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Woodsmanship skills

This is really what I was hoping we could zero in on. Some great responses so far but let's keep digging in. I agree there are folks that just seem to be born with the ability to see stuff in the woods others dont. But I think we can all pick up and learn similarly applicable skills. I think it boils down to one question, why? Why did that person see what they saw? Or more applicable to me, why did that deer take that trail, feed in that area, etc. Obviously we can all ask the why about things we observe deer doing then move to that spot or area and sort out the details, at least a lot of the time.

I guess this is where we may disagree. You seem to think this is mostly software that can be taken on board to make one a better hunter. I’m saying that it’s mostly hardware, and that if your maker didn’t give you the turbo, no amount of learnin to drive is going to change how fast you go.

What we are all blessed with, if we can set aside our pride, is the ability to recognize this. And then be realistic about applying that recognition. That’s where my advice comes from.

I can teach certain things to certain people certain times under certain circumstances. We all have the choice to not hunt unless it’s worth huntin. It doesn’t require knowledge or skills. Just honesty with yourself. Which, I guess, is a skill like any other haha.
 
Curious to learn what woodsmanship skills you use that you attribute your deer hunting success too. Maybe share your top 2 or 3 but also share how you apply or correlate the woodsmanship skills to the tactics you use to kill. It would also be helpful to know what type of area you hunt topographically, hills, mountains, Ag country, river bottoms, etc.
Great question. I hunt public, farm country, bluffs and private in Wisconsin. I think woodsmanship is paying attention to the woods your hunting. To be a consistent successful deer hunter takes time and woodsmanship. Usually years.

Scouting for me has paid off big dividends. Boots on the ground. I scout all spring here after snow melt. The rut sign from last year has been preserved for getting setups for next season. Plus sheds can be found. I’m a firm believer first sit in a stand is the best chance for success. Keeping hunting logs will always help you be a better woodsman.
My woodsmanship education is never ending. That’s why it’s so much fun!
 
I guess this is where we may disagree. You seem to think this is mostly software that can be taken on board to make one a better hunter. I’m saying that it’s mostly hardware, and that if your maker didn’t give you the turbo, no amount of learnin to drive is going to change how fast you go.

What we are all blessed with, if we can set aside our pride, is the ability to recognize this. And then be realistic about applying that recognition. That’s where my advice comes from.

I can teach certain things to certain people certain times under certain circumstances. We all have the choice to not hunt unless it’s worth huntin. It doesn’t require knowledge or skills. Just honesty with yourself. Which, I guess, is a skill like any other haha.
I agree with you almost entirely. I do think there are a good bit of very valuable woodsmanship skills that can be learned by most. There are some folks that like you say are just born seeing things the rest of us just cant. Just like there are some folks that would be happy frying the breast off the goose that laid golden eggs, some folks cant be taught a thing. Learning and understand browse species, learning and understanding air movements, those are things everyone has to learn through instruction and/or observation. Those aspects are what I am hoping to focus on not the guy that says "you need to hang right here cause a buck is going to walk right there" and then it happens. I have hunted with those guys and when I looked around, there was nothing apparent to me why they would say that. When I asked why, the answer was because that's where I would walk if I was a deer. Occasionally I see a spot that I recognize like that but it is the exception, not the rule. For them it is just the way they see the woods. Because I cant see that always, I want to hone and refine all of the skills I can that correlate to what those folks just naturally see.
 
I agree with you almost entirely. I do think there are a good bit of very valuable woodsmanship skills that can be learned by most. There are some folks that like you say are just born seeing things the rest of us just cant. Just like there are some folks that would be happy frying the breast off the goose that laid golden eggs, some folks cant be taught a thing. Learning and understand browse species, learning and understanding air movements, those are things everyone has to learn through instruction and/or observation. Those aspects are what I am hoping to focus on not the guy that says "you need to hang right here cause a buck is going to walk right there" and then it happens. I have hunted with those guys and when I looked around, there was nothing apparent to me why they would say that. When I asked why, the answer was because that's where I would walk if I was a deer. Occasionally I see a spot that I recognize like that but it is the exception, not the rule. For them it is just the way they see the woods. Because I cant see that always, I want to hone and refine all of the skills I can that correlate to what those folks just naturally see.
Some of us were just raised in the woods as well, I’ve hunted with a lot of different people over the years, and you would be amazed at some of the things folks have never learned or experienced before, contrary to what I was doing as a child, no joke, when being in the woods is part of your entire life and not just weekends for a couple months a year, well that’s huge. Observing game all year, cruising woods, and in all sorts of weather….these are all just normal activities when your life is being in the woods versus some folks, I’m scared to death of driving through any major city or large crowds of people… drop me off in the middle of nowheres in complete darkness and I’m in my element, I never had video games growing up, I was 11 when I got my first coon hound and single shot shotgun, being out alone all night in the woods chasing my dog and walking with some cheap flashlight, half the time it was dead, no gps or cell phone, experiencing all mother nature has to offer, spending time like this in the woods when growing up, and doing it almost everyday, this is what separates some of those like you are referencing above from others, that is my opinion, and I bet if you were to seriously pick one of those guys brains as to why he thinks game uses this trail versus whatever, they would have a hard time explaining it, maybe not, but in my experience, from the sample of guys I have lugged around through the woods over the years most are concerned with reaping the benefits of a positive end result than experiencing the pain and mistakes that come with learning those skills that take years to master, it just doesn’t work that way.
 
