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Another saddle accident

Kayl said:
Looks the post is gone. I read it when it went up. Tethrd carabineer that the guy didn't lock. He fell when he went to pull up his bow. He's claiming carabineer gate failure. I'm a little skeptical based on his admission that the carabineer wasn't locked...
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Curious if OP deleted it or someone else with a vested interest in the company
 
rhagenw said:
Someone more experienced then me should start a thread that speaks about inspecting gear life span and amount of cycles.
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This channel on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/HowNOT2/videos while about slackline/rockclimbing has lots of relevant info particularly in their testing to failure of slings/ropes/carabiners etc. which imho is directly transferable.

Without knowing the details of this circumstance - I'd offer these thoughts for consideration:

Do you understand the physics of the loads you're putting on your gear?
Do you understand the loads your gear is rated for?
Do you know how to avoid circumstances that will apply a load in excess of your gear's capabilities?

If the answer to any of these questions is no, going aloft is a bad idea.
 
Kayl said:
Looks the post is gone. I read it when it went up. Tethrd carabineer that the guy didn't lock. He fell when he went to pull up his bow. He's claiming carabineer gate failure. I'm a little skeptical based on his admission that the carabineer wasn't locked...
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guy probably doesn't want to take responsibility/wants money.....and doesn't know enough to realize how easily unlocked carabiners can open, especially if you just randomly clip them
 
Life safety is priceless. I see so many youtubers trying to “budget build” ways to climb and hunt. If youre gunna be cheap on life safety then you reap what you sew. Theres just certain things that should never be “budget” like life safety anything. Bc you know who cant spend all the dollars saved, you when your dead from falling or a vegetable. Seem harsh? I promise it hurts less than the ground. As far as this story, its operator error id bet my paychecks on it. Slow is smooth and smooth is fast. To add a little about life span. If never dynamicly loaded carabiner they can and will last decades, if you ever fall on it, inspect for smooth operation and either replace or keep using. NEVER USE A BINER WITHOUT KN MARKINGS. Ropes i inspect night before every hunt and only use for no more than 3-5 yrs depending on wear. Best practice is to take the time to be ann educated user, know what to inspect and inspect what you expect. When i was in a climber id replace my harness every other season. Remember murphys law, if it can, it will happen. Everytime you do something inherently dangerous no matter what you do you raise your chances of something going wrong, act accordingly. Just my .02
 
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Ckwilli said:
I’m not trying to argue or disagree but I would like someone to define “reasonable.” I’ve been told this many times and that’s exactly what made me try to diy my setup. I saw reasonable as what a decent hang on stand would cost because that’s what I was replacing. Now reasonable for someone else may be $500 or more. I could never get in on a used saddle because 1) cost and 2) they get snatched up pretty quickly. So what I came up with was “reasonable “ for me but obviously almost got me hurt. I think we owe it to ourselves, and the community, to be more deliberate in discussing gear and gear life.
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Perhaps you should start with defining "decent" hang on. Reasonable is relative. You can spend $100 - $500 for a hang on tree stand. The same could be said for a set of climbing sticks, a climbing tree stand and even a ground blind. Whatever option you choose, you can spend a varying degree of cash. The point is, a "decent" saddle can be had for as little as $200 or maybe less if you are resourceful. Yes, you need a tether, and a lineman rope, but those are not expensive. A high quality carabiner can be had for ~$25.00. You don't have to have a rope man, a safeguard, a rapel rope, etc. If you focus on the basic primary necessary components, they can be had "reasonably" especially if you are resourceful by paying attention to classifieds, off season sales, etc. And NOT compromise safety. More importantly becoming knowledgeable of quality components, such as proper rope types, certified/rated carabiners, etc. will enable you to purchase the proper life safety items the first time.

If you really add up the cost for a decent hang on and decent safety harness, you aren't far off from a decent saddle. I don't care what method you use, we all have to work within our budget. But that doesn't mean we have to compromise safety.
 
My 2 cents... If your carabiner didn't come with a manual, don't use it for life support.

Even Black Diamond wire carabiners I've picked up for $5.95 have legit, unfold for a crapton of info, manuals. (I'm not recommending wire carabiners for life support; stick with me :smiley:).

Depending on the composition, how you use, store, clean, and maintain it can drastically affect its serviceability and life span!

