1TC?

[Samcirrus]

Thanks for trying this and reporting back. Your observations make sense. Can I ask if you used a toggle on your SSH's and used said toggle to maneuver the hitches up? Seems like JRB wiggles his up pretty easily in his video, but maybe this is harder than it looks.

If by toggle you mean the carabiner that "locks" the SHH then yes and no. Yes you can pull on the carabiner to open the hitch but you gotta get your fingers under both threads of rope and also try to keep them from crossing each other while moving them up. I ll show you what I feel is the best way to girth hitch a rope with a carabiner and not a heavy quick/delta link!

 

[John RB]

So there are a few different points to respond to.

1. When hitch climbing, i never attempt to advance an SHH up a tree. When i climb as high as i can on one, i tie a new one above it.
2. I can successfully hitch climb with a soft bottom footloop, just webbing formed out of my regular footloop, by clipping the footloops back into the garda. But a hard bottom is more comfortable and easier to engage.
3. I have made a lot of changes to my hitch climbing method since that video was published last year. I will publish an update soon. Actually hopefully next weekend if i can get a camera operator.

Changes include:
1. Eliminated the beaners on the bridge loops.
2. No (Yellow) tending loop
3. JRB Ascender hitches only, 2 per side No Meech's, no Garda.
4. No longer need to kick through all that slack... cuz we climb on alternating sides.
5. It consumes less rope than the last version. But i still want enough to have both ends touching the ground at all times. An emergency rappel is always gonna be possible, no matter what side your on.

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[Samcirrus]

So there are a few different points to respond to.

1. When hitch climbing, i never attempt to advance an SHH up a tree. When i climb as high as i can on one, i tie a new one above it.
2. I can successfully hitch climb with a soft bottom footloop, just webbing formed out of my regular footloop, by clipping the footloops back into the garda. But a hard bottom is more comfortable and easier to engage.
3. I have made a lot of changes to my hitch climbing method since that video was published last year. I will publish an update soon. Actually hopefully next weekend if i can get a camera operator.

Changes include:
1. Eliminated the beaners on the bridge loops.
2. No (Yellow) tending loop
3. JRB Ascender hitches only, 2 per side No Meech's, no Garda.
4. No longer need to kick through all that slack... cuz we climb on alternating sides.
5. It consumes less rope than the last version. But i still want enough to have both ends touching the ground at all times. An emergency rappel is always gonna be possible, no matter what side your on.

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An alternative to your point 3 will be good, as that was what I really didn't like from the hitch climbing method!

 

[Samcirrus]

I have a solution for point #2 in my 2TC climb and it's a adjustable length hitch of sorts on my foot tether so I can always pass the whistle test without clipping in to something before going around a branch. It warm and 34 degrees today so I'll try to film what I mean!

Here's my adjustable second bridge attachment method.... I need some new cord to make it a little smoother, but its basically a 6mm trc michoacan tied to a 7mm prusik cord from tethrd then a friction hitch on the tethrd cord to make it hold. It works so well and I'm never worried I'll only be caught by my foot!

 

[TNSTAAFL]

So there are a few different points to respond to.

1. When hitch climbing, i never attempt to advance an SHH up a tree. When i climb as high as i can on one, i tie a new one above it.

3. I have made a lot of changes to my hitch climbing method since that video was published last year. I will publish an update soon. Actually hopefully next weekend if i can get a camera operator.

Changes include:

5. It consumes less rope than the last version. But i still want enough to have both ends touching the ground at all times. An emergency rappel is always gonna be possible, no matter what side your on.

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1. Got it. You clearly show this in the orginal video, and it is clearly better than what I have proposed in this thread.

3. That's great to hear. I really appreciate and look forward to this new video. I am coming around to the solid bottom foot loop and this method overall.

