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Tethered in Petersen's Bowhunting Equipment Issue

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Pretty dang cool. I snapped those pics right here in my living room. Guess that’s kinda neat


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redsquirrel said:
I'm more worried about the people who aren't asking and interacting and just doing.
Click to expand...
Just yesterday guys were on saddle nation asking if it was ok to tie knots in amsteel. Yes it can be done , but is it a smart thing to do on bridge? I'm very new to the saddle but I research this forever! You need to know the knots , and your gear. Guys were on there saying it was ok. I've heard to many guys say it's very slippery rope.
I have yet to splice anything and you can be damn sure I'm testing stuff at ground level if I do. Common sense is not common

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Mike Nutto said:
Just yesterday guys were on saddle nation asking if it was ok to tie knots in amsteel. Yes it can be done , but is it a smart thing to do on bridge? I'm very new to the saddle but I research this forever! You need to know the knots , and your gear. Guys were on there saying it was ok. I've heard to many guys say it's very slippery rope.
I have yet to splice anything and you can be damn sure I'm testing stuff at ground level if I do. Common sense is not common

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Click to expand...
Knots can reduce the breaking strength of amsteel down to 1/3 of its original strength. I always say that just because someone tells you something is ok online doesn't mean its true. You can find anyone online to justify your viewpoint.
 
redsquirrel said:
Knots can reduce the breaking strength of amsteel down to 1/3 of its original strength. I always say that just because someone tells you something is ok online doesn't mean its true. You can find anyone online to justify your viewpoint.
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EXACTLY: AT LEAST 1/3!!!!!
 
redsquirrel said:
Knots can reduce the breaking strength of amsteel down to 1/3 of its original strength. I always say that just because someone tells you something is ok online doesn't mean its true. You can find anyone online to justify your viewpoint.
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I just know better , these guys don't look into what they are doing . I'm glad you made the safty warning deal on here.
My friends think I'm crazy in this saddle I've never felt safer , but I researched long before I went in a tree , I asked questions. This can get advanced ,with splicing rope but go to the experts ,ask questions here. I would have never known if it wasn't for this sight.
This is such a new way of hunting for me I learn every time I go up a tree but I use safty gear. Anyway thanks red squirrel, and personally I don't think it should be in main stream magazines, it's the new fad at the moment. Back in my early skateboard days (yes I still skate ) everyone was putting out boards to make money and lots of them were junk. The snake oil salesmen are already jumping in on this

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redsquirrel said:
I'm more worried about the people who aren't asking and interacting and just doing.
Click to expand...

That is what my buddy (@Stan4694 ) says about guys on the facebook page. I'm not on there but he told me he keeps telling people to join THIS FORUM. Where they can get accurate information and questions answered. He sees a lot of sketchy things on there.
 
Mike Nutto said:
Just yesterday guys were on saddle nation asking if it was ok to tie knots in amsteel. Yes it can be done , but is it a smart thing to do on bridge? I'm very new to the saddle but I research this forever! You need to know the knots , and your gear. Guys were on there saying it was ok. I've heard to many guys say it's very slippery rope.
I have yet to splice anything and you can be damn sure I'm testing stuff at ground level if I do. Common sense is not common

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Click to expand...

I suggested NOT to tie knots in Amsteel on a different post on Facebook and I got criticized for it. Some people get an idea in their head and you can't stop them.
 
flinginairos said:
I suggested NOT to tie knots in Amsteel on a different post on Facebook and I got criticized for it. Some people get an idea in their head and you can't stop them.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what I mean, your bridge is a life line. Amsteel is serious stuff but a knot tied wrong , a material designed for certain use. I guess sure you could but I've heard tails of it slipping , so why take that chance? Like I said common sense isn't common these days

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Mike Nutto said:
That's exactly what I mean, your bridge is a life line. Amsteel is serious stuff but a knot tied wrong , a material designed for certain use. I guess sure you could but I've heard tails of it slipping , so why take that chance? Like I said common sense isn't common these days

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Click to expand...

And it's very very easy to splice. I just don't understand why anyone would want to tie a knot in it.
 
Maybe we need to write a standard for what is best practice. We can make it a mantra of for the website. If we dont, someone else will. We have enough experience on this site to do this. I have seen this in state hunter safety programs.
Just a thought.
 
Mike Nutto said:
That's exactly what I mean, your bridge is a life line. Amsteel is serious stuff but a knot tied wrong , a material designed for certain use. I guess sure you could but I've heard tails of it slipping , so why take that chance? Like I said common sense isn't common these days

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Click to expand...
The other thing to keep in mind is loads and safety factors. Everyone should read this if they are using amsteel of any sort for their bridge or and life support components: https://www.samsonrope.com/catalog/rope-users-manual

Just some quick calcs to throw out there for people to turnover:

MBS(minimum breaking strength) for Amsteel blue 1/4" is 7700lbs
Suggestd SF(Safety Factory *for life support(most fire and high angel rescue institutes*) 15

WLL(working load limit)= MBS / SF
=7700/15
=513lbs

So WLL for Amsteel Blue 1/4" for life support(according to manufacturer recommendations and usage specs) is 513lbs, and that is with a correct splice in each end in which the diameter of the eye of the splice never gets below 3x the diameter of the rope(so in in this case 3/4").

Hmm, my biners aren't 3/4"in diameter are yours? If my recollection is correct(It may not be, I dont have a source for this right now, but I'm sure I could find one) generally an average climbing rope(kermantle) with a bite running through a caribiner losers approximates 30% WLL at the bend...

