• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Safety mishaps per climbing method

With which climbing method have you personally experienced a safety mishap?

  • Spurs

    Votes: 5 7.1%

  • Bolts

    Votes: 5 7.1%

  • Screw in steps

    Votes: 10 14.3%

  • Strap/rope steps

    Votes: 11 15.7%

  • Multi-tether

    Votes: 2 2.9%

  • One-stick

    Votes: 8 11.4%

  • Multi-stick

    Votes: 30 42.9%

  • Climbing platform

    Votes: 20 28.6%

  • Rope system

    Votes: 4 5.7%

  • Aider

    Votes: 25 35.7%
  • Total voters
    70
Coachschaller said:
had a mishap today while setting up stands. Had a preset I wanted to redo, along with redrilling bolts. I could not get my climbing rope as high as I wanted. It was hitched over a bicycle hook and around the trunk. The bicycle hook came out and the hitch around the tree fell a foot or so. I was only about 6 or 7 feet off the ground, but it was so fast I didn't have time to get scared. I probably fell 1 or 2 feet but the climbing rope caught me and my climbing hitches did their job.

I used a JRB maverick hitch around the trunk. I was able to redo my preset to something more secure.
Click to expand...
Its a common misconception by a lot of SRT climbers that if ya capture the trunk, we can use a dead branch or something with limited strength. You proved that is incorrect. Unless we get our anchor nearly horizontal, the majority of our load is put ON the branch or in this case, on whatever you had in the tree. That's why I stated we should use live and viable branches. And of course, that has nothing to do with the Maverick vs a Butterfly loop vs a Quick Link.

I am curious if that technique was recommended by someone. Where did you get the idea its safe?


JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
Just my own idea!!!! I was also drilling bolts. I have yet to put a preset around a viable branch, that is why I make sure to capture the trunk. I tried to get it more horizontal, but it would not. The bicycle hook did not hold and flattened right out. However, the 523 ascender hitch with my bridge did not slip at all. It was also very easy to break even after the mishap. I can't remember if my lineman was around the tree or used in the garde hitch as a second bridge.

The little mishap helped give me confidence in the gear and hitches. Also, some experience to take forward.
 
Last year I had a kickout with my Hawk Helium stick using an aider- I was left swinging while holding on the top step of the stick. It wasn't fun but I managed to get my footing and restart the climb. I've been using the treestand wingman since - it's added weight but I don't mind the additional 1 lb of weight. I've been thinking of going 2TC or using a daisy chain around the tree with two foot loops to stand and use my wingman & tree tether on my main bridge to climb. I can then repel using the treestand wingman - haven't tried it but will try to practice before ever using it during the season.

For those of you that 2TC - any issues or mishaps?
 
Romulan said:
Last year I had a kickout with my Hawk Helium stick using an aider- I was left swinging while holding on the top step of the stick. It wasn't fun but I managed to get my footing and restart the climb. I've been using the treestand wingman since - it's added weight but I don't mind the additional 1 lb of weight. I've been thinking of going 2TC or using a daisy chain around the tree with two foot loops to stand and use my wingman & tree tether on my main bridge to climb. I can then repel using the treestand wingman - haven't tried it but will try to practice before ever using it during the season.

For those of you that 2TC - any issues or mishaps?
Click to expand...
2TC...No mishaps so far, knock on wood. I feel like it is a very safe method once you learn it. I personally never felt safe on sticks and a lineman's belt. There is a bit of a learning curve for a lot of folks. Go check out the "Why don't y'all 2TC thread". Lots of good info in there, and too much to go over here. First and foremost, take is slow, and practice the moves close to the ground.
 
Coachschaller said:
had a mishap today while setting up stands. Had a preset I wanted to redo, along with redrilling bolts. I could not get my climbing rope as high as I wanted. It was hitched over a bicycle hook and around the trunk. The bicycle hook came out and the hitch around the tree fell a foot or so. I was only about 6 or 7 feet off the ground, but it was so fast I didn't have time to get scared. I probably fell 1 or 2 feet but the climbing rope caught me and my climbing hitches did their job.

I used a JRB maverick hitch around the trunk. I was able to redo my preset to something more secure.
Click to expand...
Yeah there is no warning, at least with the stuff that has happened with me over the years. Your great, then you aint.
 
I just spent an hour trying to get to OSHA regulation on using lineman’s belts only for climbing.

All I can find is a letter saying it’s acceptable, in 1992.

