Minimalist Pioneer Steps- my 1st thoughts

[Flyerzfan10]

Must be a trad thing…. I too have used truck bed liner to paint risers that i warfed. Only warf i have left is my Bear mini mag. That thing will shoot just as well as better than my custom bows.

 

[GeoFish]

Why are you guy's buying so many steps?
Using the two step climbing method, I can get to 15 feet with 6 steps and I am only taking 15" step spacing.
6 Tree Hopper steps with Amsteel, buckle and two Swaiders weigh 3Lbs. 2oz.

 

[DaveH]

Not using knaider/swaider here. Never hurts to have a few extra steps. I might use a couple for getting all the way around the other side of the tree from my Predator.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

I only hang ten. Then a ROS. That gets me more than high enough

 

[GeoFish]

Not using a knaider, using two Swaiders. See my post tree steps and aiders.

 

[Petrichor]

How do the pioneers compare to the silent approach? I noticed the pioneers have a weight limit on his site but not the silent approach? I went with silent approach because they were lighter and a little cheaper. I liked the review. Any insight would be great.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

Disclaimer: I'm a newbie. I dig SRT climbing when I can pre-set, and I like my WE Stepps. And beyond that, I've only ever hunted from ladder stands or on the ground. So my experience is limited. But these things are a game changer for me.

The bad: They're kinda pricey, when you look at the three pieces of material. A little machined aluminum, a little amsteel, a buckle. $23.99 if you buy it pre-made, $15.61 if you do the assembly work yourself. Not entirely unreasonable, but $240 = a 10-step set = approximately 15-20 feet up a tree. And right now the pre-made ones are out of stock, so you can only buy the DIY kits. And while the DIY is easy work, holy CRAP is it tedious. 29 or 30 locked brummels and two 8" buries for each step. I have seven made so far. Each one takes a little bit less than an hour now that I've got it down. People who struggle with "DIY" should probably just forget it. In fact, unless you're a skinflint like me or have some other design in mind for the amsteel sling, the extra money for the pre-made version is more than worth it. And that's the only bad thing I can say: it took more money and time than would be perfect.

The good: It's light. It's quiet. It's easy. It's small. On trees with crumbly bark that made it difficult to use my WE Stepps, these things did fine. In my neck of the woods, Live oaks and Slash or Longleaf pines dominate. My Stepps don't do well when the tree bark is over an inch thick and all too happy to break loose. After watching several videos and using some new (to me) methods, the Pioneer Steps were ridiculously easy. Aside from maybe SRT climbing in a pre-set tree, this was the fastest that I've ever gotten up to hunting height. It was definitely the easiest. In fact, even my wife was able to easily use them. I had previously introduced her to the Stepps and SRT climbing. She did OK, but struggled. With the Pioneer Steps Minimalist system, she easily got up the tree and back down. I'm not really sure how to convey how excited I am about these things. They're just so ridiculously easy to carry and deploy.

Not good, not bad, but you should know: Watch the dang videos. There's a bit of a knack to these things that's super easy if you know the tricks, but I could imagine someone trying them with no prior direction and having a REALLY bad time. They do swing out to the sides a bit if you don't use them right. And the guy in the video tends to use the center of his boot (in the arch of his foot) on the steps, but I did better using the balls of my feet. Also, I had to use and trust my linesman's belt more than ever before. I struggled a little at first, because I was hugging the tree to climb and then leaning out into the belt. But by just hanging onto the belt and flipping it up the tree, I was able to use only my legs to climb. Much easier. Another thing-- some climbing methods including the WE Stepps have "cheat codes". With a little more work using the Cain or Modified Cain (or other) method, you can get 2-3 times the height gains from each move. I can't imagine getting more than about 2 feet from each Pioneer step, and that's if you're quite tall or limber. You WILL need one Pioneer step for each step up the tree.

Overall: If you can't tell, I'm in love with these things. I fell in love with them watching the initial videos, and was amazed to learn that they are every bit as easy as they're portrayed in the vids. My fingers hurt from hours of putting them together, and my wallet hurts from buying something that I had to spend so much time putting together. Other than that, I feel like I'm running up trees now. I'll definitely keep at least one WE Stepp to hold my Perch platform. And there's gonna be a wiggly tree or two each season that justifies keeping the other 7 Stepps in my set. But if I can't single-rope my way up a tree, I'm going to Pioneer up.

So I got my amsteel in yesterday and my buckles will be here Saturday. What's the shortest daisy chain you made? I made one up last night and started with 10 1/2' of amsteel. I ended up with a daisy chain just shy of 5'. I don't hunt trees that I can't get my arms around so I don't think anything over 6' is needed. Any suggestions? Thanks

 

[raisins]

So I got my amsteel in yesterday and my buckles will be here Saturday. What's the shortest daisy chain you made? I made one up last night and started with 10 1/2' of amsteel. I ended up with a daisy chain just shy of 5'. I don't hunt trees that I can't get my arms around so I don't think anything over 6' is needed. Any suggestions? Thanks

If you are using the trucker's hitch method then you have to allow more length to tie the hitch and terminate it. I use the trucker's hitch with tree hopper steps and wrap back around the step. My daisy chains are 8 feet long. It is usually too much on my typical trees. On a tree as big around as I can reach and barely touch fingers, I'd say 8 feet would be closer to appropriate.

 

[swampdonkey]

I bought two sets of Hawk Monkey Bars steps (identical to my 4 squirrel steps) for $49.99 TOTAL with a code at Sportsman’s Warehouse back in Aug. Idk boys, ive been using them and cannot tell the difference between the monkey bars and my $27 a piece Squirrel Steps. My 4 Squirrel steps cost me double the cost of my 8 Hawk Monkey Bars and they’re virtually identical.

