• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Who has snorted the Fairy Dust?

I’ve read into the heavy arrow ideas. I’ve noticed something. The guy who pointed me towards heavy arrows is 72. He has shot heavy for awhile. I didn’t know who the ranch fairy was. Then I looked him up. Considering there has always been a light vs heavy camp. Why did it take an annoying obnoxious guy to make it a trending fad rather than experience from older hunters.
 
Weldabeast said:
The splatter on the trunk is very satisfying.....never seen it in ur avatar since it's smaller pic.

I had very similar just opposite....arrow entered by the hip bone and exited where the neck and head come together....almost full length pass thru...3 broke ribs and broken front shoulder
Click to expand...
Yes, I believe that is what Dexter Morgan referred to as "high velocity spatter", lol.

It's comforting to know that when the deer don't follow the script and pose stock still for the shot that the setup you have gives you the best chance of bringing home the venison, and sometimes some nice horns.
 
GeoFish said:
[QUOTE="NMSbowhunter, post: 635131, member: The arrow then went on after passing through her and the broadhead stuck up half its length a tree.
Click to expand...

Broadhead stuck in tree, I hate it when that happens, LOL.
[/QUOTE]
I had to unscrew the arrow shaft and come back a few days later with a chisel to get it out. The one downside, lol.
 
Lowg08 said:
I’ve read into the heavy arrow ideas. I’ve noticed something. The guy who pointed me towards heavy arrows is 72. He has shot heavy for awhile. I didn’t know who the ranch fairy was. Then I looked him up. Considering there has always been a light vs heavy camp. Why did it take an annoying obnoxious guy to make it a trending fad rather than experience from older hunters.
Click to expand...
Well it isn't anything new, and Troy Fowler, AKA the Ranch Fairy didn't come up with any of this. He is extoling the virtues of what Dr. Ed Ashby discovered during his 30 or so years of meticulous scientific research into arrow lethality conducted on live animals. Dr. Ashby was instrumental in getting bowhunting legalized through out Africa and went on to do unfunded research into arrow lethality that built on the data he collected during the Natal Study in South Africa. Dr. Ashby didn't take money from any manufacturers and told it like it is. If XZY broadhead disintegrated, bent or broke, he showed it. If it did well, he showed it. The Ashby reports were made public for anyone and everyone to see, free of charge. They are still readily available. I have read through all the reports several times.

As you can imagine, a lot of big archery companies didn't like that. They spend many thousands of dollars on TV personalities to show their products in the best light possible. If a TV hunter has a broadhead give up the ghost on a deer during the making of a show their sponsor is paying them to make how likely are they to show that? Imagine if an SEC football coach got to edit the game before it was aired and only show the plays that paid off.

Ranch Fairy is one of those guys, who, based on how you are wired, you either like him or hate him. He presents this Youtube persona. The science he is presenting is solid. If you can't stand Ranch Fairy's presentation, maybe go to the source. The Ashby reports are calm, analytical and have enough graphs to make any scientist happy.
 
For me, I have no issues at all with the science. It's all presented very well, obviously well researched, and nobody can argue with those very basic principles. My only point is that for deer and most other game, it is completely unnecessary to run those very heavy arrows. The trade-offs tip the scale well before you get to that 600gn mark. It's like taking your Ford F-650 flat bed truck for your weekly run to the grocery store. Sure, it gets the job done, but it's overkill. It's a lot of wasted energy. The 4-cylinder sedan would have been the better choice when considering the big picture.
 
Spartan said:
For me, I have no issues at all with the science. It's all presented very well, obviously well researched, and nobody can argue with those very basic principles. My only point is that for deer and most other game, it is completely unnecessary to run those very heavy arrows. The trade-offs tip the scale well before you get to that 600gn mark. It's like taking your Ford F-650 flat bed truck for your weekly run to the grocery store. Sure, it gets the job done, but it's overkill. It's a lot of wasted energy. The 4-cylinder sedan would have been the better choice when considering the big picture.
Click to expand...
I get the point you are trying to make. If you need to shoot long distances where you hunt trajectory might play into it. To me a 25 yard shot is the maximum distance I am willing to take a shot at an unwounded deer. To me that is the whole point in bowhunting. I work hard to develop my skills to the point where I can put myself inside that 20 yard bubble undetected. I haven't shot past 20 yards on a deer in 4 years, most at 16, some as close as 6. That has nothing at all to do with the capabilities of my bow or arrows.

I set my sight to shoot dead on at about 22 yards. I put the single pin on the spot I want to hit and concentrate on taking the shot. It the deer is very close, say 6 yards, I hold just a tad low. If it were at 25, I hold about an inch high. Easy as pie. The bow is very, very quiet. Most of the time the deer don't react to the shot. The arrow zips through and they trot a short way and fall over. If they do react and the spot I was aiming at has moved after the arrow left the bow I know I have the very best chance possible for that arrow to give me a lethal hit and reach the vitals. from any angle.