When I try to find the OSHA description of acceptable linemans belt equipment, I strike out. What I wanted to see if if just a strap around the pole or tree is all they deem necessary, or if they require a squeeze.


This isn’t because I would accept that as “safe” or not. Just want to know what the safety police say.

While o was searching, I found a world of 200-2000.00 lineman’s belts. Like, dozens of different models.

Which means there’s thousands of folks out there, climbing with lineman’s belts, every day, as part of their job.

I’m now awful curious to know if their only means of fall protection is fall prevention.
 
kyler1945 said:
I just spent an hour trying to get to OSHA regulation on using lineman’s belts only for climbing.

All I can find is a letter saying it’s acceptable, in 1992.

When I try to find the OSHA description of acceptable linemans belt equipment, I strike out. What I wanted to see if if just a strap around the pole or tree is all they deem necessary, or if they require a squeeze.


This isn’t because I would accept that as “safe” or not. Just want to know what the safety police say.

While o was searching, I found a world of 200-2000.00 lineman’s belts. Like, dozens of different models.

Which means there’s thousands of folks out there, climbing with lineman’s belts, every day, as part of their job.

I’m now awful curious to know if their only means of fall protection is fall prevention.
Click to expand...
Get their number, call them up and tell them we need them to rate every climbing method as safe all the way to unsafe on a scale of 1-5 since we are incapable of assessing risk or hazards. Let bring in the people that get paid the big bucks to keep Americans safe!

To me, safety is such an arbitrary thing anyway, no one really knows what is safe and what is unsafe anymore, that’s what osha is for. Safety is such an abstract concept that it isn’t worth really even talking about. So I for one am with you! Let’s settle this once and for all and get OSHA on the phone, preferably on a zoom meeting where we can all attend while sitting in our saddles.
 
kyler1945 said:
I just spent an hour trying to get to OSHA regulation on using lineman’s belts only for climbing.

All I can find is a letter saying it’s acceptable, in 1992.

When I try to find the OSHA description of acceptable linemans belt equipment, I strike out. What I wanted to see if if just a strap around the pole or tree is all they deem necessary, or if they require a squeeze.


This isn’t because I would accept that as “safe” or not. Just want to know what the safety police say.

While o was searching, I found a world of 200-2000.00 lineman’s belts. Like, dozens of different models.

Which means there’s thousands of folks out there, climbing with lineman’s belts, every day, as part of their job.

I’m now awful curious to know if their only means of fall protection is fall prevention.
Click to expand...
For a number of years when I first started doing tree work I used only lanyards a majority of the time. First threw a rope up to one of the lowest branches, got on top of the branch, and tossed the lanyard up to another branch, repeat. Didn’t even have adjustablity, only knew the Tautline friction hitch tied with the rope end for the climb line, one of the worse ones. Wrapping around the tree got you close to the tree, and used to hang on the trunk securely when there were no branches.
 
Brocky said:
For a number of years when I first started doing tree work I used only lanyards a majority of the time. First threw a rope up to one of the lowest branches, got on top of the branch, and tossed the lanyard up to another branch, repeat. Didn’t even have adjustablity, only knew the Tautline friction hitch tied with the rope end for the climb line, one of the worse ones. Wrapping around the tree got you close to the tree, and used to hang on the trunk securely when there were no branches.
Click to expand...

Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying you’d just have a slack tether(lanyard) tied to a branch above you while you used your lineman’s to climb a tree?

Haha sorry I’m not up to speed on a lot of the jargon.
 
For anyone doing research, be aware that there are multiple names for certain things. That's one of the reasons I created a dictionary.

Spikes, gaffs, spurs...
Lineman's belt, flipline, backstrap, positioning lanyard...

And remember, poles don't have bark and so they use different kinda spikes on em. I watched a lineman's training video recently and they all had to use a "TREE SQUEEZE" or equivalent device.

I have long concluded that for a climbing method to be considered "safe", it has to address loss of footing, and subsequent self rescue, for whatever reason it occurred, whether human error, conditions or equipment failure. Everyone seems well aware that carabiners and ropes need to have a HUGE safety factor, meaning that they won't break until they see incredible multiples of the load we give them. They come with a quoted MBS. The sticks, steps and platforms don't. They come with a weight limit. Nobody tells us the force necessary to break them. My solution is simple: tie in and manage slack. Now, it doesn't matter if your stick or strap or cam cleat holds 200 or 2000... cuz its no problem because you have a way down.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
Don't know if this is apropos to this thread but there was a post on Facebook today where someone took a fall transitioning to their platform. Wasn't tethered to the tree and the cam buckle on the platform failed.
 
