2TC with both feet and a lineman?

[bluguitar89]

Alright, I have what might be a crazy idea. Figured I'd post here to see if anyone else has tried anything similar before I make a fool of myself.

I tried 2TC a couple of times last month using Custom Gear Modifications' kit with two stirrups. I tried the typical methods where you tether into the saddle and the stirrup, stand up, wrap your non-stirrup foot around the tree, and advance your saddle tether. It was super fiddly for me and I was really unstable the whole time. I got exhausted quickly, and advancing the tether took forever while I was bracing myself with my legs. I had multiple kickouts on my foot while advancing my tether (probably while leaning sideways one way or the other trying to get the tether up).

I recognize my technique is 100% to blame here I'm sure, but it was enough for me to give up on it for now and keep hauling in sticks. But now I'm looking at that second foot loop/stirrup they sent and thinking... instead of standing on one foot and wrapping my other leg around the tree and just try to balance on one point like that, what if I just stood naturally?

Here's what I want to try. My saddle already has a lineman's belt on it. I approach the tree and set up my saddle tether on top like normal and the foot tether on bottom. I attach both stirrups to the foot tether at the same height, and I run some webbing or a short sling between the stirrups to attach them together so they can't go all the way around the tree. I hook my lineman's around the tree.

From there, I would tighten my tether so my saddle takes my weight and place my feet in the stirrups. I then stand in both stirrups with my feet on either side of the tree, kind of straddling it so neither foot can kick out. Tethering the feet together makes them both stabilize one another. I use my lineman's belt to hold my body tight to the tree instead of having to hug it with my leg. With my feet holding my weight and my lineman's keeping me from sitting in my saddle, my hands are now free to advance the tether.

To continue up the tree, I then let slack out of the lineman's and let the saddle take my weight. Bring feet up and advance the foot tether, rinse and repeat. When at hunting height, just take your feet out of the stirrups like normal. Theoretically, the stirrups themselves could serve as a makeshift platform, though I probably wouldn't want to stand in it for long.

The advantages I see here are:

1- No balancing on one foot, having to keep that toe jammed into the tree just so in order to prevent kicking out on the foot tether. Just stand naturally with the tree in between your feet and the stirrups tethered together for natural stability. Leaning from one side to the other a little bit shouldn't result in a fall since both feet are braced against the tree.

2- Less fatigue while having to balance on one foot, hold onto the tree with the other, and advance your tether all at the same time. One leg isn't responsible for all the vertical movement, and the lineman's takes over all lateral concerns. The ropes do more work, your muscles do less.

3- No additional equipment aside from a way to tether the stirrups together.

For a visual representation, check this out. You'll see how this guy tethers his feet together, which allows him to brace the tree between his feet. Add a saddle, lineman's, and foot tether so you're not just relying on your manly physique and that's basically what I'm shooting for:

 

[gcr0003]

Alright, I have what might be a crazy idea. Figured I'd post here to see if anyone else has tried anything similar before I make a fool of myself.

I tried 2TC a couple of times last month using Custom Gear Modifications' kit with two stirrups. I tried the typical methods where you tether into the saddle and the stirrup, stand up, wrap your non-stirrup foot around the tree, and advance your saddle tether. It was super fiddly for me and I was really unstable the whole time. I got exhausted quickly, and advancing the tether took forever while I was bracing myself with my legs. I had multiple kickouts on my foot while advancing my tether (probably while leaning sideways one way or the other trying to get the tether up).

I recognize my technique is 100% to blame here I'm sure, but it was enough for me to give up on it for now and keep hauling in sticks. But now I'm looking at that second foot loop/stirrup they sent and thinking... instead of standing on one foot and wrapping my other leg around the tree and just try to balance on one point like that, what if I just stood naturally?

Here's what I want to try. My saddle already has a lineman's belt on it. I approach the tree and set up my saddle tether on top like normal and the foot tether on bottom. I attach both stirrups to the foot tether at the same height, and I run some webbing or a short sling between the stirrups to attach them together so they can't go all the way around the tree. I hook my lineman's around the tree.

From there, I would tighten my tether so my saddle takes my weight and place my feet in the stirrups. I then stand in both stirrups with my feet on either side of the tree, kind of straddling it so neither foot can kick out. Tethering the feet together makes them both stabilize one another. I use my lineman's belt to hold my body tight to the tree instead of having to hug it with my leg. With my feet holding my weight and my lineman's keeping me from sitting in my saddle, my hands are now free to advance the tether.

To continue up the tree, I then let slack out of the lineman's and let the saddle take my weight. Bring feet up and advance the foot tether, rinse and repeat. When at hunting height, just take your feet out of the stirrups like normal. Theoretically, the stirrups themselves could serve as a makeshift platform, though I probably wouldn't want to stand in it for long.

The advantages I see here are:

1- No balancing on one foot, having to keep that toe jammed into the tree just so in order to prevent kicking out on the foot tether. Just stand naturally with the tree in between your feet and the stirrups tethered together for natural stability. Leaning from one side to the other a little bit shouldn't result in a fall since both feet are braced against the tree.

