Elk Shape and John Dudley Podcast

[jgleas114]

This podcast is worth a listen

 

[Camelcluch]

This was a good one one arrow set ups. Also, the Nock On podcast with the guy from Australia is excellent.

 

[weekender21]

No discussion on here about the Dudley and Ranch Fairy podcast? That seems unlikely, must have been started and taken down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Horn]

Dud shares so great much info it's hard to take it all in at once really. I don't think he even realizes it lol

 

[jtw0057]

No discussion on here about the Dudley and Ranch Fairy podcast? That seems unlikely, must have been started and taken down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I enjoyed that one, they have different approaches to achieve perfect arrow flight within there skill set. Not everyone is a John Dudley level archer nor needs to be. They agreed a lot on penetration principles but Dudley doesn’t agree that penetration leads to more lethality is what I got out of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Andrew920]

I enjoyed that one, they have different approaches to achieve perfect arrow flight within there skill set. Not everyone is a John Dudley level archer nor needs to be. They agreed a lot on penetration principles but Dudley doesn’t agree that penetration leads to more lethality is what I got out of it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I got that Dudley thinks accuracy is everything and building super heavy arrows is not the way to go. It seemed to me like what caused his series of videos on arrows was the fact he kept seeing 700 gr arrows at TACs and he thought that was no good. And he couldn’t figure out why people were listening to some guy he had never heard of.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

Kudos to Dan for having people of differing opinions/approaches on his show and standing by his friendship with Troy. Dudley has lost more archery ability than I've ever had...

When faced with a decision between multiple competing theories, such as these, it's important to refrain from labeling them "right" and "wrong" and stick with "yours" and "mine". Our society has largely lost the ability to exercise civil discourse and not stereotype/demonize those with differing opinions (especially on trivial matters).

Now, having said all of that. The primary reason I switched to High FOC arrows was the improvement I believed to be gained in lethality. This was based on the momentum and kinetic energy results that Ranch Fairy shared (these images from his YT channel) - and the research from the Ashby Foundation. But, I am standing beside the belief I have that, all things being equal, "increased penetration does increase lethality".

 

[Arrowsquirrel]

I guess my take away from the John/Troy podcast was how new and uneducated Troy was to archery in general and has focused on only penetration. While that's not a bad thing it makes me think his thinking is a bit too one sided.

A lot of Troys arguments center around dissing every archery shop and the industry in general and it kinda came off as ignorant.

 

[Arrowsquirrel]

Meanwhile I'm shooting heavy arrows with iron will so I guess I still believe Troy so I'm not sure what I'm saying.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

Meanwhile I'm shooting heavy arrows with iron will so I guess I still believe Troy so I'm not sure what I'm saying.

I 100% agree with what you're saying. Troy's approach isn't very diplomatic and can definitely turn people away from his message. He'd convert a lot more people to shoot high FOC arrows if he didn't make say things that infer they're "stupid" or "childish".

 

[CP3]

I guess my take away from the John/Troy podcast was how new and uneducated Troy was to archery in general and has focused on only penetration. While that's not a bad thing it makes me think his thinking is a bit too one sided.

A lot of Troys arguments center around dissing every archery shop and the industry in general and it kinda came off as ignorant.

“Troy, have you ever killed an elk?” “No.”

 

[brydan]

I 100% agree with what you're saying. Troy's approach isn't very diplomatic and can definitely turn people away from his message. He'd convert a lot more people to shoot high FOC arrows if he didn't make say things that infer they're "stupid" or "childish".

Rebellious spirits are the ones that push the boundaries and often have the personalities to match

 

[bowhunthard88]

Kudos to Dan for having people of differing opinions/approaches on his show and standing by his friendship with Troy. Dudley has lost more archery ability than I've ever had...

When faced with a decision between multiple competing theories, such as these, it's important to refrain from labeling them "right" and "wrong" and stick with "yours" and "mine". Our society has largely lost the ability to exercise civil discourse and not stereotype/demonize those with differing opinions (especially on trivial matters).

Now, having said all of that. The primary reason I switched to High FOC arrows was the improvement I believed to be gained in lethality. This was based on the momentum and kinetic energy results that Ranch Fairy shared (these images from his YT channel) - and the research from the Ashby Foundation. But, I am standing beside the belief I have that, all things being equal, "increased penetration does increase lethality".