SNIPERBBB said:
Don't know if this is apropos to this thread but there was a post on Facebook today where someone took a fall transitioning to their platform. Wasn't tethered to the tree and the cam buckle on the platform failed.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, there will be more of these events. And if he was tethered in... then what? If his feet are touching nothing, he's stuck. What if he dropped his phone or couldn't call for a rescue? It's not about our climbing method. There's many ways to climb. All should invilve being tied in, no slack and a line to ground.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
John RB said:
Unfortunately, there will be more of these events. And if he was tethered in... then what? If his feet are touching nothing, he's stuck. What if he dropped his phone or couldn't call for a rescue? It's not about our climbing method. There's many ways to climb. All should invilve being tied in, no slack and a line to ground.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
Click to expand...
If the person keeps their head and has a lineman's belt or other rope (good reason to use a heavier rope for a bow/gun pull up rope, I do) and you can fashion a foot loop to at least relief suspension trauma.

Then you could assess your options. Could either keep hanging out and hope someone comes along or you can make a call or very slowly 2TC descend to either your sticks or the ground.
 
kyler1945 said:
Forgive my ignorance. Are you saying you’d just have a slack tether(lanyard) tied to a branch above you while you used your lineman’s to climb a tree?

Haha sorry I’m not up to speed on a lot of the jargon.
Click to expand...
No tether like use, that would make it stationary. Both lanyards were used like linesmen’s, to ascend there had to be a branch, stub, bulging, or bending of the trunk for it to hold. If over a branch, I pulled on one side to bring the other up, DRT, or Moving Rope type of climbing.
 
Brocky said:
No tether like use, that would make it stationary. Both lanyards were used like linesmen’s, to ascend there had to be a branch, stub, bulging, or bending of the trunk for it to hold. If over a branch, I pulled on one side to bring the other up, DRT, or Moving Rope type of climbing.
Click to expand...

Haha I think I'm even more confused now.

Back to my original question - are there lots of lineman and maybe arborists climbing with only what we here call a lineman's belt?

Lineman's belt = some form of belt that sits on the hips with no leg straps, and a rope that goes around the tree with no type of squeeze used.

Or is a squeeze required for this type of belt to be kosher?

The reason I'm asking is because it is clear that thousands of these belts are sold all day every day. It's a robust market.

I would have assumed that climbers above 4' would not be able to use a lineman's ONLY as a means of fall protection.
 
Don’t think about it too much, wasn’t the best way to go, but at that time it was all I knew, or more correctly what my coworkers knew, no YouTube at the time.
Linesmens can be used alone if the climber is always paying attention to continually load it, either by leaning back in the saddle, or using your arms. Pole climbers did it for years safely, the squeezes make more safe for sure. Back in the day, lanyards were once called Scare Straps, less of a man if you used one!
 
kyler1945 said:
Haha I think I'm even more confused now.

Back to my original question - are there lots of lineman and maybe arborists climbing with only what we here call a lineman's belt?

Lineman's belt = some form of belt that sits on the hips with no leg straps, and a rope that goes around the tree with no type of squeeze used.

Or is a squeeze required for this type of belt to be kosher?

The reason I'm asking is because it is clear that thousands of these belts are sold all day every day. It's a robust market.

I would have assumed that climbers above 4' would not be able to use a lineman's ONLY as a means of fall protection.
Click to expand...
ANSI standard Z133 2017, for Arborist safety is adopted by OSHA and is the standard you may want to study. It uses the term "secured" rather than tied in so as to ensure a cinching anchor. Devices like the Tree Squeeze have been introduced in order to be in compliance with the standard. A Lineman who climbs poles also need to use a secure connection, not just a belt. I recently watched a training video of this.
But as hunters, we are less experienced and at higher risk.....so it's just common sense. Sticks kick out (and get recalled)... straps break, attachment devices fail... or we could also simply slip. We should never depend on our footing, plus none of that stuff is anywhere near as strong, stable and fault tolerant as an anchor. And nobody is even telling us how strong it is. But there is a quoted Minimum Breaking Strength on our ropes and carabiners. So tie in, manage slack, and have a rappel plan.
Screenshot_20231006_003955.jpg

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top