These are just my thoughts, and they're worth what you all paid for them.

Qualifiers; they're the thoughts of a 29 year old who has killed 51 deer. Most of them since he turned 18. Lower middle class. Deep, deep south. Homeschooled. So young, poor, and dumb. But literate.

When I think woodsmanship, I think of a romanticized set of skills made popular by 18th and 19th century armchair adventurers, that are no longer useful to 21st century hunters if they ever in fact existed. Natty Bumpo looking at the dirt and telling you a buck walked by 2 days ago sort of stuff. I think on some level a lot of hunters have the idea that there is a lost and subtle art of some sort and if they can learn it they'll be able to see the unseen.

I've had no such luck with that. I rely on modern technology (GPS, compass, field guides, plant ID apps, etc), a layman's understanding of modern science (particularly ecology and evolutionary biology), and a conscious effort to "see what is."

Folks on this forum by and large have no problem embracing modern technology. I think some folks get way too hung up on it, but that's another jibber-jabber session. Science is something I see less embracing of. A lot of hunters rely on anecdotal evidence to form their theories of deer behavior. I think that's a mistake. I try to take the reductionist, materialist, deterministic view of deer. Organisms in an environment with trying their best to replicate.

Learning to disregard most information out there and hone in on sources that make use of organized collection and comparison of data was huge for me. I'm a big fan of Dr. Sheppard's work, MSU Deer Lab, Charles Alsheimer, Leonard Lee Rue, and our very own @WHW, who I consider a citizen-scientist extraordinaire since he has meticulously documented decades of kills (over 500, I believe) and came to conclusions based on a broad-level analysis of that (small, but useful) database. I would much rather hear a field biologist talk about deer behavior than a hunter. Hunters are also usually story-tellers, and story-tellers fill in the gaps of knowledge to make stories. They see more than just what is.

This is not a particularly popular or fun idea for a lot of people. It's an opinion, but a studied opinion that there is precious little useful information available to deer hunters, and it usually comes from people trained in the sciences. At best, a lot of info (including the stuff I put out) is a more-or-less accurate diluted tertiary source with its root in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

I'd say the most valuable "woodsmanship" skill is to think of deer as simple organisms seeking to replicate, and learn to see the relationships between them and the rest of their environment. Simplify them.

This ties into "seeing what is." It's the opposite of "seeing the unseen." The problem with the unseen is that it usually exists only in your head. Deer don't do half the things some people convince themselves they do. They don't analyze the wind. They don't walk in water to hide their tracks. They don't send does ahead to scout territory. They don't move according to the lunar phase. They do consume calories, avoid predators, and urgently attempt to procreate.

I started killing way more deer when I started looking for deer instead of deer sign, hunter sign, terrain features, etc. My current though process when scouting is:

"Do you see deer here?"

"No."

"Do you see anything that indicates a deer is certain to be here later during daylight hours?"

"No."

"Ok. Let's keep looking then."

Don't try to invent reasons for deer to be in a place. They're corporeal creatures, and they leave physical indicators of their presence that you are quite capable of seeing with very little effort. If you don't see it when you look for it (assuming you know what to look for...which is where the scientific reading comes in) then it's probably not there.

Most hunters draw conclusions too quickly and with too little evidence, and suffer deerless sits. They're hunting a conceptual deer, that lives solely in their mind and the minds of other hunters, and who does all sorts of interesting things in there...but who has no relation to the flesh-and-blood deer that's allergic to broadheads.