5. I'm still a bit hung up on this and want to use a 40 ft rope. Partly so I am not buying more rope than the 40 I already own, and partly because I don't want to carry more than 40 feet in. I don't envision using other methods that require longer ropes. All that said, isn't an emergency rappel always possible even without both ends touching the ground, assuming you possess and attach a "pull down" cord? Obviously one end needs to touch the ground which may require some time and effort re-tying hitches to free that much up on one end. Am I visualizing that properly?

 

[John RB]

1. Got it. You clearly show this in the orginal video, and it is clearly better than what I have proposed in this thread.

3. That's great to hear. I really appreciate and look forward to this new video. I am coming around to the solid bottom foot loop and this method overall.

5. I'm still a bit hung up on this and want to use a 40 ft rope. Partly so I am not buying more rope than the 40 I already own, and partly because I don't want to carry more than 40 feet in. I don't envision using other methods that require longer ropes. All that said, isn't an emergency rappel always possible even without both ends touching the ground, assuming you possess and attach a "pull down" cord? Obviously one end needs to touch the ground which may require some time and effort re-tying hitches to free that much up on one end. Am I visualizing that properly?

I was originally hoping to achieve the ability for 40ft of rope to get us to any normal hunting height, say 25 ft with the last hitch tied at 30ft. I am not saying it cant be done but as your getting high in the climb, you'll get to the point where ya go to attach your next hitch and the end isn't touching the ground. That's a problem:
Picture yourself attaching a series of SHHs as you climb. Ya start with your friction hitches near the ends of the rope and as you climb, they advance towards the center. However unlike the original vid, where there's no extra line between the SHHs, there's a ton of line between em. You consume it as ya climb. Ya cant know in advance exactly how many moves are going to make and which side will be your rappel side.

As for not needing another method to climb, if we had some time to chat by a tree trunk, I bet ya I could convince ya you'd benefit from having other ways to rope climb. For example, even if you hunt exclusively in forests of crotchless telephone poles, you're still gonna have a couple favorite trees that ya hunt more than once. Once we hitch climb em once, i will show ya how to leave something on the trunk that allows ya to climb the next time much faster and easier using the same system.

Using this method is a last resort for me. If I can use a throwball, i do so. Its not just time. There are less failure modes in a "JRB climb" than a "JRB hitch climb". I have backups in place if a friction hitch loop gave for some reason... say an improper hunters bend. A vid will show ya alot. Soon.

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[John RB]

Here's my adjustable second bridge attachment method.... I need some new cord to make it a little smoother, but its basically a 6mm trc michoacan tied to a 7mm prusik cord from tethrd then a friction hitch on the tethrd cord to make it hold. It works so well and I'm never worried I'll only be caught by my foot!

Really like that Sam. I am typically pretty consumed in my own experiments and methods and so i would be guilty of NOT having watched every vid on other methods including 2TC, so i have not seen this before and so i think its novel and clever. Also thrilled to see that you have use for the JRB Ascender. THAT alone is very rewarding for me...

I am not sure i understand all the details of how ya constructed your adjustable "best friend" but it's cool. My gut says that it doesn't actually need the adjustable part since we can change the height on the lower tether to affect the tension. (Right?)

Now, if i had time to go rig one up, i would do it with one piece of rope, not two tethers... so that ya can rappel off the Last set of the top. Is that how ya have it rigged?

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[TNSTAAFL]

I was originally hoping to achieve the ability for 40ft of rope to get us to any normal hunting height, say 25 ft with the last hitch tied at 30ft. I am not saying it cant be done but as your getting high in the climb, you'll get to the point where ya go to attach your next hitch and the end isn't touching the ground. That's a problem:
Picture yourself attaching a series of SHHs as you climb. Ya start with your friction hitches near the ends of the rope and as you climb, they advance towards the center. However unlike the original vid, where there's no extra line between the SHHs, there's a ton of line between em. You consume it as ya climb. Ya cant know in advance exactly how many moves are going to make and which side will be your rappel side.

