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Friction Hitches

Skunkworkx said:
I'm not (pun not intended) big on knots, but know a few from being in the fire dept., and grandfather having a 30-something foot boat living on the waterfront.

Looking at different knots for my tether...thinking klemheist hitch over the prusik I been using...or is there something better ?
Click to expand...

The Agile is better than the Klemheist and the Longhorn Agile is better than the Agile.
The agile requires a longer loop than the Klemheist though and the longhorn agile needs a length of cord to tie, which may or may not be a factor for you

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krub6b said:
The Agile is better than the Klemheist and the Longhorn Agile is better than the Agile.
The agile requires a longer loop than the Klemheist though and the longhorn agile needs a length of cord to tie, which may or may not be a factor for you

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Click to expand...
Is the carabiner required ?
 
I tried an Agile without the carabineer and it only functions a little bit better than the Klemheist I had used with a different rope combo. A Longhorn Agile, no carabineer handle, with the same rope combo that I used on the Agile and it functions much better, almost flawless. Doesn't really answer your question unfortunately, but that's the experience I have to pass along

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If you are pushing up the hitch with your hand, rather than pulling up on the rope, the carabiner probably isn’t needed. The hitch doesn’t get as compressed, which can lead to eventual binding up. A lot of binding can be prevented by pushing up the hitch legs, but it does require two hands, a drawback.
 
krub6b said:
I tried an Agile without the carabineer and it only functions a little bit better than the Klemheist I had used with a different rope combo. A Longhorn Agile, no carabineer handle, with the same rope combo that I used on the Agile and it functions much better, almost flawless. Doesn't really answer your question unfortunately, but that's the experience I have to pass along

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Click to expand...
A cool feature of my JRB (doubled stationary) system is that it's a great way to do side by side tests of friction hitches or variations. Last week, I was running a pair of Agile Hitches, one with a handle, and one without. On the ascent, as long as i gripped the base of the hitch, although it was harder to grip, they performed basically the same. And as long as i wiggled it loose before starting rappel, it stays that way for the next climb. But if i just break the hitch and not wiggle it loose to start rappel, during rappel, it takes too much friction and jams up to the point where it would need to be loosened to start the next climb... same as a Klemheist. But the side with the handle is pretty much maintenance free. Bottom line: I only recommend using it with a handle and its important to actually use the handle as we climb. That action keeps it properly "expanded. Also, when comparing the Agile to the Longhorn Agile, the latter is consistently better performing, but requires a couple of ties to get your working loop the perfect length. I like Agile for my DSRT applications and Longhorn Agile for my Single Rope Applications.
4dfe444ec9f6d58ed92ea6904b110cc7.jpg


JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
Skunkworkx said:
Is the carabiner required ?
Click to expand...
I’m not using the Agile to SRT, where I’m sure the carabiner really shines, but I have not noticed a huge difference with the carabiner or without while making small adjustments on the weighted hitch. The Agile just does the job of the Klemheist better than the klemheist (still a simply fantastic hitch on a tether IMO). The carabiner does make the hitch a little easier to break on rappel as @John RB pointed out to me. I wouldn’t call it necessary but that probably comes down to your preferences and materials. Try both ways.
 
Bluewater rope
5m x 20" dynamic prusik (sewn endless)
MBS 2800 lbf
SWL 280 lbf

Also have 10 or 11 mm rope from them (have to look up what I got)

Making a new tether set-up (smaller and lighter)
 
@John RB so I’m trying the agile with 3 wraps, TRC on HTP. It’s holding really well to tugging and upper body hanging and releasing like a dream while loaded. I’m liking the length of this 3-wrap version. Any reason I should feel bad about not putting that 4th wrap?
 
Brocky said:
If it grabs reliably and doesn’t slip, adding another wrap would be unwanted friction, making it harder to slide.
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Thank you. That’s kinda what I was thinking. Not the case with 7mm. That extra mm really takes some friction away. I like your Sticht better with 7mm and this one with 6.
 
DelaWhere_Arrow said:
@John RB so I’m trying the agile with 3 wraps, TRC on HTP. It’s holding really well to tugging and upper body hanging and releasing like a dream while loaded. I’m liking the length of this 3-wrap version. Any reason I should feel bad about not putting that 4th wrap?
Click to expand...
Would like to see a photo. 6mm on 9.5... I typically use 7mm but am sure 6 works. I don't own HTP so I can't say about the ideal # of wraps. But in general, the number of wraps on any friction hitch is how we TUNE it for optimal performance. In general, i use one more wrap than what "seems to hold". The reason why is cuz i have done a fair amount of formal and informal wet testing, where everything is completely soaked. In general, we need another wrap.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com
 
The Sticht has two options for adjusting the amount of friction, the number of wraps, as John stated, and how close the ring and twist are to the wraps. On the left they are up close, this position grabs the best, but there might be some resistance when hand tending. Some separation, on the right, makes hand tending easier, but might not grab as well if too far apart. I find with some cords an extra wrap with some separation works the best.
IMG_6473.jpeg
 
@Brocky I just realized I have been tying my hitch cord wrong. So far it has worked. I use 5 wraps. I'm using 8mm on either a predator rope or blue moon to DRT. Holds under load. But might explain why I couldn't get the tether and hitch cord you sent me to hold well. It was sliding some. Wrong knot. Do you see any issues? Should I make sure I re train my self? Or if it holds it's fine. Here is what I am doing..Screenshot_20231102-121815-896.png
 
I think it was a Distel, similar to the one shown. If you rotate it 180 degrees, it is the Gripping Hitch, an older one, but not well known.
IMG_6491.jpeg
The slipping might be caused by the hitch spreading too much, the VT is similar,
 
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Brocky said:
The Sticht has two options for adjusting the amount of friction, the number of wraps, as John stated, and how close the ring and twist are to the wraps. On the left they are up close, this position grabs the best, but there might be some resistance when hand tending. Some separation, on the right, makes hand tending easier, but might not grab as well if too far apart. I find with some cords an extra wrap with some separation works the best.
View attachment 93870
Click to expand...

@Brocky ive used your sticht hitch on and off for two years now with several different chords and I have found that they require being dressed every climb or retied to keep the bottom closer to the wraps less they start to slip. I have had the sticht slip on me more than any other hitch I’ve tried. I want to like it but it constantly comes back to bite me. Does the sticht hitch prefer long or short tail to connect to? Any other option to prevent this? Thanks.
 
The slipping might be due to longer legs, I try to get them as short as possible on all hitches. Some hitches it is just personal preference, others it’s necessary. The Oval VT can be used with longer legs and not spread out, same benefits as the Sticht, but not as easily adjusted.
 
gcr0003 said:
@Brocky ive used your sticht hitch on and off for two years now with several different chords and I have found that they require being dressed every climb or retied to keep the bottom closer to the wraps less they start to slip. I have had the sticht slip on me more than any other hitch I’ve tried. I want to like it but it constantly comes back to bite me. Does the sticht hitch prefer long or short tail to connect to? Any other option to prevent this? Thanks.
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Slip how bad? We talking a few uncomfortable inches until it grabbed or a slow ride down a rappel rope? (I know you 2TC a lot with it.)
 
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