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A Knaider Tip

P

Peterk1234

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Massachusetts
I was up a bunch of trees this weekend during my scouting and tree prep outings. Climbing one of the trees I had something kind of dawn on me that certainly made my life easier. So I thought I would share. Really, the only challenge I encounter when using the Swaider/knaider combo is linemans length. Too short and there is not enough room to hook the knee. When this happens I just grab the ropeman1 on the lineman belt and let a little out. Not a big deal, but still not perfect; and quite frankly feels a bit sketchy because I have all my weight on the swaider and I am about let go with one hand (breaking my rule of three solid points of contact at all times). When the lineman is too long, I end up using my arms to pull my self in, the lineman goes slack, then slips down. I either readjust the belt or just haul myself up and hope the lineman follows me.

Then it hit me. Before hooking up the Swaider just take the knaider leg, bring it up so your thigh is perpendicular to the tree and set the linemans belt so your knee is about two to three inches from the tree. Then put the foot back down, hook the Swaider, and off you go. Worked like a charm, every time. The move takes about two seconds to do. Basically, what I was doing is setting up so my knee is at the perfect distance from the rung on the step every time.

I figure I am not the only one that encounters this problem every once in a while. Pete
 
Keep up the good work Pete! I’m going to give this a try. Sketchy linemans belt lengths are the reason I’m only using the knaider and no swaider right now.
 
redsquirrel said:
Keep up the good work Pete! I’m going to give this a try. Sketchy linemans belt lengths are the reason I’m only using the knaider and no swaider right now.
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I am doing the same thing for now. I can get to 20' with 6 steps. That is plenty high for 99% of the places I will hunt.

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
 
I stopped using the swaider last weekend too. Still not comfortable with the Swaider after my incident a couple of weeks ago. I've been thinking a strap on the Swadier like on the Knaider may be a good idea. I will try and implement that tomorrow if possible.
 
Good advice. I do something a bit different. I actually purposely set my linesman a bit long when it’s set just above perpendicular with the tree. I do this because it makes it a bit easier with the extra room for me to get the knaider hooked up. Before I make the move for the swaider I flip my linesman up higher on the tree and this shortens the distance of my waist to the tree and brings me close enough to get the knaider on hook. If I’m still a touch long I pull in on my linesman. Also I’m not using my hands to stay in contact with the tree. My hands are being used to ensure proper positioning of the linesman. After each step the linesman is advanced and I use the leverage of leaning back into my belt to drive up the next step. This technique is much like climbing with spikes. Three points of contact is still the rule but your three points are the linesman belt for 1 and 2 and then whichever foot is engaged at the time. The reason I do this is because when I learned to climb trees I was instructed to never have the linesman below your center of gravity and if your advancing up the tree with your hands on the tree and not advancing the linesman then it ends up below your waist on the tree. This is a potential disaster if you happen to slip or a component breaks because the linesman isn’t going to stop your momentum for at least a couple feet but maybe not at all! The idea with the linesman is that it creates a fulcrum with the other side of the tree and your weight. If the linesman starts below you when u start to fall there is the potential for the minesman to “free fall” with you all the way to the bottom. I’ve seen a few videos of people allowing their linesman to get below them and loose while advancing up the tree and every time someone allows that to happen they are endangering themselves by possibly eliminating the only safety device that they are currently attached to in order to grab the tree with their hands. Think about it like this; if something happens, your feet kick out or something fails, what would you rather be relying on to stop your fall? Your hands touching the tree? Or a properly positioned linesman belt? I’ll try to make a video demonstrating the difference and how a linesman will slow and hopefully stop a fall. Seriously though guys, if that linesman is below your waist at any point during the climb it isn’t going to do you any good if something happens.
 
I was having a heck of a time climbing today. Definitely need more practice. Comically had my knaider kick out while demoing the setup to a friend. Alas poor d_rek was dangling. Thank goodness for the linemans belt!!
 
This gentleman has terrible technique going up as well but let’s lets his linesman get below his center of gravity on the way down. When his spike kicks out you get to see what I’m talking about with the linesman not helping you if it’s not above your center of gravity and under tension while in the tree.
 
@Jgetch , I really like your post. I have talked a bit in other threads about leaning back on the lineman as being the key to easy climbing; I never thought of using the word fulcrum! That word nails it perfectly. It is nice to hear that someone who was actually taught how to use a lineman's belt to climb is actually doing it. At least I know I am on the right track. I will have to go out and try keeping my hands on the lineman when moving up and down. That will definitely take a bit of getting used to, but I understand the logic behind it. That was a great post. Thank you. Pete
 
