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Another saddle accident

cjr4497 said:
I knew more and more accidents were going to happen saddle hunting. It is only going to get worse from here on out given the popularity. More are going to get killed too. I studied for well over a year before I attempted to saddle hunt. The more I studied the more I recognized that this style is not for everyone like it is advertised. The more you learn the more scared you should be. What you see arborists and climbers teach compared to what you see saddle guys do on youtube is frightening. Onesticking is probably the worst offender. Tiny 8mm ropes in the hands of beginners with mechanical devices is not cool. I won't use a screw gate carabiner. Mine are all name brand autolocking.

I am no safety saint by any means. I make my own tethers, linemen's belts, aiders, and soft shackles because I am not paying the ridiculous prices online. I trust my own work over someone in a hurry. I know everything I make is lock stitched properly, has the correct burry length, and is tapered properly. I even whiplock the ends of my ropes for the heck of it. I use 11mm rope mainly and won't go smaller than 10mm. I make my aiders and stick ropes out of 1/4" chinese HMWPE. Again, built correctly and properly lock stitched. This is much safer than 7/64" or 1/8" branded offerings. I have seen braid that size wear out and cut prematurely in other applications and refuse to use it. I think it is crazy for a company to offer anything smaller than 3/16" to the public. Heck, there was a thread I saw the other day where a kid had his 7/64" aider cut on the first use! He didn't tie it on properly, but that still shouldn't have happened. It just shows that size braid shouldn't be used for an aider or tree rope. What the hell is the point of going that small?! You gain nothing and could lose everything.

It would be nice if the saddle industry got together and formed something like the TMA (Treestand Manufacturing Association), and offered some basic safety info like in every other recreation where you life is at risk. I would take the course or review the documents every year. It needs to happen.
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You said one sticking is the worst offender. I don't see your point. Anytime you climb a tree I don't care if your saddle hunting or your do one sticking or your using a treestand there's risk involved. If done safely and carefully it done with no problems. I don't recall anyone being injured or killed one sticking using the proper equipment.
 
There are a whole lot of assumptions and blame being placed on both individuals and companies in this thread with very little information actually known and no concrete proof to support any of it other than the fact that he fell. Personally, I am incredibly skeptical of the claim that a carabiner just "broke", especially if there was no fall. Suspicious that the post is gone, suspicious that no photos of the faulty device in question were provided.
 
BackSpasm said:
There are a whole lot of assumptions and blame being placed on both individuals and companies in this thread with very little information actually known and no concrete proof to support any of it other than the fact that he fell. Personally, I am incredibly skeptical of the claim that a carabiner just "broke", especially if there was no fall. Suspicious that the post is gone, suspicious that no photos of the faulty device in question were provided.
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What's the over under he's an old fat guy? Or that an old fat guy made the component?

I kid.

Hope he's ok. It'd be nice to know the facts.
 
Apex7 said:
You said one sticking is the worst offender. I don't see your point. Anytime you climb a tree I don't care if your saddle hunting or your do one sticking or your using a treestand there's risk involved. If done safely and carefully it done with no problems. I don't recall anyone being injured or killed one sticking using the proper equipment.
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One sticking puts slack in your system on every move. Most demonstrations don't even show the use of a linemen's belt when climbing using this method. Some even climb above their attachment point when one sticking. That is my point. If you fall above your attachment point or on more than 6" of slack good luck especially if you are attached via mechanical ascender on an 8mm rope.
 
Went ahead and ordered a pair of Kong Ergo to ditch my Tethrd biners. Maybe Tethrd should have stuck with saddles only, or at least until they could manufacture domestically.

I liked the idea of saddle hunting given my limited experience in rock climbing verses the inherent wobble of back attached fall arrest systems.

I'm beginning to feel more like Dan Infalt about these companies who outsource their manufacturing so they can deliver products at a profit, with the margins being safety and workers.

You know what nevermind, it's too darn big for a forum thread...

Be safe y'all, use legit rock climbing gear and get some training, be prepared.
 
Fuse Dude said:
Went ahead and ordered a pair of Kong Ergo to ditch my Tethrd biners. Maybe Tethrd should have stuck with saddles only, or at least until they could manufacture domestically.

I liked the idea of saddle hunting given my limited experience in rock climbing verses the inherent wobble of back attached fall arrest systems.

I'm beginning to feel more like Dan Infalt about these companies who outsource their manufacturing so they can deliver products at a profit, with the margins being safety and workers.

You know what nevermind, it's too darn big for a forum thread...

Be safe y'all, use legit rock climbing gear and get some training, be prepared.
Click to expand...