Again, just my thoughts. Worth what I charge.
 
My wife and I where on a hike in the UP last summer and I said look at that woodpecker, she said where… I said in the red maple between that cherry and white oak…. She then went on to tell me we have a lot of chapters in our book because we are both knowledgeable in the outdoors among other things and that’s makes us interesting people and people that sit in front of a Tv or have no hobbies have few chapters in their book which makes them boring people with uneventful lives compared to someone that is out and about learning about their surroundings. I read thru these comments and it seems like people here have a lot of chapters in their book. If only those boring people with no hobbies or adventures to learn from knew what they were missing…
 
When I comes to moving through the woods quietly I always think of this video for some reason.
Notice especially after it sees him how meticulous, thoughtful, and purposeful it places it feet so make as little noise as possible. I think about it often.
And try to look past the thought of that cat being the Arnold Schwarzenegger of cats and the fact it skipped head day
 
No matter where. Learn plants/tree species and what, if any, effect they have on deer. Are they used more at different times of the year than others?
Totally agree here. I had read deer don't like autumn olive, but I personally seen this year where they were hitting autumn olive to right before acorns started dropping.
 
My wife and I where on a hike in the UP last summer and I said look at that woodpecker, she said where… I said in the red maple between that cherry and white oak…. She then went on to tell me we have a lot of chapters in our book because we are both knowledgeable in the outdoors among other things and that’s makes us interesting people and people that sit in front of a Tv or have no hobbies have few chapters in their book which makes them boring people with uneventful lives compared to someone that is out and about learning about their surroundings. I read thru these comments and it seems like people here have a lot of chapters in their book. If only those boring people with no hobbies or adventures to learn from knew what they were missing…
Very well put. Chapters, I like that.
 
I guess this is where we may disagree. You seem to think this is mostly software that can be taken on board to make one a better hunter. I’m saying that it’s mostly hardware, and that if your maker didn’t give you the turbo, no amount of learnin to drive is going to change how fast you go.

What we are all blessed with, if we can set aside our pride, is the ability to recognize this. And then be realistic about applying that recognition. That’s where my advice comes from.

I can teach certain things to certain people certain times under certain circumstances. We all have the choice to not hunt unless it’s worth huntin. It doesn’t require knowledge or skills. Just honesty with yourself. Which, I guess, is a skill like any other haha.

I personally believe it is not a lack of innate physical hunting ability in people that is the issue. All of our ancestors had the ability to kill and collect game when their lives depended on it or we wouldn't be here. What I do agree with is that there is an extremely difficult to modify predisposition that you could call "hardware" but its your MINDSET. Having hunted with lots of friends who just don't "have it" to get to the next level beyond where they are, a common denominator is the willingness to care enough not just when a deer is in front of them, but at all times. Call it an obsessive personality, how they are wired etc, but I think you have to deeply care to consistently perform the little details like walking carefully, moving slowly, getting out of your comfort zone, analyzing sign, scouting deeper, exploring access etc. You can be interested or enjoy it, but it is very hard for most people to alter how much they allow DETAILS to matter. This is true not just in hunting but life. I think the ability to deeply invest and care about the details (however that looks for you whether it be habitat work, scouting, shooting, gear, etc) is the missing "it factor" that holds a lot of people back. It takes energy, time, and sacrifice to care enough to constantly improve and not be complacent. Frankly, for many its just not worth it.

The people who advance and become extremely successful killers of big deer UNANIMOUSLY care enough to focus on details. Whether that is habitat (Mark Drury), Buck Patterning (Andy May), bedding (Infant), Scent control (eberhart), deer behavior (sheppard, womack), Shooting (Morgan), trail cams (Seek One), Adapting on the fly (THP) etc, it is the willingness to pay attention and rebuff complacency to move up to the next level from comprehension to mastery that is, in my opinion, the key. If you stomp though the woods, ignore sign, climb up in your favorite ladder stand and shoot two deer at 100 yards with a gun a year, for a lot of people that is plenty of return for the effort they put in
 
I personally believe it is not a lack of innate physical hunting ability in people that is the issue. All of our ancestors had the ability to kill and collect game when their lives depended on it or we wouldn't be here. What I do agree with is that there is an extremely difficult to modify predisposition that you could call "hardware" but its your MINDSET. Having hunted with lots of friends who just don't "have it" to get to the next level beyond where they are, a common denominator is the willingness to care enough not just when a deer is in front of them, but at all times. Call it an obsessive personality, how they are wired etc, but I think you have to deeply care to consistently perform the little details like walking carefully, moving slowly, getting out of your comfort zone, analyzing sign, scouting deeper, exploring access etc. You can be interested or enjoy it, but it is very hard for most people to alter how much they allow DETAILS to matter. This is true not just in hunting but life. I think the ability to deeply invest and care about the details (however that looks for you whether it be habitat work, scouting, shooting, gear, etc) is the missing "it factor" that holds a lot of people back. It takes energy, time, and sacrifice to care enough to constantly improve and not be complacent. Frankly, for many its just not worth it.

