Madrock Safeguard makes me uneasy

[enkriss]

I have been using the same safeguard for 4 years and have hundreds of rappels on the thing. No issue.

Not my picture.

That picture is a screenshot of a video someone posted on Facebook. His claim is the handle broke and he did a 20’ free fall. Which is BS because if the handle did break there it would lock. Worst case scenario he would be stranded till help arrived.

With that said I speculate he dropped the safeguard on a hard surface and fractured it. Went to yank the handle hard because the Oplux he was using squished down and jammed it up. Then the fracture he didn’t see let go. But he didn’t fall like he claimed.

 

[FrankNess14]

This photo makes me think about a few things as a newer sticker.

1. Always inspect your gear and trust your gear…until you can’t.
2. Never drop your stick to the ground always have attached to you when you repel.
3. Carry a figure 8 non-mechanical in your pouch.

What other stuff should I be thinking in this event? How did you get down?

Learn to use the munter and super munter. Works everywhere all the time with no additional equipment required.

Learn to 2TC or something similar to be able to relieve pressure on rappel line should something jam up or you find a knot you didn’t realize was there… You can use the ground end of the rappel line for this too if you have enough rope.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I have been using the same safeguard for 4 years and have hundreds of rappels on the thing. No issue.

Not my picture.

That picture is a screenshot of a video someone posted on Facebook. His claim is the handle broke and he did a 20’ free fall. Which is BS because if the handle did break there it would lock. Worst case scenario he would be stranded till help arrived.

With that said I speculate he dropped the safeguard on a hard surface and fractured it. Went to yank the handle hard because the Oplux he was using squished down and jammed it up. Then the fracture he didn’t see let go. But he didn’t fall like he claimed.

Not necessarily since there is no return spring to guarantee it returns to the closed position on its own without force applied to the brake line, after it’s been fully pulled open. That’s the point of the lifeguard and gri gri plus. The spring is to assist with handle returning to close without you having to apply braking force. The most likely outcome was he was coming down too quickly lost control of the brake line side of his rope and over torqued the handle. It would result in a fall although I would highly doubt it was 20’. Many hunters don’t even climb to 20’ to begin with. If he had already left his platform and started his descent, he was likely much lower by the time his event occurred. Although all of this is speculation since none of us were there.

 

[rutjr]

Not necessarily since there is no return spring to guarantee it returns to the closed position on its own without force applied to the brake line, after it’s been fully pulled open. That’s the point of the lifeguard and gri gri plus. The spring is to assist with handle returning to close without you having to apply braking force. The most likely outcome was he was coming down too quickly lost control of the brake line side of his rope and over torqued the handle. It would result in a fall although I would highly doubt it was 20’. Many hunters don’t even climb to 20’ to begin with. If he had already left his platform and started his descent, he was likely much lower by the time his event occurred. Although all of this is speculation since none of us were there.

I'm going to have to check this out.? I thought the direction of the rope through the device makes it lock. the handle forces the lock open to release. Release the handle and the device locks up.?

 

[enkriss]

Not necessarily since there is no return spring to guarantee it returns to the closed position on its own without force applied to the brake line, after it’s been fully pulled open. That’s the point of the lifeguard and gri gri plus. The spring is to assist with handle returning to close without you having to apply braking force. The most likely outcome was he was coming down too quickly lost control of the brake line side of his rope and over torqued the handle. It would result in a fall although I would highly doubt it was 20’. Many hunters don’t even climb to 20’ to begin with. If he had already left his platform and started his descent, he was likely much lower by the time his event occurred. Although all of this is speculation since none of us were there.

How is that? Panic mode on the safeguard you let go of the handle and you come to a stop. As long as there is downward force on the safeguard and an anchor. How would it possibly stick open?

 

[enkriss]

I'm going to have to check this out.? I thought the direction of the rope through the device makes it lock. the handle forces the lock open to release. Release the handle and the device locks up.?

Exactly correct. It doesn’t matter what orientation or slack is on the safeguard. As long as the rope is routed correctly it will hold the rope when weighted provided the rope used is in spec.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Ther

I'm going to have to check this out.? I thought the direction of the rope through the device makes it lock. the handle forces the lock open to release. Release the handle and the device locks up.?

There is a reason they say one hand must always be on the brake line. A very minute force causes the handle brake to engage. People that sit there hands free often complain about the rope inching back into the device. That is because the handle isn’t self assisted braking

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Exactly correct. It doesn’t matter what orientation or slack is on the safeguard. As long as the rope is routed correctly it will hold the rope when weighted provided the rope used is in spec.