As for not needing another method to climb, if we had some time to chat by a tree trunk, I bet ya I could convince ya you'd benefit from having other ways to rope climb. For example, even if you hunt exclusively in forests of crotchless telephone poles, you're still gonna have a couple favorite trees that ya hunt more than once. Once we hitch climb em once, i will show ya how to leave something on the trunk that allows ya to climb the next time much faster and easier using the same system.

Using this method is a last resort for me. If I can use a throwball, i do so. Its not just time. There are less failure modes in a "JRB climb" than a "JRB hitch climb". I have backups in place if a friction hitch loop gave for some reason... say an improper hunters bend. A vid will show ya alot. Soon.

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Appreciate the insights you provide. You might be right on the other method convincing, but I do seem to have a hang up about leaving stuff in trees. That and throw ball aversion have kept me away from rope climbing thus far. The hitch climbing is what's getting me in the game. My stated aversions may be unfounded I realize.

On the rope length and rappel I understand what you are describing about being tied in at different spots along the rope, such that neither end touches the ground (past 20 feet with a 40 ft rope I suppose). However, can't you just set a new hitch towards the end of your rope, weight that hitch, and then release the old hitch such that all the remaining rope dangles to the ground? I may be totally misunderstanding how this works.

 

[Samcirrus]

Really like that Sam. I am typically pretty consumed in my own experiments and methods and so i would be guilty of NOT having watched every vid on other methods including 2TC, so i have not seen this before and so i think its novel and clever. Also thrilled to see that you have use for the JRB Ascender. THAT alone is very rewarding for me...

I am not sure i understand all the details of how ya constructed your adjustable "best friend" but it's cool. My gut says that it doesn't actually need the adjustable part since we can change the height on the lower tether to affect the tension. (Right?)

Now, if i had time to go rig one up, i would do it with one piece of rope, not two tethers... so that ya can rappel off the Last set of the top. Is that how ya have it rigged?

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Will answer after work...

 

[Samcirrus]

Really like that Sam. I am typically pretty consumed in my own experiments and methods and so i would be guilty of NOT having watched every vid on other methods including 2TC, so i have not seen this before and so i think its novel and clever. Also thrilled to see that you have use for the JRB Ascender. THAT alone is very rewarding for me...

I am not sure i understand all the details of how ya constructed your adjustable "best friend" but it's cool. My gut says that it doesn't actually need the adjustable part since we can change the height on the lower tether to affect the tension. (Right?)

Now, if i had time to go rig one up, i would do it with one piece of rope, not two tethers... so that ya can rappel off the Last set of the top. Is that how ya have it rigged?

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So to answer in order,
The main reason I have that hitch with an adjustable cord tied to it is because during the 2TC climb I want it long and kinda centered between my girth high and footloop hitch. When it's long theres no hindrance to me moving the foot tether up as high as I want. Then when I reach a branch to go around, I pull the main friction hitch portion up to the girth hitch, then pull the adjustable part short so I can rest my body weight in an upright position while I release the top tether to go around the branch. When it comes time to climb again I make it long and slide it down to the in between part of my foot tether.
If I didn't have it long or adjustable, my saddle would either be held too close to my footloop for comfort and ability to stand up, or (what I was doing before) I kept just an open fiction hitch and clipped into it b4 passing branches. I didn't like having to have a carabiner dangling around either on the hitch or on my second bridge, and felt that this way I'm doing it now is slightly less movement and steps than clipping in and out of a hitch on my foot tether.

 

[Samcirrus]

I did try using my 1 rappel rope with 2 ends for my 2 TC, but the reason I like having a separate 2nd tether for my foot tether is that I dont have to take anything off when I go to rappel. As well as cooling and storing the top is trickier when utilizing both ends as tethers. I also use my foot tether as my accessory cord for hanging my bow and water/snack pouch on the tree.