General guidelines in a SINGLE KERMANTLE ROPE(amsteel is hollow core and will be MUCH MUCH REDUCED):
No Knot 100%
Figure 8 75-80%
Bowline 70-75%
Double Overhand Bend 65-70%
Ring Bend 60-70%
Clove Hitch 60-65%
Overhand 60-65%
Two Half Hitches (tested over 16mm diameter ring) 60-70%
Square Knot 43-70%

Again, AMSTEEL IS HOLLOW CORE. I believe samson states to consider knots in Amsteel decreasing MBS by 50%, but a lot of industry says, at least 30%... And I'm not even taking into consideration knot slippage...

lawrence said:
Maybe we need to write a standard for what is best practice. We can make it a mantra of for the website. If we dont, someone else will. We have enough experience on this site to do this. I have seen this in state hunter safety programs.
Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that is kind of up to the manufacturer to determine. When a product is not specifically used for what it was designed for, there are no "best practices" that apply... Again, see the samson rope user manual link above.

**I URGE EVERYONE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND NUMBERS ON THIS -- DONT TRUST ME, EDUCATE YOURSELF AND MAKE A CONSCIENTIOUS DECISION PLEASE **
 
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Vtbow said:
The other thing to keep in mind is loads and safety factors. Everyone should read this if they are using amsteel of any sort for their bridge or and life support components: https://www.samsonrope.com/catalog/rope-users-manual

Just some quick calcs to throw out there for people to turnover:

MBS(minimum breaking strength) for Amsteel blue 1/4" is 7700lbs
Suggestd SF(Safety Factory *for life support(most fire and high angel rescue institutes*) 15

WLL(working load limit)= MBS / SF
=7700/15
=513lbs

So WLL for Amsteel Blue 1/4" for life support(according to manufacturer recommendations and usage specs) is 513lbs, and that is with a correct splice in each end in which the diameter of the eye of the splice never gets below 3x the diameter of the rope(so in in this case 3/4").

Hmm, my biners aren't 3/4"in diameter are yours? If my recollection is correct(It may not be, I dont have a source for this right now, but I'm sure I could find one) generally an average climbing rope(kermantle) with a bite running through a caribiner losers approximates 30% WLL at the bend...

General guidelines in a SINGLE KERMANTLE ROPE(amsteel is hollow core and will be MUCH MUCH REDUCED):
No Knot 100%
Figure 8 75-80%
Bowline 70-75%
Double Overhand Bend 65-70%
Ring Bend 60-70%
Clove Hitch 60-65%
Overhand 60-65%
Two Half Hitches (tested over 16mm diameter ring) 60-70%
Square Knot 43-70%

Again, AMSTEEL IS HOLLOW CORE. I believe samson states to consider knots in Amsteel decreasing MBS by 50%, but a lot of industry says, at least 30%...



Unfortunately that is kind of up to the manufacturer to determine. When a product is not specifically used for what it was designed for, there are no "best practices" that apply... Again, see the samson rope user manual link above.

**I URGE EVERYONE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND NUMBERS ON THIS -- DONT TRUST ME, EDUCATE YOURSELF AND MAKE A CONSCIENTIOUS DECISION PLEASE **
Click to expand...
So you saying the knot has 75% strength in say a figure 8 knot, so that would be 25% strength loss ?

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Vtbow said:
The other thing to keep in mind is loads and safety factors. Everyone should read this if they are using amsteel of any sort for their bridge or and life support components: https://www.samsonrope.com/catalog/rope-users-manual

Just some quick calcs to throw out there for people to turnover:

MBS(minimum breaking strength) for Amsteel blue 1/4" is 7700lbs
Suggestd SF(Safety Factory *for life support(most fire and high angel rescue institutes*) 15

WLL(working load limit)= MBS / SF
=7700/15
=513lbs

So WLL for Amsteel Blue 1/4" for life support(according to manufacturer recommendations and usage specs) is 513lbs, and that is with a correct splice in each end in which the diameter of the eye of the splice never gets below 3x the diameter of the rope(so in in this case 3/4").

Hmm, my biners aren't 3/4"in diameter are yours? If my recollection is correct(It may not be, I dont have a source for this right now, but I'm sure I could find one) generally an average climbing rope(kermantle) with a bite running through a caribiner losers approximates 30% WLL at the bend...

General guidelines in a SINGLE KERMANTLE ROPE(amsteel is hollow core and will be MUCH MUCH REDUCED):
No Knot 100%
Figure 8 75-80%
Bowline 70-75%
Double Overhand Bend 65-70%
Ring Bend 60-70%
Clove Hitch 60-65%
Overhand 60-65%
Two Half Hitches (tested over 16mm diameter ring) 60-70%
Square Knot 43-70%

Again, AMSTEEL IS HOLLOW CORE. I believe samson states to consider knots in Amsteel decreasing MBS by 50%, but a lot of industry says, at least 30%... And I'm not even taking into consideration knot slippage...



Unfortunately that is kind of up to the manufacturer to determine. When a product is not specifically used for what it was designed for, there are no "best practices" that apply... Again, see the samson rope user manual link above.

**I URGE EVERYONE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH AND NUMBERS ON THIS -- DONT TRUST ME, EDUCATE YOURSELF AND MAKE A CONSCIENTIOUS DECISION PLEASE **
Click to expand...
Good info sir. Reason for ours being 15 in the fire service is because of a two person load and the NFPA. My entire career 1/2" was standard, now 11mm is acceptable for rescue. I feel in our application when used by competent people we are very safe with good rope at least 9mm. I just hope and pray all these new people get trained to properly use their gear and practice it. When things get western at 30' isn't the time to learn to self rescue. Train like you fight.
 
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