2- Less fatigue while having to balance on one foot, hold onto the tree with the other, and advance your tether all at the same time. One leg isn't responsible for all the vertical movement, and the lineman's takes over all lateral concerns. The ropes do more work, your muscles do less.

3- No additional equipment aside from a way to tether the stirrups together.

For a visual representation, check this out. You'll see how this guy tethers his feet together, which allows him to brace the tree between his feet. Add a saddle, lineman's, and foot tether so you're not just relying on your manly physique and that's basically what I'm shooting for:

This is a good method for those that struggle to balance with one foot. I don’t think a linemans belt is necessary since you’re working close to the tree but it certainly would not hurt if it works for you as you’re getting comfortable with it. I’ve tried this before with two footloops and it has its benefits. Your movements can’t be extended as much but if stability is slowing you down then that’s a good trade off for some people.

@always89y @ CGM actually came up a two foot stirrup that I think would be very close what you’re describing. I can’t find it on their website but someone else can link to it here for you I’m sure.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Try it out and see if it works for you. There are a lot of ways to 2TC. You just have to find what works best. Let us know how it works.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Dont jam your foot against the tree.

It does take a few practice runs to find you balance. I found using a hand ascender helps moving your top tether easier.

 

[bluguitar89]

This is a good method for those that struggle to balance with one foot. I don’t think a linemans belt is necessary since you’re working close to the tree but it certainly would not hurt if it works for you as you’re getting comfortable with it. I’ve tried this before with two footloops and it has its benefits. Your movements can’t be extended as much but if stability is slowing you down then that’s a good trade off for some people.

@always89y @ CGM actually came up a two foot stirrup that I think would be very close what you’re describing. I can’t find it on their website but someone else can link to it here for you I’m sure.

Without a lineman's there's nothing to keep you from falling backwards while you're advancing the tether. Probably not an absolute deal breaker, but I think the added stability of a lineman's would be super helpful, especially if it's already attached to my saddle anyway. I can also just imagine the predicament you could get into if you stand up then for some reason fall backwards immediately with a bunch of slack on your tether.

Glad to hear I'm not totally crazy though haha

 

[SNIPERBBB]

How long are you running your bridge and how long is it from the girth hitch to your bridge? Sounds like theyre both too long if your falling away from the tree too much unless you're on extreme leaners

 

[Nosaj]

Wouldn't that be 3TC???

 

[bluguitar89]

How long are you running your bridge and how long is it from the girth hitch to your bridge? Sounds like theyre both too long if your falling away from the tree too much unless you're on extreme leaners

I'm using a killdeer (dryad drey at height), so there's no bridge. My impression is that you need to get the tether pretty much as high as you can reach it with each move in order to really make any progress, so I'm not sure how shortening either really helps?

 

[bluguitar89]

Wouldn't that be 3TC???

Only if you call a lineman's a tether, which I don't.

 

[bluguitar89]

Dont jam your foot against the tree.

It does take a few practice runs to find you balance. I found using a hand ascender helps moving your top tether easier.

You may need to elaborate on that. If your foot isn't against the tree, you can't stand up (unless I'm missing something). How do you incorporate a hand ascender?

 

[krub6b]

Wouldn't that be 3TC???

2TC+ is the preferred nomenclature

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[gettingstarted]

Something like this ?

 

[SNIPERBBB]

You may need to elaborate on that. If your foot isn't against the tree, you can't stand up (unless I'm missing something). How do you incorporate a hand ascender?

You are standing on the loop, you dont need the tree for that.

Hand ascender is installed on the tether about 4-6 inches below the girth hitch. Basically just gives you a easier handle to grab onto,

 

[gcr0003]

I'm using a killdeer (dryad drey at height), so there's no bridge. My impression is that you need to get the tether pretty much as high as you can reach it with each move in order to really make any progress, so I'm not sure how shortening either really helps?

This isn’t a hard and fast rule but a style of 2tc. You only need to set it as high and you can comfortably raise your foot tether while hanging. Smaller movements will be the key to you learning the mechanics of 2TC. Once you learn those mechanics a lot of things fall away as redundant or unnecessary such as 2 foot loop and lineman’s belt. Again, they have their place for some, but are not the minimum to effectively climb.

 

[gcr0003]

Without a lineman's there's nothing to keep you from falling backwards while you're advancing the tether. Probably not an absolute deal breaker, but I think the added stability of a lineman's would be super helpful, especially if it's already attached to my saddle anyway. I can also just imagine the predicament you could get into if you stand up then for some reason fall backwards immediately with a bunch of slack on your tether.

Glad to hear I'm not totally crazy though haha

When you stand you hold the side of the tree and/or the top tether. It acts as your “lineman’s belt” as you move it up the tree you can use holding your tether as you move it up to hold yourself close to the tree.

I personally don’t like the leg wrap on the tree unless I’m on the bottom side of a leaning tree (which I tend to avoid). You can see in the video above I use the side of my right foot to keep my balance

 

[gcr0003]

Another great example of @phatkaw using his two hands to keep himself stable annd pull himself up until he grabs the top tether and moves it up. You realize you’re not staying in these positions long and a LB is not needed.