You need to read up a little more that is not correct. It requires force applied to the brake line for the handle to fully engage the brake

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

How is that? Panic mode on the safeguard you let go of the handle and you come to a stop. As long as there is downward force on the safeguard and an anchor. How would it possibly stick open?

Madrock safeguard doesn’t have the spring assisted panic feature, the lifeguard does

 

[thedutchtouch]

ATC over Madrock...Why did I make the switch and how to make the ATC better than a Madrock?

Unrelated but always a fan of finding out a YouTuber I follow is on here. Thanks!

 

[Craft518]

I have done a few sits with the Madrock with no creep at all HOWEVER I do add a prussic hitch above the Madrock and clipped into the carabiner. On accent the Madrock tends the prussic, works well

 

[rutjr]

You need to read up a little more that is not correct. It requires force applied to the brake line for the handle to fully engage the brake

LOL I still haven't gone into the basement to check but I thought the handle is to disengage the brake, the weight of your body pulls the brake closed. I have never had my safeguard creep at all but my Grigri+ does.

 

[enkriss]

You need to read up a little more that is not correct. It requires force applied to the brake line for the handle to fully engage the brake

Sounds like you need to read up on them or maybe atleast use them so you can speak about how they work. The lifeguard spring keeps the cam from clenching the rope. You aren’t going to use the lifeguard to hang on a tether without it popping open. You don’t need to do anything for safeguard to grab the rope. The cam will clench the rope and not let go till you pull the lever to release the cam.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Sounds like you need to read up on them or maybe atleast use them so you can speak about how they work. The lifeguard spring keeps the cam from clenching the rope. You aren’t going to use the lifeguard to hand on a tether without it popping open. You don’t need to do anything for safeguard to grab the rope. The cam will clench the rope and not let go till you pull the lever to release the cam.

 

[enkriss]

View attachment 79097

I said if you let go of the handle/lever on the safeguard it will lock down on the rope. Which is exactly what it does.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

View attachment 79097

There is no panic function on the safeguard guys. There is on the lifeguard. The handle does release the brake BUT it does not automatically engage upon release which is why a hand must be kept on the brake line side of the rope. Panic features are when there is a spring assist to engage the handle if it’s over pulled or if it’s released. I think you guys are either confusing the lifeguard and safeguard or you are misinterpreting the mechanics of it. Can it engage while weighted after the brake is released? Absolutely! Should it? Theoretically yes! Is it guaranteed to do so? No. Hence there is a version with a spring assist for panic. Which is ideal for less experienced lead climbers and belayers.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

I said if you let go of the handle/lever on the safeguard it will lock down on the rope. Which is exactly what it does.

Yes but if you break the handle in the open position there is no guarantee it recloses. The cam is always on, if you disengage it without force on the brake line, there is no assist for to close the cam. This is why the Madrock doesn’t operate as smoothly as say the gri gri plus. The spring assists with the cam function. The Madrock is cam on fully until the handle is pulled. If the handle malfunctions and you have no hand on the brake line, the cam has no assist to close. That’s what the panic feature is for. If the cam is fully disengaged, the spring brings it back to closed.

 

[rutjr]

The panic function is if you panic and pull the handle wide open the handle disengages and releases the brake on the lifeguard.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

Sounds like you need to read up on them or maybe atleast use them so you can speak about how they work. The lifeguard spring keeps the cam from clenching the rope. You aren’t going to use the lifeguard to hang on a tether without it popping open. You don’t need to do anything for safeguard to grab the rope. The cam will clench the rope and not let go till you pull the lever to release the cam.

I have used a safeguard and I’ve used a gri gri plus. If you are fully weighted on them neither should move because the cam is in the locked position. If you remove your weight either can slip and my gri gri plus will slip when weight is removed. I’m not arguing those mechanical basics, what I am saying is once you have disengaged the cam (pulled the handle) the Madrock should return but without the spring assist feature, it has the potential for failure, where as if you were to pull the gri gri or lifeguard all the way open and it were to break, the spring will still engage the cam (unless it somehow failed as well). I am not debating what happens when the Madrock is fully functioning with no faults, I am saying the potential for the handle to brake or be stuck in the open position is there and you could fall because of it.

 

[Fl Canopy Stalker]

The panic function is if you panic and pull the handle wide open the handle disengages and releases the brake on the lifeguard.

Yes so if you panic and pull the handle completely open and the handle breaks, the spring would engage the cam. If you panic and pull the handle wide open on the safeguard and it broke, what is the guarantee that the cam properly engages again? If the spring didn’t do that, they wouldn’t have to make a spring assisted version as it would cost more to make.