 

[Samcirrus]

PS. I love the JRBSTAH, JRB self-tending ascender hitch! If only you had come up with it last year I wouldn't have bought 2 ropeman 1s!
I haven't taken a full video of my dual system, but its completely setup to do either SRT on my main tether rope, or 2TC. All I have to do is switch my footloop from my 2nd tether to the main tether with the gaurda hitch!
I no longer climb on my figure 8, as I find the JRBSTAH to work so smoothly going up and is my backup when rappelling down!
I also haven't found a knot to tie 2 ropes together better than the hunters bend because it unites so well too.

 

[Samcirrus]

Appreciate the insights you provide. You might be right on the other method convincing, but I do seem to have a hang up about leaving stuff in trees. That and throw ball aversion have kept me away from rope climbing thus far. The hitch climbing is what's getting me in the game. My stated aversions may be unfounded I realize.

On the rope length and rappel I understand what you are describing about being tied in at different spots along the rope, such that neither end touches the ground (past 20 feet with a 40 ft rope I suppose). However, can't you just set a new hitch towards the end of your rope, weight that hitch, and then release the old hitch such that all the remaining rope dangles to the ground? I may be totally misunderstanding how this works.

No you're on to something there, it's just trickier than it sounds to switch over depending if you're tying the new hitch up or below the old one. But you should just test it out at the bottom of a tree to see how it would or wouldn't work!

 

[Samcirrus]

Really like that Sam. I am typically pretty consumed in my own experiments and methods and so i would be guilty of NOT having watched every vid on other methods including 2TC, so i have not seen this before and so i think its novel and clever. Also thrilled to see that you have use for the JRB Ascender. THAT alone is very rewarding for me...

I am not sure i understand all the details of how ya constructed your adjustable "best friend" but it's cool. My gut says that it doesn't actually need the adjustable part since we can change the height on the lower tether to affect the tension. (Right?)

Now, if i had time to go rig one up, i would do it with one piece of rope, not two tethers... so that ya can rappel off the Last set of the top. Is that how ya have it rigged?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

After I climb with the bowline loop tied in the configuration in my video, I then always, since the week of your JRB hitch video release!, tie the JRB hitch with my top/main tether(also my rappel rope), hunt on it, then rappel on it and enjoy the hassle free release....unlike trying to pull down a rappel rope through a regular quick link or other girth hitch!

 

[CooterBrown]

After I climb with the bowline loop tied in the configuration in my video, I then always, since the week of your JRB hitch video release!, tie the JRB hitch with my top/main tether(also my rappel rope), hunt on it, then rappel on it and enjoy the hassle free release....unlike trying to pull down a rappel rope through a regular quick link or other girth hitch!

Can you show more on the carabiner attachment method for the girth hitch

 

[Samcirrus]

Can you show more on the carabiner attachment method for the girth hitch

Yep when I get home, hopefully. I like this method as it completely takes any chance of side loading the carabiner, which is alot lighter than a steel quick-link, is easy to take the carabiner out, I use the carabiner as a handle to loosen and tighten the girth as I climb, and it keeps the girth hitch tight when all tension is off!
My daughter is having some dental surgery ATM.

 

[John RB]

Was able to get a camera operator for a bit today and shot a one take climb, just showing the progress since the first vid. I have some cool ideas for the creation of a dedicated system just for hitch climbing. We won't need the SHH nor the JRB hitch.

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[TNSTAAFL]

Was able to get a camera operator for a bit today and shot a one take climb, just showing the progress since the first vid. I have some cool ideas for the creation of a dedicated system just for hitch climbing. We won't need the SHH nor the JRB hitch.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

This is awesome stuff John. Thank you so much for shooting that video and posting it here. I love that the hard bottom Garda is gone. Those ascender hitches appear to work beautifully. This might get me to buying a longer rope, but I really look forward to seeing what you come up with for a 40 foot version.

 

[phatkaw]

I have an extra set of spurs for sale...