 

[Sziggy2.0]

I have had the same thought but haven't tried it yet. Basically you would be climbing the tree in same fashion as a climbing tree stand but with "soft" and much lighter gear. I think it would just fine with practice.

 

[WannaBMonkey]

I attempted something nearly identical to what you described, including the connection between the feet. I was sure it would work. PITA!!! By the time my feet were 3 feet off the ground, I was exhausted and sweating like a pig! I went back to my WE Steps and never looked back. Maybe just because I'm old and not as agile as I never really was!

 

[HuumanCreed]

Alright, I have what might be a crazy idea. Figured I'd post here to see if anyone else has tried anything similar before I make a fool of myself.

I tried 2TC a couple of times last month using Custom Gear Modifications' kit with two stirrups. I tried the typical methods where you tether into the saddle and the stirrup, stand up, wrap your non-stirrup foot around the tree, and advance your saddle tether. It was super fiddly for me and I was really unstable the whole time. I got exhausted quickly, and advancing the tether took forever while I was bracing myself with my legs. I had multiple kickouts on my foot while advancing my tether (probably while leaning sideways one way or the other trying to get the tether up).

I recognize my technique is 100% to blame here I'm sure, but it was enough for me to give up on it for now and keep hauling in sticks. But now I'm looking at that second foot loop/stirrup they sent and thinking... instead of standing on one foot and wrapping my other leg around the tree and just try to balance on one point like that, what if I just stood naturally?

Here's what I want to try. My saddle already has a lineman's belt on it. I approach the tree and set up my saddle tether on top like normal and the foot tether on bottom. I attach both stirrups to the foot tether at the same height, and I run some webbing or a short sling between the stirrups to attach them together so they can't go all the way around the tree. I hook my lineman's around the tree.

From there, I would tighten my tether so my saddle takes my weight and place my feet in the stirrups. I then stand in both stirrups with my feet on either side of the tree, kind of straddling it so neither foot can kick out. Tethering the feet together makes them both stabilize one another. I use my lineman's belt to hold my body tight to the tree instead of having to hug it with my leg. With my feet holding my weight and my lineman's keeping me from sitting in my saddle, my hands are now free to advance the tether.

To continue up the tree, I then let slack out of the lineman's and let the saddle take my weight. Bring feet up and advance the foot tether, rinse and repeat. When at hunting height, just take your feet out of the stirrups like normal. Theoretically, the stirrups themselves could serve as a makeshift platform, though I probably wouldn't want to stand in it for long.

The advantages I see here are:

1- No balancing on one foot, having to keep that toe jammed into the tree just so in order to prevent kicking out on the foot tether. Just stand naturally with the tree in between your feet and the stirrups tethered together for natural stability. Leaning from one side to the other a little bit shouldn't result in a fall since both feet are braced against the tree.

2- Less fatigue while having to balance on one foot, hold onto the tree with the other, and advance your tether all at the same time. One leg isn't responsible for all the vertical movement, and the lineman's takes over all lateral concerns. The ropes do more work, your muscles do less.

3- No additional equipment aside from a way to tether the stirrups together.

For a visual representation, check this out. You'll see how this guy tethers his feet together, which allows him to brace the tree between his feet. Add a saddle, lineman's, and foot tether so you're not just relying on your manly physique and that's basically what I'm shooting for:

You should check out another pretty popular 2TC advocate on youtube, Apex Predator Outdoors. He kind of does a 2 stirrups system where he is real close to the tree all the time. He's not a part of the forum (I think) so most question has to be via youtube but his his system work really well for him.

One major criticism of his system is that its too complicated in its design. But it works for him and it might help with some of your issue.

From this video, you can see that he never really put any weight on the prussic that is attach to his harness. At all time his weight is supported at the feet. At the end, his trick with the carabiner turning the 2 foot aider into a sladder like support is pretty cool too.

 

[Empostarr]

Big guy here (6'3", 315#, 41 yrs) that went thru all of these things. I love the idea of 2TC, but found myself having a hard time balancing on one foot using a footloop I made from tubular webbing and a piece of hose to keep it open. It was a pain in my arch to stand for any length of time while trying to move my tether up. So then I made it a two foot stirrup which was may more stable, but as pointed out, it really limits how high you can go unless you revert to initially standing on one foot and then sliding your other foot in once you're standing. It was still uncomfortable with the one I made, so I ordered a CGM footloop as the stirrups were no longer on their site. Instead of a linemans, I have a prussik at the top of my foot tether to clip into my short bridge while standing to keep me close to the tree.

Here's the thing: After all of that, short moves and standing on just one foot in the CGM foot loop is all I do now. I still have the prussik in case I have to pass limbs, but what I've found to work is this: Once standing, I hold myself to the tree with my left hand while advancing the front of my tether up the tree using the carabiner (quick link if you're using one), then I'll slide my left hand up the back of the tree pushing the back of the tether up. I use my non looped foot on the side of the tree for stability. The biggest thing though as others have said, is smaller moves. Trying to go as high as you can makes it harder.

But that's part of the fun. Experiment. Try different things. Use what works for you.