Saddle Hunting Safety - What do you think?

[skell]

The recent discussions on safety have made me reflect on my hunting history. I started bowhunting in 2003. I can tell you the very first time I ascended/decended a tree and was connected to the tree 100% of the time, was October 2017. You read that right, a couple of months ago. And only because of switching to a saddle system.

I personally am ok with taking the safety overkill approach. I spent just over a year soaking up as much saddle info as I could. As well as learning the many of the aspects of DIY (knots, sewing, splicing, etc). As an individual who just completed my first season of hunting from a saddle, I feel the excessive safety factor my equipment gave me some needed confidence in a system that was very different from what I was used to (hang ons and climbers).

I see more benefit to urging overkill, especially for newcomers. Explaining to people how overkill the equipment is can have the benefit of easing safety concerns for those who have not tried. From there, as comfort and knowledge increase, people are free to adjust as they see fit and evaluate risk as they choose. My 2 pennies...

 

[Boudreaux]

Falls happen and will continue to happen with saddle hunters. We are a TINY community of saddle hunters, in a small industry. I know of more falls than I would like to. You don’t hear about them because we are so small,it doesn't happen often because so few people are using saddles and if it does happen the person doesn't want to be known for it in such a small community.
Saddle hunters on and off this forum have taken falls, some minor, with scrapes, bruises and busted prides. While others didn't make it out so lucky, trips to the ER and broken bones.

There is three things that are a common theme in the falls that I know of, failure to use proper safety device(not using linemans belt), complacency and non saddle equipment failure(DIY and commercial sticks, DIY platforms and DIY ropes and knots). I don't know of a single case where a mass produced saddle failed.

Thanks,
Boswell

 

[SouthMsBowhunter]

Again as a new member with 0 saddle experience and still waiting to buy one I feel out of place even commenting at this point.

But I have hunted off the ground and have had near disasters. And come from a military aviation background where safety and risk mitigation is ingrained in us.

As Bobby (hope it ok to use first names) states you (saddlehunters) and this forum is a small community but growing daily by evidence of the “Welcome” page.

To me this is more the reason why this site and its members should be the leaders in safe operation and use of equipment.

While the whole process continues to evolve with newer methods and equipment it is imperative that safety and risk mitigation be developed along with it.

A sticky page with information and even checklists (I read where some are using them DaveT, others) would go along way.

 

[SouthMsBowhunter]

Scott (Red Squirrel) has started pages for the different types and models of saddles, but needs time or even help in populating them.

This forum I’m sure eats up a good portion of his free time, so help from other trusted users could be delegated and helpful.

I’ll shut up now I’ve said much to much as it is, appreciate the forum and it’s leadership

 

[IkemanTX]

I’m sure several of the guys who have experience in similar fields/disciplines would be able to quickly write up a thread covering a certain topic in great detail. Then, Red could create a section specific to safety, or recommended practices, and make them locked stickies.
Almost like a whole section that is just member created articles.

Maybe the members as a whole can come up with a list of subjects that all new saddle hunters NEED to look over before jumping into saddles, and another for guys looking at doing some of the more common DIY projects. Safe knots, gear ratings and limitations, General best practices...

I would be willing to help, but don’t have NEAR the knowledge as some of the other guys on here.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cain]

Im not sure if this has been mentioned, but one thing we practice at work,(Fire dept.). If ever a rope or any equipment is "shock loaded", we immediately take anything that was involved with the shock load "out of service". And it becomes equipment that we train with and no live load goes on that rope or safety harness. If I should fall greater than a foot all of my stuff down to carabiners and ropeman or whatever will be taken out of service. I had a slip just last week while one sticking down. I step down onto an aider and my foot slipped off of the tree and I just kinda swung sorta upside down a little. I quickly pulled my self up and lowered my stick. It was not that big of a deal to me because I trust my equipment.

 

[g2outdoors]

That's good feedback @Cain Good post!

 

[MCDM]

I personally take safety seriously as we all have families that we should want to come home too. I have been saddle hunting since 2014 so it’s definitely what I would call not alot of time. However the last year and half I have been exclusively saddle hunting. As a beginner it is imperative to learn the terms and type of equipment that you will use or could use. It is equally important to understand limits and the uses of the gear that one can buy. I spent and continue to spend lots of time learning and money to better understand climbing and all that it encompasses and how it will relate to what I do!!

I feel beginners with little to zero experience should start in the off season where they have time to in the sense “train and become comfortable”. I would highly recommend newbies to go in with overkill levels of equipment as it not only will provide a physical level of safety but will also build on the mental levels which would build confidence to eventually lower the overkill while still taking account for safe acceptable levels of gear.

@Boudreaux made an excellent point of how the community is small but it is growing. So incidents don’t get heard as fast or globally as other forums or types of hunting. Also, there are probably many falls that do occur but i would go so far as to assume (my apologies if incorrect) that the user was not paying attention, rushing the setup, or had lower rated gear. However I do understand accidents can happen even if all of the above was not part of the equation.