The people who advance and become extremely successful killers of big deer UNANIMOUSLY care enough to focus on details. Whether that is habitat (Mark Drury), Buck Patterning (Andy May), bedding (Infant), Scent control (eberhart), deer behavior (sheppard, womack), Shooting (Morgan), trail cams (Seek One), Adapting on the fly (THP) etc, it is the willingness to pay attention and rebuff complacency to move up to the next level from comprehension to mastery that is, in my opinion, the key. If you stomp though the woods, ignore sign, climb up in your favorite ladder stand and shoot two deer at 100 yards with a gun a year, for a lot of people that is plenty of return for the effort they put in
Agreed. You don’t get in a car knowing how to drive it. Everyone has to learn how to hunt, you’re not just born that way. It’s the willingness to never stop learning.

You could say the same for trout fishing, some people are content thinking that trout season is two weeks in April, some people are knee deep in snow trying to keep ice off their lines catching 6” brookies in February.
 
I personally believe it is not a lack of innate physical hunting ability in people that is the issue. All of our ancestors had the ability to kill and collect game when their lives depended on it or we wouldn't be here. What I do agree with is that there is an extremely difficult to modify predisposition that you could call "hardware" but its your MINDSET. Having hunted with lots of friends who just don't "have it" to get to the next level beyond where they are, a common denominator is the willingness to care enough not just when a deer is in front of them, but at all times. Call it an obsessive personality, how they are wired etc, but I think you have to deeply care to consistently perform the little details

I think the last half of that paragraph is at odds with the first sentence.

"How you're wired" IS hardware. I agree sincerely that some people have obsessive personalities, and that it's probably genetic. I've tried to beat that trait out of myself, and have found it's easier to learn to live with it. Don't try crystal meth or visit the casino, learn to meditate, and sit motionless for 4 hours in the cold to shoot a deer when you can't manage the symptoms any longer.

I know plenty of hunters who don't empathize with that thought. They don't have the drive/obsession/bloodlust, so they're not going to make killers. Which is fine. Nothing wrong with killing a few deer in your lifetime here and there when it's pleasant and enjoying the coffee and company more than the chase.

I just wish folks would admit that's what they want. They'd be happier.
 
I think the last half of that paragraph is at odds with the first sentence.
I disagree, I am implying that most everyone has the innate physical ability to hunt (walk quietly, notice details, pick out patterns) and kill at a high level with the proper level of motivation mixed with available mentorship/information. However, without starvation as a consequence of failure, those who are consistent methodical killers have a different intrinsic motivation/obsession/drive/bloodlust that supersedes the need to just survive and drives them to care more about something that for most of us is closer to solving a riddle with antlers and meat as a prize than a trip to the grocery store when it comes down to it
 
These are just my thoughts, and they're worth what you all paid for them.

Qualifiers; they're the thoughts of a 29 year old who has killed 51 deer. Most of them since he turned 18. Lower middle class. Deep, deep south. Homeschooled. So young, poor, and dumb. But literate.

When I think woodsmanship, I think of a romanticized set of skills made popular by 18th and 19th century armchair adventurers, that are no longer useful to 21st century hunters if they ever in fact existed. Natty Bumpo looking at the dirt and telling you a buck walked by 2 days ago sort of stuff. I think on some level a lot of hunters have the idea that there is a lost and subtle art of some sort and if they can learn it they'll be able to see the unseen.

I've had no such luck with that. I rely on modern technology (GPS, compass, field guides, plant ID apps, etc), a layman's understanding of modern science (particularly ecology and evolutionary biology), and a conscious effort to "see what is."

Folks on this forum by and large have no problem embracing modern technology. I think some folks get way too hung up on it, but that's another jibber-jabber session. Science is something I see less embracing of. A lot of hunters rely on anecdotal evidence to form their theories of deer behavior. I think that's a mistake. I try to take the reductionist, materialist, deterministic view of deer. Organisms in an environment with trying their best to replicate.