Separate from knowing whether or not there actually was an equipment failure,..

Does Tethrd actually make their biners? Do they come with literature?

All I see on the website is

C0907628-88F2-4BF1-9C1C-1CA1FF06A957.png
 
Plebe said:
Separate from knowing whether or not there actually was an equipment failure,..

Does Tethrd actually make their biners? Do they come with literature?

All I see on the website is

View attachment 73024
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My linesman's belts w carabiners didn't have any literature, and most of their equipment literature is fairly basic, ref Skeletors

I can't say if they manufacture. I'm an ignorant consumer, except rock climbing gear is generally yelling at you about" who, how and what they do".
 
TommyDee said:
th It would be nice if the saddle industry got together and formed something like the TMA (Treestand Manufacturing Association), and offered some basic safety info like in every other recreation where you life is at risk. I would take the course or review the documents every year. It needs to happen.
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Maybe the vendors on here can organize?
[/QUOTE]
IMHO something like this needs to happen in general. Saddle hunting has grown too quickly without any regulations to reign it in. And more importantly it needs to be organized by someone other than the vendors. Asking the vendors to do this would be like asking a recovering alcoholic to go pick up your booze at the liquor store. It needs to be independent to have the intended purpose.
 
redsquirrel said:
Maybe the vendors on here can organize?
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IMHO something like this needs to happen in general. Saddle hunting has grown too quickly without any regulations to reign it in. And more importantly it needs to be organized by someone other than the vendors. Asking the vendors to do this would be like asking a recovering alcoholic to go pick up your booze at the liquor store. It needs to be independent to have the intended purpose.
[/QUOTE]
I hear you but at the same time I hear that voice that says...I'm from the government, I'm here to help. And I literally work for the gubmint. LOL
 
BTaylor said:
IMHO something like this needs to happen in general. Saddle hunting has grown too quickly without any regulations to reign it in. And more importantly it needs to be organized by someone other than the vendors. Asking the vendors to do this would be like asking a recovering alcoholic to go pick up your booze at the liquor store. It needs to be independent to have the intended purpose.
Click to expand...
I hear you but at the same time I hear that voice that says...I'm from the government, I'm here to help. And I literally work for the gubmint. LOL
[/QUOTE]
We won't get into politics but there is a fine line between people needing to be told what to do to reign things in and overdoing it. But if you have nothing then it is a free for all.
 
I doubt the Tethrd Carabiner is a problem, but you never know. These videos are interesting. I still wouldn't knowingly use a Chinese carabiner though.


 
So, it is interesting to read about these recent events. I would love to know some basic information
Time in the woods as a saddle hunter?
Did they go from "zero" to "hero" and unpack their gear, throw it together, and run into the woods.
Do they practice in the off season, or just pull it out and go?
Do they do basic safety inspections before entering the woods?

Care of your gear is something you really need to pay attention to, especially with the stress we put on this stuff. I am a firefighter and have taken some rope rescue classes. I still go out and mess around in my back yard with climbing. In the fire department, we inspect our gear monthly. We inspect our ropes for any fray, color, etc. and if it is placed under any type of shock, it is taken out of service and replaced (example for us would be falling and shocking the rope).....

People, the one thing you need to do is take the extra minute at the bottom of the tree to make sure you are right. I see somewhere that they said the lock wasn't engaged. That to me is a person who is rushing to get up the tree, and not making sure they are right before starting to ascend.
 
It's simple, but expensive to ascribe prescribe and subscribe to let's say ASTM standards, however the rock climbing and arborists industry have "jurisdiction" and should be readly able to adapt this for the hunting industry. There are stitching and material strength requirements the mom and pops may not be able to stomach and they'll take the sit drag route.

That b.s. aside, it's a new a likely a voluntary costs passed to the consumer, until the consumer forces the industry to move.
 
I don't do anything of this sort without careful consideration, however, it may be a good point for most (if overkill) to see what rope-access and climbing arborists subscribe to and utilize...

It's a sad to see this come to the point that it has, but with people being people, it honestly was/is inevitable... I personally have recommended against certain unsafe practices to people that continue to try to save that dollar... DIY is not necessarily bad, IF you're qualified and knowledgeable.

It will always be the individual's responsibility to assess and choose risk levels, that being said, climbing is inherently dangerous... So be knowledgeable, competent, and safe out there, people!
 
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The first year when Tethrd first started I bought a whole package from them, biners, ropes, saddle etc. All the biners were Black Diamond Brand with all of the safety literature packaged with each biner. I"m still using them. I have others but have used these without fail. When they get a little squeaky I put drops of mineral oil on the gate closer barrel.
 
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