I have sold quite a bit on here and that is one thing I think about before selling an item!! One is it safe to use, what condition is it in, has it experienced a load it shouldn’t have but did (did it compromise the device or item)!! I would never sell an item that I would not use or continue to use myself and that is one reason why I don’t sell certain things.

I personally have never fallen from a saddle but have from a traditional lock on stand. It was life changing but it was my fault. I rushed, was not tied in, and took a chance. I was lucky to walk away and i knew better and should have done the opposite of what i did but for an instance took my abilities for granted. This is one reason I don’t use certain stuff other people far more experienced use (I won’t mention items in order to not derail the thread). I am just not comfortable with chancing my life and certain items.

I also agree with others on a sticky regarding safety!! However this would possibly call for some form of committee and that will call in question knowledge and experience if this was to be in place like a TMA or other organizations that cater to arborist and climbing safety. However that is all another topic. But i think we all agree on some foundational rules regarding safety like using a linemans belt, a RC harness with a sitdrag or custom built saddle for example. If someone chooses not to listen from those with experience then it falls on them and unfortunately they could get hurt.

I will conclude my rambling lol that this site continues to push the limits but has always put safety first and foremost. Having continued discussions regarding safety I don’t think I have ever seen the level of discussions so in depth other than on Saddlehunter.com

 

[elk yinzer]

I think if saddle hunting continues to grow and go mainstream, it would just be my assumption that following basic protocols with a manufactured saddle are extremely safe and would be curious if there are any documented failures of such. I think to that end it is the manufacturers' responsibility and in their best interest obviously to ensure that the protocols are sufficient and that they are easy to follow and idiotproof as possible.

I think you have to separate that from the DIY stuff, different climbing methods, ounce counting, etc. is that really even relevant? Don't you know what you are getting into at that point? I think as a communal resource here it is nice to point out that someone's methods and gear may quite be up to protocol, but once you start tinkering and DIY, safety is your own responsibility, no?

 

[beej32]

Would there be openness to integrating mediawiki or a similar alternative with this site? Basically, my thinking is that forums are great for conversation but not for more "static" reference material, which I think would be hugely helpful for those of us just getting started. Lists like "items you must have," "biggest risks to understand" and "nice-to-haves" would be good examples that come to mind for me.

One reason this comes to mind is I finally read through the entirety of the "Ropeman safety" discussion pinned at the top of this forum. The discussion is great, but the key takeaways for a newcomer are buried throughout. And the title of the thread itself didn't really make it jump out as must-read for a newb.

Wikis are generally useful to strike a balance of keeping an "authoritative" sort of info in a consolidated way, while also sharing the burden of providing/updating/maintaining content with the whole crowd. (fwiw, I'd fully intend to contribute to getting-started resources, as I'm in the middle of trying to understand it all)

 

[g2outdoors]

Would there be openness to integrating mediawiki or a similar alternative with this site? Basically, my thinking is that forums are great for conversation but not for more "static" reference material, which I think would be hugely helpful for those of us just getting started. Lists like "items you must have," "biggest risks to understand" and "nice-to-haves" would be good examples that come to mind for me.

One reason this comes to mind is I finally read through the entirety of the "Ropeman safety" discussion pinned at the top of this forum. The discussion is great, but the key takeaways for a newcomer are buried throughout. And the title of the thread itself didn't really make it jump out as must-read for a newb.

Wikis are generally useful to strike a balance of keeping an "authoritative" sort of info in a consolidated way, while also sharing the burden of providing/updating/maintaining content with the whole crowd. (fwiw, I'd fully intend to contribute to getting-started resources, as I'm in the middle of trying to understand it all)

This is a great point. @redsquirrel and I have talked about this at length. That's where idea for the saddle hunting 101 thread came from.

I typed out a long glossary of important terms. Scott then posted and locked that thread to be used as a resource. Then he created a whole bunch of other threads that could be used like a wiki. Then hunting season started...

Scott, is there wiki software that works with the forum software we could leverage for something like this? I think it's a great idea.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

 

[redsquirrel]

This is a great point. @redsquirrel and I have talked about this at length. That's where idea for the saddle hunting 101 thread came from.

I typed out a long glossary of important terms. Scott then posted and locked that thread to be used as a resource. Then he created a whole bunch of other threads that could be used like a wiki. Then hunting season started...

Scott, is there wiki software that works with the forum software we could leverage for something like this? I think it's a great idea.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

It is a good idea. I will have to look into it this offseason.

 

[bigjoe]

I have to agree with Boudreaux, Red and others please leave the knots and adjustments to a professional or have gone through training you should not be trying to assume a knot tied at home or a modified rig will suffice.

It only takes one misstep to to end up being dead or worse, having your family suffer every day while they feed you and wipe your duff. I broke few ribs.
Guys I don’t hide the fact that I fell several seasons ago. I was tied off or so I thought with my linesman belt and down I came down 15 feet. I am a walking miracle by statistics. It can happen to the most experienced hunter.