Learning to disregard most information out there and hone in on sources that make use of organized collection and comparison of data was huge for me. I'm a big fan of Dr. Sheppard's work, MSU Deer Lab, Charles Alsheimer, Leonard Lee Rue, and our very own @WHW, who I consider a citizen-scientist extraordinaire since he has meticulously documented decades of kills (over 500, I believe) and came to conclusions based on a broad-level analysis of that (small, but useful) database. I would much rather hear a field biologist talk about deer behavior than a hunter. Hunters are also usually story-tellers, and story-tellers fill in the gaps of knowledge to make stories. They see more than just what is.

This is not a particularly popular or fun idea for a lot of people. It's an opinion, but a studied opinion that there is precious little useful information available to deer hunters, and it usually comes from people trained in the sciences. At best, a lot of info (including the stuff I put out) is a more-or-less accurate diluted tertiary source with its root in peer-reviewed scientific journals.

I'd say the most valuable "woodsmanship" skill is to think of deer as simple organisms seeking to replicate, and learn to see the relationships between them and the rest of their environment. Simplify them.

This ties into "seeing what is." It's the opposite of "seeing the unseen." The problem with the unseen is that it usually exists only in your head. Deer don't do half the things some people convince themselves they do. They don't analyze the wind. They don't walk in water to hide their tracks. They don't send does ahead to scout territory. They don't move according to the lunar phase. They do consume calories, avoid predators, and urgently attempt to procreate.

I started killing way more deer when I started looking for deer instead of deer sign, hunter sign, terrain features, etc. My current though process when scouting is:

"Do you see deer here?"

"No."

"Do you see anything that indicates a deer is certain to be here later during daylight hours?"

"No."

"Ok. Let's keep looking then."

Don't try to invent reasons for deer to be in a place. They're corporeal creatures, and they leave physical indicators of their presence that you are quite capable of seeing with very little effort. If you don't see it when you look for it (assuming you know what to look for...which is where the scientific reading comes in) then it's probably not there.

Most hunters draw conclusions too quickly and with too little evidence, and suffer deerless sits. They're hunting a conceptual deer, that lives solely in their mind and the minds of other hunters, and who does all sorts of interesting things in there...but who has no relation to the flesh-and-blood deer that's allergic to broadheads.

Again, just my thoughts. Worth what I charge.
That’s the pragmatic analysis Nutter and I agree with you. But there also is a romantic analysis. Not sure if I’d enjoy it as much as I do if it was a all simply just practical application of the habits and tendencies of simple biological creatures. There’s an emotional dimension to it that adds randomness and speculative thought which then ends up making animals more than what they mostly likely are. Thank God for that!! Can you imagine hunting without a little bit of whimsical hope and anticipation? The indigenous peoples assigned spiritual like traits to wildlife and they held them in high regard. Mostly because they were grateful for being able to survive another year in harsh conditions much like the animals they pursued. I think we need a little bit of all of that for a lifetime of enrichment in the natural world.
 
I like Saddlehunter because on any other forum this would be an argument, on this forum it is a conversation.

I truly believe some people are born hunters, it’s a piece of them they have and no matter the persons outcome in life it is a driving force and a need in their life to hunt. I also believe others strive to be hunters and are not so different in the outcomes and successes where the first instinctively has traits that help them succeed in a hunt and the latter that learns those traits. This isn’t to say either one doesn’t learn a few things along the way but even hundreds of years ago there was that one fella in the tribe that woke up early with a need to get up and go get game and that other fella had to be kicked out of bed by his ol lady to get her some breakfast.

I am lucky enough to be that first fella… however, I married the other fellas wife that kicks me out a bed to go get her breakfast
 
That’s the pragmatic analysis Nutter and I agree with you. But there also is a romantic analysis. Not sure if I’d enjoy it as much as I do if it was a all simply just practical application of the habits and tendencies of simple biological creatures. There’s an emotional dimension to it that adds randomness and speculative thought which then ends up making animals more than what they mostly likely are. Thank God for that!! Can you imagine hunting without a little bit of whimsical hope and anticipation? The indigenous peoples assigned spiritual like traits to wildlife and they held them in high regard. Mostly because they were grateful for being able to survive another year in harsh conditions much like the animals they pursued. I think we need a little bit of all of that for a lifetime of enrichment in the natural world.

