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Saddle Hunting Safety - What do you think?

Still in learning mode and appreciate the discussion. I have not purchased sticks yet, but was already leery of a single rope or strap holding the stick. I am planning to use a second, smaller diameter accessory cord tied below the main rope or strap to prevent kick outs (not heavy load bearing). Has anyone done this and am i off base in thinking it will help? I know it adds to the time to climb and very slightly to weight, but for just 3 steps, i would be ok knowing it is even safer.

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Boswell, no disrespect but since you never asked me you are making a faulty assumption as to why my stick kicked out.
 
None taken Boswell. I have learned a ton from your posts and videos and was trying to learn more. I have been reading through this site and and others online and the ones I have seen detailed involved the bottom moving sideways on the tree when weight was placed on the top step on the stick, so that was the only scenario i was considering. I'm new and absorbing all the info before i buy sticks so i don't know causes kickouts and would love to hear more from you and others of the causes and ways to prevent them.

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Sorry Dave, i am also new at tapatalk on my phone and misread and responded there. Same applies to you, love your videos and info too.

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Bwhana said:
Still in learning mode and appreciate the discussion. I have not purchased sticks yet, but was already leery of a single rope or strap holding the stick. I am planning to use a second, smaller diameter accessory cord tied below the main rope or strap to prevent kick outs (not heavy load bearing). Has anyone done this and am i off base in thinking it will help? I know it adds to the time to climb and very slightly to weight, but for just 3 steps, i would be ok knowing it is even safer.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I have only had sticks kick out due to human error and this only happened when I was in the newbie stage. They kick out when the offsets are not correctly sitting on the tree and the rope or strap is not tight. If the offsets have all points on the tree and the stick is vertical and the tree strap is tight I have not had them move.
A single rope seems to work fine. Spend the time making sure the stick is properly set on the tree and forget a second point of attachment.
Slow, methodical and careful will prevent these errors. I think slightly slow equals much safer and much quieter.

I am sure a DIY stick could break or the rope could be improperly sized or an improper bolt could break or a wrong thickness of aluminium tube could bend. These things can happen because of modifications. The nice thing is when you post a modification on this site guys will kindly be critical.
The saddle hunters senate of second sober thought.
Most of us are not engineers so we have a back up to our DIY called a lineman's belt which will likely prevent death and serious injury.
 
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Actually my kick out was due to not setting the stick properly not because it was a DIY STICK. It performed flawlessly 100s of times. It was due to me not setting the stick solidly. I simply gave a heads up that versa button placement can help reduce kick out if they are placed more towards the middle of the stick. Simple fact is EVERY STICK can kick out if they are not set properly

As to the wrong rope for prussic knot, same thing - HUMAN ERROR. There is just too much info readily available to ever make that mistake.

Let's not forget that it was the manufactures that came out with the waist belt safety belt that injured and even killed several people before they were pulled.

Finally I don't think anyone is suggesting to throw something together without learning how to do it properly first. And I don't think anyone has encouraged people to just throw crap together and call it DIY

Anyway, to get back to the real topic here, I feel the safest I've ever felt hunting from a tree since I started saddle hunting and doing DIY projects as it forced me to become far more familiar with my gear then I ever did before.
 
Any good do it yourself guy would learn more about the tech side of safety like shock loads, working loads, gear ratings, knots and symbols and what they mean when they apply and rigging procedures it will all around make you a safer hunter a safer worker and a much safer DIY weekender.
As for the prusik knot well that should have been tested on the ground or with the use of the buck strap for that matter any new tie in, device or redirect should be slowly pre-loaded with the buck as back up. tree 101.
 
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DaveT1963 said:
Actually my kick out was due to not setting the stick properly not because it was a DIY STICK. It performed flawlessly 100s of times. It was due to me not setting the stick solidly. I simply gave a heads up that versa button placement can help reduce kick out if they are placed more towards the middle of the stick. Simple fact is EVERY STICK can kick out if they are not set properly

As to the wrong rope for prussic knot, same thing - HUMAN ERROR. There is just too much info readily available to ever make that mistake.

Let's not forget that it was the manufactures that came out with the waist belt safety belt that injured and even killed several people before they were pulled.