View attachment 89808

View attachment 89809

I sit firmly between the camps with multiple different setups based on a "personal" performance requirement which may or may not be dictated by the urge(s) to try something different. I do agree with "increased penetration does increase lethality", but only to the point that "lethality equals death", and "penetration only matters until exit" haha! I've personally had more legitimate broadhead issues with fixed blades than expandables, but that is a very low level POV, and doesn't apply to all circumstances and constructions. Humans as a whole seem to strive for division not consolidation... A Chevy guy and a Ford guy have a conversation, and the punchline doesn't end with "they both decide that they're Dodge fans" lol.

 

[Plebe]

Kudos to Dan for having people of differing opinions/approaches on his show and standing by his friendship with Troy. Dudley has lost more archery ability than I've ever had...

When faced with a decision between multiple competing theories, such as these, it's important to refrain from labeling them "right" and "wrong" and stick with "yours" and "mine". Our society has largely lost the ability to exercise civil discourse and not stereotype/demonize those with differing opinions (especially on trivial matters).

Now, having said all of that. The primary reason I switched to High FOC arrows was the improvement I believed to be gained in lethality. This was based on the momentum and kinetic energy results that Ranch Fairy shared (these images from his YT channel) - and the research from the Ashby Foundation. But, I am standing beside the belief I have that, all things being equal, "increased penetration does increase lethality".

View attachment 89808

View attachment 89809

All things are never equal.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

All things are never equal.


View attachment 90266

“All things being equal” meaning 300 fps with a 700gr arrow will have greater momentum and kinetic energy at 40 yards than with a 400gr arrow.

But I understand what you mean that all variables aren’t equal in this scenario and I hope you’ll pardon my expression. Personally,
I’d rather my arrow drop 10” at 40 yards and still have 65 joules of KE.

I reiterate…I’m not saying it’s the “right way”, just that it’s “my way”.

 

[Crawdaddy4]

I sit firmly between the camps with multiple different setups based on a "personal" performance requirement which may or may not be dictated by the urge(s) to try something different. I do agree with "increased penetration does increase lethality", but only to the point that "lethality equals death", and "penetration only matters until exit" haha! I've personally had more legitimate broadhead issues with fixed blades than expandables, but that is a very low level POV, and doesn't apply to all circumstances and constructions. Humans as a whole seem to strive for division not consolidation... A Chevy guy and a Ford guy have a conversation, and the punchline doesn't end with "they both decide that they're Dodge fans" lol.

Yes, I am positing that lethality = death, or as you state, penetration is a useless metric. I’ve had the opposite experience with fixed blade and mechanical. I will qualify that my mechanical experience has been exclusively with Rage and Swhacker.

It does seem like we migrate more towards conflict than unity these days and our current culture doesn’t contribute anything to combat that.

That’s why I love this forum. Great group of guys all suffering the same addiction.

 

[Plebe]

“All things being equal” meaning 300 fps with a 700gr arrow will have greater momentum and kinetic energy at 40 yards than with a 400gr arrow.

But I understand what you mean that all variables aren’t equal in this scenario and I hope you’ll pardon my expression. Personally,
I’d rather my arrow drop 10” at 40 yards and still have 65 joules of KE.

I reiterate…I’m not saying it’s the “right way”, just that it’s “my way”.

300fps with a 700gr arrow, drawing that bow has got to hurt.

 

[shmelton]

This high FOC/heavy weight, vs speed debate is no different then the 270 vs 300winmag debate. The deer are going to be dead…it doesn’t matter. I wish they’d find another way to take y’all’s money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[brydan]

300fps with a 700gr arrow, drawing that bow has got to hurt.

It sounded to me like he just misspoke, right or wrong it was the idea he was trying to get across. I used to do a lot of public speaking and if I was talking extemporaneously for long periods of time it’s easy for something to come out wrong

 

[Plebe]

But I understand what you mean that all variables aren’t equal in this scenario and I hope you’ll pardon my expression. Personally,
I’d rather my arrow drop 10” at 40 yards and still have 65 joules of KE.

To be clear, it's the deer that (can) drop 10"+ at 40yds, in the data I posted, not the arrow.