How many of us regularly check to see if our model/batch# has a recall on it? Make that part of your regular inspection (per the manual) and actually write in the provided log. When did you start using it? When did you last inspect it? Yeah, I know, this is supposed to be all fun; what did we get ourselves into? :tonguewink:

Do you live by the Ocean? Do you know how that impacts the lifespan of your equipment? Forums can give you pointers and general guidelines but please read your equipment manuals and fully understand the variables at play here.


What is this weird box I'm standing on? "SOAPBOX"???... Excuse me while I go ask my wife what this is
 
KYRanger said:
Perhaps you should start with defining "decent" hang on. Reasonable is relative. You can spend $100 - $500 for a hang on tree stand. The same could be said for a set of climbing sticks, a climbing tree stand and even a ground blind. Whatever option you choose, you can spend a varying degree of cash. The point is, a "decent" saddle can be had for as little as $200 or maybe less if you are resourceful. Yes, you need a tether, and a lineman rope, but those are not expensive. A high quality carabiner can be had for ~$25.00. You don't have to have a rope man, a safeguard, a rapel rope, etc. If you focus on the basic primary necessary components, they can be had "reasonably" especially if you are resourceful by paying attention to classifieds, off season sales, etc. And NOT compromise safety. More importantly becoming knowledgeable of quality components, such as proper rope types, certified/rated carabiners, etc. will enable you to purchase the proper life safety items the first time.

If you really add up the cost for a decent hang on and decent safety harness, you aren't far off from a decent saddle. I don't care what method you use, we all have to work within our budget. But that doesn't mean we have to compromise safety.
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To me a descent hang on would be in the $100 range and sometimes even less. There are plenty of climbers/ hang ons in the used marketplace. As for sticks and a harness I have those. The difference between a stand and a saddle being that a person could pick up a used hang on or climber relatively easy. The classifieds here, to quote another member, are pretty robust. It’s supply and demand and I get it. Again I’m not complaining I’m just saying it pushed me to try and DIY too much. It wasn’t that long ago that sourcing good rope was a challenge too. These are factors that need to be taken into account when looking at saddle safety. I messed up, I tried to go cheap to get in on the trend. Thankfully I recognized it and didn’t get hurt. I just wished someone would have told me to stop.
 
Empostarr said:
I bought my tether and lineman's belt from Tethrd when I first got into saddle hunting. The screw gate on one of those carabiners (kind of a rose gold color with a gold gate) started acting up and screwing past the stop point. I've since replaced all biners I got from that order with Petzl biners (with the red open indicator) and retired those Tethrd ones to non-life supporting uses. It freaked me out since I couldn't tell who the manufacturer was and that it so quickly had issues. Being so many people are getting into saddles, and people being cheap, who knows what could have happened here!
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Did the same. Really like the Petzl carabiners.
 
Ckwilli said:
I hear ya on being cheap, I’ve done it. One of the reasons I’ve backed off. I just didn’t feel safe with my setup so I called it off. I gave in to the YouTube peer pressure and cut corners to get in a tree as quick and inexpensive as I could. I had a guy on a YouTube channel tell me saddle hunting was worth the expense to do it. I feel we should be telling people it’s worth the expense if you can afford safe gear. I’m afraid with the cost of saddles, supply issues, and an influx of cheap gear this will become a trend.
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I think the you tube pressure and the marketing push from certain companies for saddles has been real and its like selling cars pressure. Lol
People who are new to saddles really should make that decision into purchasing or trying a saddle during post season.
Theres a definite learning curve with saddles
I believe some watch videos or get talked into getting into trying saddle hunting by a friend or family member, which is great for the growth of the saddle hunting community.
The thing is most cant just jump right into it and be comfortable.
Practicejust like we do shooting Practice and study how things works, Practice a preferred setup style, and Practice shooting and moving with a saddle.
These listed are things i believe a-lot of new to saddles are not doing.
If i was new to saddles i would never watch a how to video from a saddle company.
They are going to do everything they can to coach you into a sale.
One company cracks me up because they sound like car salesmen trying to sell a 20 year old lemon.
I would be watching several different small channels and see different ways in how to do things.
Practice Practice then Practice some more
Just my two cents.
oh yea and if i were new i would practice and practice alot. Lol
 
I knew more and more accidents were going to happen saddle hunting. It is only going to get worse from here on out given the popularity. More are going to get killed too. I studied for well over a year before I attempted to saddle hunt. The more I studied the more I recognized that this style is not for everyone like it is advertised. The more you learn the more scared you should be. What you see arborists and climbers teach compared to what you see saddle guys do on youtube is frightening. Onesticking is probably the worst offender. Tiny 8mm ropes in the hands of beginners with mechanical devices is not cool. I won't use a screw gate carabiner. Mine are all name brand autolocking.