Finally I don't think anyone is suggesting to throw something together without learning how to do it properly first. And I don't think anyone has encouraged people to just throw crap together and call it DIY

Anyway, to get back to the real topic here, I feel the safest I've ever felt hunting from a tree since I started saddle hunting and doing DIY projects as it forced me to become far more familiar with my gear then I ever did before.
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2X I agree completely... saddle hunting is a safe form of hunting and DIY projects are usually safe if we make things carefully. But sticks have bent and knots have been incorrectly tied and grade 8 bolts have not always been used etc.
It is nice to have a forum to bounce our ideas off in case we miss something or do something dumb.

It is also nice to know when others have the same things fail. Such as the biners on the kestrel back straps or the hook on ernies xop platform when incorrectly tied. It keeps us safer.
 
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Ontariofarmer said:
It is also nice to know when others have the same things fail. Such as the biners on the kestrel back straps or the hook on ernies xop platform when incorrectly tied. It keeps us safer.
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The biners failed on the kestrel back strap???
 
And a stopper knot would have stopped the prussic. I can tech a ten heart old to your one in 5 minutes. BTW, I've never heard of a prussic slipping all the way off a rope.... leads me to believe their was some human error. tying it as well.
 
bigjoe said:
The biners failed on the kestrel back strap???
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Some of us had the plastic nite ease biners break so we put heavier nite ease biners on.

Not a serious safety issue but they did break


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bigjoe said:
Good to know. Thank you
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I used the cam jam from nite Ize on my back band. Clamp biners into back band strap trim cam jam line to your length needed. I carry it in my backpack when I need it pull it out slip it over my head and clip cam jam line into tether Biner adjust with jam cleats on cam jam.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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Boudreaux said:
Falls happen and will continue to happen with saddle hunters. We are a TINY community of saddle hunters, in a small industry. I know of more falls than I would like to. You don’t hear about them because we are so small,it doesn't happen often because so few people are using saddles and if it does happen the person doesn't want to be known for it in such a small community.
Saddle hunters on and off this forum have taken falls, some minor, with scrapes, bruises and busted prides. While others didn't make it out so lucky, trips to the ER and broken bones.

There is three things that are a common theme in the falls that I know of, failure to use proper safety device(not using linemans belt), complacency and non saddle equipment failure(DIY and commercial sticks, DIY platforms and DIY ropes and knots). I don't know of a single case where a mass produced saddle failed.

Thanks,
Boswell
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Seems to be in the DNA that many folks are always looking for a better systems - lighter, faster, etc.

I, for one, really appreciate seeing someone use OEM equipment, as intended, and making that work well too.

One of my favorite quotes comes to mind, "Beware the man with one gun, he knows how to use it!"

Find what SAFELY works repeatedly well for you and don't be afraid to just stick with what works. Build boring proficiency, not new equipment constantly.
 
Dakotablues said:
Seems to be in the DNA that many folks are always looking for a better systems - lighter, faster, etc.

I, for one, really appreciate seeing someone use OEM equipment, as intended, and making that work well too.

One of my favorite quotes comes to mind, "Beware the man with one gun, he knows how to use it!"

Find what SAFELY works repeatedly well for you and don't be afraid to just stick with what works. Build boring proficiency, not new equipment constantly.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, but have a slightly different take.

Saddle hunting is brand new. We're still finding that combination of gear that can be the "single gun" you mention.

At some point the changes and improvements will become incremental, but we're not there yet. The changes are coming fast and furious.

But I do agree with you as a whole. Never ending tinkering is a bad thing.

Good post!

Sent from my Galaxy S8.
 
g2outdoors said:
I agree with this, but have a slightly different take.

Saddle hunting is brand new. We're still finding that combination of gear that can be the "single gun" you mention.

At some point the changes and improvements will become incremental, but we're not there yet. The changes are coming fast and furious.

But I do agree with you as a whole. Never ending tinkering is a bad thing.

Good post!

Sent from my Galaxy S8.
Click to expand...

I really enjoy your videos and efforts G2 - very informative.
 
I recall reading a thread not long ago about having a thread designated for mishaps people have had and what they found to be the problem along with there remedy. With that said I had a full length helium stick attempt to kick out on me the first time I used it. It was the top stick that slipped when I was positioning/twisting a hang on stand. My remedy would be to put a second strap on the bottom of the top step or any step i feel unsure of. Had never had a problem with short sticks though. Won't be dealing with hang ons to much next season, ordered a Kestrel Sunday. Can't say enough about this site and the people on it. Thanks for all you do @redsquirrel.
 
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