The vehicle analogy works. Either will get you to the store and back. The big truck will burn a bit more gas and might be slower out of the gate. Which one will you be more likely to walk away from if a log truck runs a red light and slams into you? I like to hedge my bets a bit. What happens when things go sideways? I see the "heavy" set up as a full size pickup with 4 wheel drive, the light arrow as a Taurus or Altima. The problem really come when you try to go to the store in a formula one race car. It will get you there really fast but hit anything at all and you are in trouble.

As much time, money and passion I put into hunting I want to know that the single most important component of the hunt, the only piece of hunting gear to interact with the animal, the arrow, has the very best chance of doing the job when the chips are down.
 
Last edited:
It all is well and good. Just a personal preference in my opinion. On an individual level. If I go to shoot a massive animal these heavy arrows may come out but until I chase something besides that whitetail and black bear. I’ll be good.
 
The past few months I have been watching YouTube videos of whitetail and black bear hunts mostly, along with some elk, hog and Alaskan bear hunts but not for the entertainment value or to pass the time like you may think. I was looking at them to see the arrow placement and penetration to get a visual perspective about this very subject since everyone always hits where they're aiming and their arrow always blows thru deer if you believe the posts on online forums.

Now there's no way to know what the gear specifications were for each shot but what I can say for sure is lots of people suck at archery. If I had to put numbers to it I would say 20% of the shots were poor placement (lower leg, spine or gut) and at least 30% were not complete pass through shots. Of that 30%, 80-90% had minimal penetration meaning half to three quarters of the fletched end of the arrow was waving out of the animal as it ran off. Some arrows could be seen porpoising in flight on the way to the animal which is clearly indicative of a poorly tuned bow. Go watch a bunch of videos to see it for yourself if you don't believe me.

If I had to guess I would say the vast majority if not all of the poor penetration results were because of a combination of light weight setups, broadhead selection and poor bow tunes. Let's be honest here, most everyone who is or has moved to shooting a heavier setup has done so because of poor penetration results in the past while using lighter arrows, myself included. Heavy arrow users don't tune with a chronograph because we don't care if you think our arrow speed is slow and bragging how fast your arrow is doesn't help with penetration. We know our shooting ranges and accept limitations (there are none out to 40 yards BTW) and are very comfortable with them.

I think there are three types of shooters. On one end of the spectrum are the guys who are deeply involved with their bow tune and shooting "lighter" arrows who don't have any issues whatsoever. This group probably consists of true archery fanatics and pro target shooters who love everything archery and really don't care what everyone else is shooting. On the opposite end are the heavy arrow users which is made up primarily of bowhunters who are also very in touch with their bow tune and arrow flight characteristics and don't have penetration problems. This group doesn't fling arrows recklessly either, they know the range and wait for game to get closer or they'll pass on the shot. But unfortunately I feel the vast majority of bowhunters fall into this third category which is a huge one. This group consists of the uninformed, the newbies, the hash tag followers, the groupies etc who believe whatever their bow shop salesman or favorite man crush recommends while having little to no idea themselves about the importance of a properly tuned bow and good arrow flight. They'll send an arrow at the first sight of a target animal because in their mind they don't need to worry about range because their arrow shoots fast and flat and their broadhead flies like a field point. These are the people who can not understand why we shoot heavier setups and are most likely the ones who get insulted listening to the RF.

I've said this in previous posts and I'll say it here, watch for a post or two during the 2022 hunting season of anyone asking the forum to help analyze a shot on game that they took to see if it was a kill as the blood trail was lost, or there was none or it was a bad hit or whatever. When that post does come and it will, I want you to ask the user what was the arrow weight and broadhead used. You probably wont get a response which is confirmation that he knows that his setup that has always worked in the past wasn't built for plan "B" and it bit him in the azz. Then take note of how many posts are from heavy arrow users whose crappy shooting or animal moving at the shot doing the unexpected were amazed that the animal was still easily taken down and recovered.

One final question...

Has anyone else ever realized that the heavy arrow users don't care if someone is shooting lighter but the lighter shooters always trash talk the heavy shooters and feel the need to justify their choice of gear?
 
the light vs heavy "debate" and much of RF and all that is just a false dichotomy

like you're either a thick head of hair or totally bald



most have settled on a medium weight setup because it allows you good penetration and good trajectory out of a modern compound bow without going too far to either side....for some reason people get weird about the idea they are "compromising" in their setup....well most of the best decisions in life are a compromise among competing interests and tradeoffs
 
Last edited:
slonstdy said:
Has anyone else ever realized that the heavy arrow users don't care if someone is shooting lighter but the lighter shooters always trash talk the heavy shooters and feel the need to justify their choice of gear?
Click to expand...