I am no safety saint by any means. I make my own tethers, linemen's belts, aiders, and soft shackles because I am not paying the ridiculous prices online. I trust my own work over someone in a hurry. I know everything I make is lock stitched properly, has the correct burry length, and is tapered properly. I even whiplock the ends of my ropes for the heck of it. I use 11mm rope mainly and won't go smaller than 10mm. I make my aiders and stick ropes out of 1/4" chinese HMWPE. Again, built correctly and properly lock stitched. This is much safer than 7/64" or 1/8" branded offerings. I have seen braid that size wear out and cut prematurely in other applications and refuse to use it. I think it is crazy for a company to offer anything smaller than 3/16" to the public. Heck, there was a thread I saw the other day where a kid had his 7/64" aider cut on the first use! He didn't tie it on properly, but that still shouldn't have happened. It just shows that size braid shouldn't be used for an aider or tree rope. What the hell is the point of going that small?! You gain nothing and could lose everything.

It would be nice if the saddle industry got together and formed something like the TMA (Treestand Manufacturing Association), and offered some basic safety info like in every other recreation where you life is at risk. I would take the course or review the documents every year. It needs to happen.
 
Ckwilli said:
To me a descent hang on would be in the $100 range and sometimes even less. There are plenty of climbers/ hang ons in the used marketplace. As for sticks and a harness I have those. The difference between a stand and a saddle being that a person could pick up a used hang on or climber relatively easy. The classifieds here, to quote another member, are pretty robust. It’s supply and demand and I get it. Again I’m not complaining I’m just saying it pushed me to try and DIY too much. It wasn’t that long ago that sourcing good rope was a challenge too. These are factors that need to be taken into account when looking at saddle safety. I messed up, I tried to go cheap to get in on the trend. Thankfully I recognized it and didn’t get hurt. I just wished someone would have told me to stop.
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Someone did.. you. YOU are responsible for your own safety, not YT or anyone on this forum, or any FB group . YOU suffered the consequences of not wanting to spend the extra $$. Whining about a lack of gear for sale in the forum doesn’t hold any water. I’ve seen quite a few good deals in the last 2 years, $200 & less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
th It would be nice if the saddle industry got together and formed something like the TMA (Treestand Manufacturing Association), and offered some basic safety info like in every other recreation where you life is at risk. I would take the course or review the documents every year. It needs to happen.
[/QUOTE]

THIS. Not saying this accident is their fault, but Tethered is the biggest, they should step up. If they won’t, who’s next in line? Maybe the vendors on here can organize?

I still like screw gates over auto locks which I find too noisy. I have the muscle memory to always close as soon as I attach. My thumbs just do this like autopilot. Even if hanging a pack from a gear strap, where leaving unlocked would be more efficient, a biner never attaches something without the gate being closed. I think I learned this when I was belaying my daughter indoor climbing, so again, it’s a habit most people won’t learn, because no basic saddlehunting safety course exists.
 
Nchunter1989 said:
Someone did.. you. YOU are responsible for your own safety, not YT or anyone on this forum, or any FB group . YOU suffered the consequences of not wanting to spend the extra $$. Whining about a lack of gear for sale in the forum doesn’t hold any water. I’ve seen quite a few good deals in the last 2 years, $200 & less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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Wait. Did you just say I was whining? I admitted my mistakes in the attempt to prevent someone else from going down the same road. Really? Why do you have to go there?
 
Ckwilli said:
To me a descent hang on would be in the $100 range and sometimes even less. There are plenty of climbers/ hang ons in the used marketplace. As for sticks and a harness I have those. The difference between a stand and a saddle being that a person could pick up a used hang on or climber relatively easy. The classifieds here, to quote another member, are pretty robust. It’s supply and demand and I get it. Again I’m not complaining I’m just saying it pushed me to try and DIY too much. It wasn’t that long ago that sourcing good rope was a challenge too. These are factors that need to be taken into account when looking at saddle safety. I messed up, I tried to go cheap to get in on the trend. Thankfully I recognized it and didn’t get hurt. I just wished someone would have told me to stop.
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Only YOU can decide what you want to spend on life safety gear. If you want to cheap out, you certainly have that prerogative, but it's on you. Your safety is unquestionably up to you.
 
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