that specific one or not. I'm still there to kill them this year, but they aren't alarmed by any I smell I may have. And the big difference this year is that I've been doing a full and as complete of a scent control regimen as I can come up with.
But it may not work for everyone, so I will just be happy that it does for me. I actually secretly kind of hope the neighbor properties' archery hunters aren't reading this. And if they are, I hope they are in the camp that thinks it doesn't work! However you do it, enjoy it out there!
 
I've often thought that a lack of scent can sometimes be alarming to mature deer. Here's what I mean. When a deer crosses your trail and smells the ground disturbance it knows that something has walked through the area. By smelling the trail it's trying to find out if it was another deer, a racoon, a fox, a human or some other threat. When it can't determine the source of the trail, I think some very mature deer know that's weird.

It's the same idea when rattling a buck in. When a buck comes in to rattling he's cautiously looking around for the other bucks that were fighting. When his eyes don't confirm what his ears are telling him, he gets concerned. The mature ones will know something is up and move out quickly.
 
I really don't know what to think of the whole scent control thing, except for one thing. It simply overcomplicates hunting too much for me.

That might be different if I was hunting a small property. I can see working hard to minimize disturbance in that situation because you are sunk if the deer leave!

But when we're talking thousands of acres of woods and only hunting spots once a season it just seems impractical to me. Most places it would be impossible to get in without sweating a little.

Kudos to you if its your thing but I've found I'm happier if I just focus entirely on playing the wind. And I do get busted occasionally but I've never heard of anyone who didn't from time to time no matter what their routine.

I agree with what some have said about not knowing exactly what's going on downwind. I try to think of wind like a creek. It flows in one direction but every disturbance has an effect. And sometimes those disturbances can be your best friend!

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woods89 said:
I really don't know what to think of the whole scent control thing, except for one thing. It simply overcomplicates hunting too much for me.

That might be different if I was hunting a small property. I can see working hard to minimize disturbance in that situation because you are sunk if the deer leave!

But when we're talking thousands of acres of woods and only hunting spots once a season it just seems impractical to me. Most places it would be impossible to get in without sweating a little.

Kudos to you if its your thing but I've found I'm happier if I just focus entirely on playing the wind. And I do get busted occasionally but I've never heard of anyone who didn't from time to time no matter what their routine.

I agree with what some have said about not knowing exactly what's going on downwind. I try to think of wind like a creek. It flows in one direction but every disturbance has an effect. And sometimes those disturbances can be your best friend!

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I definitely get where you are coming from. It is a lot of hassle, and I never used any of it until 3 years ago and I have always been able to take deer almost at will.

I have now been winded this season because I just did not have time (or discipline..) to get it all together one recent evening and I was after the first doe to offer a shot - none did before a yearling passed downwind and you know the rest... except maybe the part about this particular little doe being determined to use the opportunity to hone and perfect her snorting and stomping technique for at least a couple of minutes straight. LOL. I finally started waving at her. That got her moving along.

John Eberhart writes that scent control is the most important innovation for archers since the compound bow. I disagree. I think it is more important than that. At least it is for me. I hunt with longbows mostly, and although I have taken many deer with a compound, I much prefer a simple, durable, shoots the same after 20 years, traditional archery kit. But my archery kit choice has nothing to do with being anti-technology. It's more about what I enjoy shooting. Much like you enjoy playing the wind, woods89. All of that said, I am little nervous to disagree with John (LOL), but different perspectives will always the same thing a little differently.

My reasons for being so obsessed with scent control (most of the time) are several, all of which together make the results worth the extra effort for me.
- Obviously, when hunting antler, one must often get the does past without alarming them. This usually means they are downwind at some point, ALMOST always before mature bucks are in archery range - 25 yards for me.
- Allows me to hunt places I would not have even considered due to swirling winds
- I can hunt small properties with much less disturbance to the deer, keeping them around longer. That said, entry and exit routes are the critical factor after you get scent under control
- The biggest one for me, but the one I would have thought least likely when I started cleaning my scent up 3 years ago, is that I love to watch deer. This past season has been my best ever, like by far, in terms of just watching deer go about the odd business of being deer. I many times had up to 10 deer in sight at once, up to 4 bucks at once, and I was able to regularly watch behavior that I had only witnessed rarely before. I would not say I saw anything completely new to me, but I watched half a dozen trees be shredded by decent bucks this year, and that equals about as many as the past 10 years combined. It is tough to find the right words, but not having deer alarmed by my smell has just made my time in the deer stand more enjoyable.

I say above "not having deer alarmed by my smell" only because so many doubters will say "you can't eliminate odor completely". I really don't know if you can eliminate it completely or not, don't even care. But I care if deer are alarmed by smelling the air downwind of me, and I am taking the time to type this all out because I am one regular hunter, who fancy's myself to know how to kill deer (aka Joe Blow...), who just went an entire season without being winded while practicing scent control. I doubted it too until I did it, although I did have to trust some folks who told me it could be done when I first started trying, because I had my doubts too.

Woods89, I totally respect your take on it. I may one day get tired of the complicated effort and logistics required to be scent free (oh sorry - I meant undetected by deer's noses)... My goal is not to get anyone else to do it, I am just trying to help out the folks who, like me, might find the benefits to be worth the hassle, and, like I did, are hearing that it is not possible. Make no mistake, a human can achieve "completely undetected by deer's noses". It took me three years of developing a routine that works for me - and it also required a significant expense in new clothes and hygiene products, and it took trusting a few scent control advocates who assured me they were not being winded. Now if a deer smells me, I know something is wrong or I am not even trying that day. And for over 30 years I was winded many many times in a year. For myself and others who have gone through this notable change in deer's reactions, the subject is no longer open for debate. It works, and if you don't THINK it does, you are wrong because I just did it.
Now "is it worth it"...? That is a completely different question - one without a factual answer. And I respect the "no"s as much as the "yes"s.
 
Fair enough, looseanarrow!

We all have different hunting situations, and were I in the shoes of many of you who practice these tactics, I would likely do the same.
For my situation, I simply choose not to.

Wish you the best in the coming year!


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