I never want to see anyone getting hurt and go through what I did or worse.

Just my 2 scents.

 

[g2outdoors]

Guys I don’t hide the fact that I fell several seasons ago. I was tied off or so I thought with my linesman belt and down I came down 15 feet.

What happened? I don't think I've heard your story. Maybe it could keep someone from making the same mistake?

 

[IkemanTX]

I will still always rely on my own gear. Knots, straps, sewing, sticks, etc.

Research, research, research.... but DIY is definitely within most member’s abilities.

I do most projects myself from construction, to plumbing, and electrical (not huge projects).
I am known to over build things, and most projects will be standing long after I am gone.
Knots are an easy undertaking with a little bit of research. There is a lot of info out there about them. Sewing patterns are a little harder to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bigjoe]

I was climbing using Lone wolf sticks and hang on. Practiced with it many times in the yard. As it was a new set up for me. I have always practiced new techniques and new stand at home. I had used climbers and the original Lok on for years. 37 years at that point. Always tied in, never modified any gear. I remember as a boy I built several tree stands. My Dad went and tied me several static lines with prussiks. He also made me harness out of seat belts. So safety has always been ingrained.

I got up to my stand height which was preset. I had been using the linesman belt (Hunter safety system) keeping tension on it all the way up. I leaned back at top step as I was getting ready to set the tether and nothing was there.

I fell backwards and hit the ground. 15’

It was a self closing caribener. I believe the caribener was attached to the D loop and not all the way through.

I saw threads pulled broken on the D loop suggesting this.

Very humbling experience.

All said and done I believe I was not clipped in properly.

G2 I posted a thread several years ago after I fell,to help make guys aware & to double check everything. The thread is “Please Take a moment to Read This”

 

[DaveT1963]

First of all big joe - glad you made it through that OK. There was a guy from work last year that fell 18 foot while gun hunting - he was carried away in ambulance but is fine today. He was NOT wearing a safety harness.


I doubt very seriously there are a large number of falls due to DIY. Most of the guys that actually do DIY research things pretty extensively and they know how to inspect their gear properly. Most accidents are NOT DIYers, they are human beings that make a mistake or their PURCHASED equipment fails. I would LOVE to see one DOCUMENTED case of a DIY saddle failing. Please post the newspaper article, newsfeed, or even the hunter contact info. I would almost bet that the reason for 99% of falls is human errors during climbing, transitioning, or a failure to use gear properly - just like the example posted above:

I believe the caribener was attached to the D loop and not all the way through.
All said and done I believe I was not clipped in properly.”

or their MANUFACTURED bought gear failed. New tribe is different and I do think they make great products, but the vast majority of hunting gear sold is manufactured by workers that have no clue about its intended use or purpose. Hell I trust myself building my gear a heck of a lot more then some factor worker getting paid min wage.


I will say it again, do some research - most tree hunting accidents come down to a few major things
1. Not wearing a lineman's belt/harness while ascending/descending (and a tether would be even safer)
2. transitioning (whether that is climbing over branches, moving to a stand/platform, etc.
3. HUMAN ERROR during these two processes.


There has been and will ALWYAS be risk and accidents when hunting from trees. If you want to eliminate 100% of falls from elevated stands stay on the ground. Even the most careful and knowledgeable "PRO" can (and some do) fall due to equipment failure or human error - IT HAPPENS.

 

[Ontariofarmer]

I was climbing using Lone wolf sticks and hang on. Practiced with it many times in the yard. As it was a new set up for me. I have always practiced new techniques and new stand at home. I had used climbers and the original Lok on for years. 37 years at that point. Always tied in, never modified any gear. I remember as a boy I built several tree stands. My Dad went and tied me several static lines with prussiks. He also made me harness out of seat belts. So safety has always been ingrained.

I got up to my stand height which was preset. I had been using the linesman belt (Hunter safety system) keeping tension on it all the way up. I leaned back at top step as I was getting ready to set the tether and nothing was there.

I fell backwards and hit the ground. 15’

It was a self closing caribener. I believe the caribener was attached to the D loop and not all the way through.

I saw threads pulled broken on the D loop suggesting this.

Very humbling experience.

All said and done I believe I was not clipped in properly.

G2 I posted a thread several years ago after I fell,to help make guys aware & to double check everything. The thread is “Please Take a moment to Read This”

Hi Joe
I did exactly the same thing one year ago. I clipped into my linemans belt with an auto locking biner and climbed just 6 feet. leaned back and human error. It was only a short fall but the biner was not engaged properly. It was not a long fall but it had potential. However even 6 feet falling on your back at 60 years old has potential ...a rock and not snow would have made it more serious.

Since then I double check my biners and make sure they are engaged properly. HUMAN error with good equipment.

 

[bigjoe]

I would not get back in a tree again if I did not think this is very safe. I think saddle hunting is the safest tree hunting option.

 

[bigjoe]

Ontario glad your ok also.