Some folks do.

I happen to find the way things actually are, or to the limits of our measurement capabilities, appear, far more interesting and fascinating and awe inspiring than our made up human stories. The most mundane insignificant details, coupled with my intense curiosity, turn into universe tilting questions for me. We are lucky not only to live in this weird place, but we’re somewhat aware of it.

In regards to deer hunting, I don’t want to, or need to convince myself bucks wake up from their nap in a buck bedding area, and spend the afternoon in a staging area discussing the previous nights’ skirt chasing with each other, before moving out to the corn field for a snack.

Billions of years of evolution led to a deer bedding in thick cover, using its nose to navigate to food, and me tricking him into bow range. The amount of small incidents that led to that moment is staggering. I can’t help but be dumbstruck by the enormity of it all.

One of those stories is far more compelling to me.
 
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I like Saddlehunter because on any other forum this would be an argument, on this forum it is a conversation.

I truly believe some people are born hunters, it’s a piece of them they have and no matter the persons outcome in life it is a driving force and a need in their life to hunt. I also believe others strive to be hunters and are not so different in the outcomes and successes where the first instinctively has traits that help them succeed in a hunt and the latter that learns those traits. This isn’t to say either one doesn’t learn a few things along the way but even hundreds of years ago there was that one fella in the tribe that woke up early with a need to get up and go get game and that other fella had to be kicked out of bed by his ol lady to get her some breakfast.

I am lucky enough to be that first fella… however, I married the other fellas wife that kicks me out a bed to go get her breakfast
I must be more of a gatherer judging from the amount of hunting gear I've acquired over the years.:tearsofjoy:
 
That’s the pragmatic analysis Nutter and I agree with you. But there also is a romantic analysis. Not sure if I’d enjoy it as much as I do if it was a all simply just practical application of the habits and tendencies of simple biological creatures. There’s an emotional dimension to it that adds randomness and speculative thought which then ends up making animals more than what they mostly likely are. Thank God for that!! Can you imagine hunting without a little bit of whimsical hope and anticipation? The indigenous peoples assigned spiritual like traits to wildlife and they held them in high regard. Mostly because they were grateful for being able to survive another year in harsh conditions much like the animals they pursued. I think we need a little bit of all of that for a lifetime of enrichment in the natural world.
I see it a little differently.

The idea of the sun being a fiery chariot pulled though the sky by a magical man is an uninspired and barbaric explaining-away of ignorance compared the the realities of nuclear fusion and the movement of its satellites through the universe.

The stuff we make up is nowhere near as inspiring to me as reality is. The nuts and bolts of what a whitetail really is, is fascinating. It doesn't need a soul or animus or spirit or human consciousness. It has a four chambered stomach that allows it to chew cud and that uses microbes to convert inedible material into nutrients it can digest. It has horizontal pupils that rotate in their sockets so it can scan it's surroundings with its head down. It's been around longer than we have as far as we can tell. A good bit longer. You could make the argument that it's a superior life form, but even if you don't want to go that far, they're incredible.

Knowing them as truly as we can should only enhance our lives. Same goes for every other phenomenon in the universe. Truth is way more jaw-dropping than the stuff we hatch in our heads.
 
I disagree, I am implying that most everyone has the innate physical ability to hunt (walk quietly, notice details, pick out patterns) and kill at a high level with the proper level of motivation mixed with available mentorship/information. However, without starvation as a consequence of failure, those who are consistent methodical killers have a different intrinsic motivation/obsession/drive/bloodlust that supersedes the need to just survive and drives them to care more about something that for most of us is closer to solving a riddle with antlers and meat as a prize than a trip to the grocery store when it comes down to it

I think you both are talking about two specific types of people in this world. I know several of both variety. “Killer instinct” isn’t some kind of fairytale. I have witnessed it several times and it is simply amazing. People that literally can’t shoot targets yet consistently kill mature old bucks year after year even on unseen ground. Drive is a major part of it but it seems like there is just some type of inherent ability.
 
I think you both are talking about two specific types of people in this world. I know several of both variety. “Killer instinct” isn’t some kind of fairytale. I have witnessed it several times and it is simply amazing. People that literally can’t shoot targets yet consistently kill mature old bucks year after year even on unseen ground. Drive is a major part of it but it seems like there is just some type of inherent ability.
I think this is a good point, there is certainly something instinctual to it for some people that I may have downplayed.
 
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