I normally dont care unless I am helping a buddy track a deer we will never find because he uses expandable broodheads.
 
Lowg08 said:
I’ve read into the heavy arrow ideas. I’ve noticed something. The guy who pointed me towards heavy arrows is 72. He has shot heavy for awhile. I didn’t know who the ranch fairy was. Then I looked him up. Considering there has always been a light vs heavy camp. Why did it take an annoying obnoxious guy to make it a trending fad rather than experience from older hunters.
Click to expand...

At some point, bow and arrow technology improved and made lighter faster arrows effective at killing game at further distances. Then marketing and manufacturing competition spawned a speed race that left some using arrow weights that were probably on the light side and maybe outcomes suffered. Add to that the popularization of mechanicals (aka the devil, lol) by endorsed celebrity hunters like the Drurys.....

The advent of the Youtube platform provided an opportunity for unsponsored celebrity, and you got the Ranch Fairy arguing against one extreme with the other (longtime status quo). Because moderation isn't sexy.

That's not to take away from arguments one way or another. But maybe its a sorta summary.

It's important to recognize the equipment has changed. Very few older hunters stayed with their setups, because of issues they had too. In fact the improvements in technology led to a massive growth in bowhunter interest because effectiveness was more possible for the average jack. But, limits of new technology have been discovered as well. Knee jerk.

Technology is attempting to marry both philosophies and we'll end up with a better middle ground, I'm for it.
 
Last edited:
A lot of the current vitriol towards mechanicals is from old-hat gripes. Many of the mechanicals had a lot of issues in the 90's and even well into the 2000's. Not saying all, but a lot of the hatred is simply carried over from 20+ years ago. I know this well, and personally. Most of the brand-name mechs these days work shockingly well, and many don't even reduce penetration in any meaningful way as is commonly cited as a drawback (think swhacker and similar). There was a scientific study done on mech vs. fixed success rates not long ago. The mechs had a higher recovery rate. Link below.

I shoot both mech and fixed as the situation dictates. So not arguing that one is superior.

https://seafwa.org/journal/2014/com...iveness-fixed-blade-and-mechanical-broadheads
 
Plebe said:
At some point, bow and arrow technology improved and made lighter faster arrows effective at killing game at further distances. Then marketing and manufacturing competition spawned a speed race that left some using arrow weights that were probably on the light side and maybe outcomes suffered. Add to that the popularization of mechanicals (aka the devil, lol) by endorsed celebrity hunters like the Drurys.....

The advent of the Youtube platform provided an opportunity for unsponsored celebrity, and you got the Ranch Fairy arguing against one extreme with the other (longtime status quo). Because moderation isn't sexy.

That's not to take away from arguments one way or another. But maybe its a sorta summary.

It's important to recognize the equipment has changed. Very few older hunters stayed with their setups, because of issues they had too. In fact the improvements in technology led to a massive growth in bowhunter interest because effectiveness was more possible for the average jack. But, limits of new technology have been discovered as well. Knee jerk.

Technology is attempting to marry both philosophies and we'll end up with a better middle ground, I'm for it.
Click to expand...

i guess in politics it's called the 'overton window'.....the area which is considered mainstream....which shifts over time

in archery, we have something similar with arrow weight

i think that folks that follow ranch fairy actually think that a 450 grain arrow out of a 60 lbs bow is a light setup

so, when we say light, medium, or heavy......i think different folks are talking about totally different things

i define mid weight arrow as probably 420 to 550 grains
 
Spartan said:
A lot of the current vitriol towards mechanicals is from old-hat gripes. Many of the mechanicals had a lot of issues in the 90's and even well into the 2000's. Not saying all, but a lot of the hatred is simply carried over from 20+ years ago. I know this well, and personally. Most of the brand-name mechs these days work shockingly well, and many don't even reduce penetration in any meaningful way as is commonly cited as a drawback (think swhacker and similar). There was a scientific study done on mech vs. fixed success rates not long ago. The mechs had a higher recovery rate. Link below.

I shoot both mech and fixed as the situation dictates. So not arguing that one is superior.

https://seafwa.org/journal/2014/com...iveness-fixed-blade-and-mechanical-broadheads
Click to expand...

yeah, folks are still thinking punchcutter when something like a sevr probably penetrates better than some fixed and is tougher also
 
raisins said:
.....i define mid weight arrow as probably 420 to 550 grains
Click to expand...

My defintion of what I refer to as mid/standard/hunting weight is 400-500gn. Anything below and I consider it light, anything above and I consider it heavy. So quite close to yours. Subjective, of course. Everyone's will be different. But it can be helpful to have metrics to go off of.
 
I just like fixed blades. Just me. Never even tried allot of them. Just prefer fixed. I like a two blade but honestly I really like an OG muzzy too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top