Even at full price 4 Monkey Bars are $49.99 vs $108 for 4 Squirrel Steps and they function just the same.

Go get yourself some your wallet will thank you.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

I bought two sets of Hawk Monkey Bars steps (identical to my 4 squirrel steps) for $49.99 TOTAL with a code at Sportsman’s Warehouse back in Aug. Idk boys, ive been using them and cannot tell the difference between the monkey bars and my $27 a piece Squirrel Steps. My 4 Squirrel steps cost me double the cost of my 8 Hawk Monkey Bars and they’re virtually identical.

Even at full price 4 Monkey Bars are $49.99 vs $108 for 4 Squirrel Steps and they function just the same.

Go get yourself some your wallet will thank you.

That is a good price. I bout 10 pioneer steps with straps for 111.00 and change.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

If you are using the trucker's hitch method then you have to allow more length to tie the hitch and terminate it. I use the trucker's hitch with tree hopper steps and wrap back around the step. My daisy chains are 8 feet long. It is usually too much on my typical trees. On a tree as big around as I can reach and barely touch fingers, I'd say 8 feet would be closer to appropriate.

Did you do a bury where your step rides on the daisy or is it single strand? If you've watched the video on Bullman Outdoors of him making a daisy .. he makes an 8" bury where the step rides.

 

[raisins]

Did you do a bury where your step rides on the daisy or is it single strand? If you've watched the video on Bullman Outdoors of him making a daisy .. he makes an 8" bury where the step rides.

I did a straight daisy chain and slid the step over it. I then tied overhand knots on each side of the step in the daisy chain (as close I could get to step sides) to prevent the step from sliding around on the daisy chain. I no longer recommend that method because knots weaken amsteel and also once you use them the knots cannot be untied. I would instead center the step on a daisy chain link and then tie with paracord a knot on each side that goes inside the links (so it can't slide) and is bulky enough that the step can't get over it.

So, I don't do it like Bullman does at all. I'm not sure I see where a full bury has any advantage, but I might be missing it.

 

[GeoFish]

I made my Daisy's about 7+ feet. Started with 16 feet. I did a 10" bury with 1/4" amsteel. The steps do not slide on the bury.
I would make at least two steps with long Daisy's. I love those split trunk trees.

 

[Flyerzfan10]

I did a straight daisy chain and slid the step over it. I then tied overhand knots on each side of the step in the daisy chain (as close I could get to step sides) to prevent the step from sliding around on the daisy chain. I no longer recommend that method because knots weaken amsteel and also once you use them the knots cannot be untied. I would instead center the step on a daisy chain link and then tie with paracord a knot on each side that goes inside the links (so it can't slide) and is bulky enough that the step can't get over it.

So, I don't do it like Bullman does at all. I'm not sure I see where a full bury has any advantage, but I might be missing it.

i think the only advantage of the bury is thicker amsteel to possible wear through?? Just a thought. So your daisy is loops the entire length?

 

[Flyerzfan10]

Raisins - I found your post from a while back where you explained the daisy chains with treehopper steps in great detail with pictures. With these pioneer steps do you think you could do the truckers hitch and do a few final wraps around the buck to finish it off? I like how you are able to get them tight and not sag like bullman does in his videos.

 

[raisins]

i think the only advantage of the bury is thicker amsteel to possible wear through?? Just a thought. So your daisy is loops the entire length?

Yep, same as a climbing stick style daisy chain, but I made the spacing on the loops longer (because I'm not worried about a tight fit on a versabutton or getting a stick tight...since I'm using the trucker hitch method). My brummel locks are about 4" apart.

 

[raisins]

Raisins - I found your post from a while back where you explained the daisy chains with treehopper steps in great detail with pictures. With these pioneer steps do you think you could do the truckers hitch and do a few final wraps around the buck to finish it off? I like how you are able to get them tight and not sag like bullman does in his videos.

I bought 2 Pioneer steps and did it. It works great. I'll probably do it with the Pioneer steps next year. I'm just not in the mood to spend the money and make all those daisy chains (I can't reuse my tree hopper ones due to the overhand knots getting very tight....I don't even wanna think about picking them apart with a fid or something). User @GeoFish did the same as me but I believe he use a buckle from DanO and EWO and he terminates by wrapping around it instead of the step itself.

I hunted with the trucker hitched steps all last year. They are incredibly secure. I never had one shift, slide around, or sag down a tree. I feel they are more secure than most sticks, unless maybe you trucker hitch a stick and the stick has really good standoffs. I'm glad it is catching on.

 

[raisins]

Raisins - I found your post from a while back where you explained the daisy chains with treehopper steps in great detail with pictures. With these pioneer steps do you think you could do the truckers hitch and do a few final wraps around the buck to finish it off? I like how you are able to get them tight and not sag like bullman does in his videos.

This long one with video?

description/review of amsteel buckleless treehopper step climbing method after 20+ hunts

I described on someone else's thread a while back how I was going to try an amsteel daisy chain method with treehopper steps. I developed that and used it for the past 20 or so hunts and this will be my method until maybe I switch to Tethrd One sticks with aiders. Any critiques or suggestions...

saddlehunter.com

 

[raisins]

Raisins - I found your post from a while back where you explained the daisy chains with treehopper steps in great detail with pictures. With these pioneer steps do you think you could do the truckers hitch and do a few final wraps around the buck to finish it off? I like how you are able to get them tight and not sag like bullman does in his videos.

PS...I would definitely round the edges inside the Pioneer step slot. I think they would start to cut the daisy chain after some hunts. I used a sanding head on a dremel.

 

[GeoFish]

i think the only advantage of the bury is thicker amsteel to possible wear through?? Just a thought. So your daisy is loops the entire length?

The thicker bury stops the step from sliding.