Jgetch said:
Good advice. I do something a bit different. I actually purposely set my linesman a bit long when it’s set just above perpendicular with the tree. I do this because it makes it a bit easier with the extra room for me to get the knaider hooked up. Before I make the move for the swaider I flip my linesman up higher on the tree and this shortens the distance of my waist to the tree and brings me close enough to get the knaider on hook. If I’m still a touch long I pull in on my linesman. Also I’m not using my hands to stay in contact with the tree. My hands are being used to ensure proper positioning of the linesman. After each step the linesman is advanced and I use the leverage of leaning back into my belt to drive up the next step. This technique is much like climbing with spikes. Three points of contact is still the rule but your three points are the linesman belt for 1 and 2 and then whichever foot is engaged at the time. The reason I do this is because when I learned to climb trees I was instructed to never have the linesman below your center of gravity and if your advancing up the tree with your hands on the tree and not advancing the linesman then it ends up below your waist on the tree. This is a potential disaster if you happen to slip or a component breaks because the linesman isn’t going to stop your momentum for at least a couple feet but maybe not at all! The idea with the linesman is that it creates a fulcrum with the other side of the tree and your weight. If the linesman starts below you when u start to fall there is the potential for the minesman to “free fall” with you all the way to the bottom. I’ve seen a few videos of people allowing their linesman to get below them and loose while advancing up the tree and every time someone allows that to happen they are endangering themselves by possibly eliminating the only safety device that they are currently attached to in order to grab the tree with their hands. Think about it like this; if something happens, your feet kick out or something fails, what would you rather be relying on to stop your fall? Your hands touching the tree? Or a properly positioned linesman belt? I’ll try to make a video demonstrating the difference and how a linesman will slow and hopefully stop a fall. Seriously though guys, if that linesman is below your waist at any point during the climb it isn’t going to do you any good if something happens.
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Where is that damn 'super like' button?
 
Another thing you can do that has been discussed here before, is to cross over your leads on the linemans belt when attaching to your saddle. In the event of a fall it is more likely to "grab" if the leads are crossed after passing it around the tree. In other words attach your left side of lineman's belt, cross in front of the tree and pass it around tree from right to left then cross over in front of tree and attach to right side.
 
Nice post @Jgetch. That guy had more going wrong than just a linesmans belt. Linesmans belt adjustment is why I love the ropeman1. I can add slack when I need it and tighten it when I need it. Most of the trees I climb grip a linesmans belt pretty well. You point out how important the placement of the linesmans belt is and your 100 percent correct. That’s why I am reluctant to move to the knaider swaider method and the multi step aiders on sticks. The sticks aren’t that bad because you aren’t relying on your linesmans belt as points of contact. I see way too many guys who will climb a three or four step aider and not move there linesmans belt until they are on the stick. At some point when using aiders your foot will kick out. You have to be prepared for it. That’s why currently my step spacing is determined by how far I can attach the second step. I intend to experiment with the knaider/swaider because it seems like once you get the knaider hooked it should be pretty stable but who knows until you try it. I read a post the other day someone said the knaider was attached when their foot kicked out. A hand on each side of the tree or on the linesmans belt is only stable when your in a vertical position. If your foot kicks out to the side Your not going to hold yourself straight with just a hand on each side of the tree. Basically that leaves you relying on your lb as fall protection not just work positioning.
 
So far the only way I could even imagine kickout on the knaider is if I were to lean forward into the tree, thus unweighting the toe or a leaning tree. The first is almost impossible if you use the LB as a fulcrum (love the analogy @Jgetch ). The leaning tree is a different ball game though. It is even trickier with the Swaider, as length of an aider, I find, adds potential instability. I do not have an issue with a tree directly leaning away from me, but if it is going right to left then I really have to counteract the pull. It is not fun and I try to avoid it all costs. There are times at ground level that I have to deal with it (forked tree), but I immediately take that second step and shift it over as much as possible so the tree is leaning directly away from me. I will never ever place a step up high if I have a right or left lean. Very important to get around that tree into the right spot asap. Man, I just realized I am spending way too much time climbing in my free time.
 
This is why I keep trying new methods but ultimately come back to my modified heliums with one moveable aider.... Since I am in a new to me tree about 70% of the time, I have to have a system that works no matter what tree I need to climb. And attaching them to my pack vertically they don't hang up on brush.
 
@Peterk1234 The kickout can occur if you're an amatuer like myself haha...

I suspect the issue may have also had something to do with choice of footwear (not crocs). I wear keens with the iconic rubberized toe box. The tread is pretty worn on the bottom too. So with my foot in the Knaider and toe resting on the tree it was wanting to slip out because the material is smoother without much grip. All it took was shifting weight the wrong way trying to ascend and it kicked out on me. Left foot was in the stirrup of the Swaider and LB was connected around head height. I think another problem was I may not have been leaning far enough back. I think i'll need a lot more practice if i'm going to take this into the woods this year.
 
DaveT1963 said:
This is why I keep trying new methods but ultimately come back to my modified heliums with one moveable aider.... Since I am in a new to me tree about 70% of the time, I have to have a system that works no matter what tree I need to climb. And attaching them to my pack vertically they don't hang up on brush.
Click to expand...

There is something to be said of the simplicity of the sticks. I demo'd my LW sticks with single step aiders to a friend yesterday and it was bing-bang-boom up in a tree in no time.
 
Dave that’s a valid point on the sticks. You gave a handhold on the stick at least to the point you step onto the bottom step. Same way with the way I use the wild edge. I have the top step to hold onto until I’m firmly on the lower step at which point I tighten my linesmans up to keep me very close to the tree as I tie the next one on. Getting 5-6 feet per step with the knaider/swaider is very appealing though. Some people simply have more balance than others. I’m big clumsy and have a healthy respect for hitting the ground at a high rate of speed. At saddlepalooza @Jcar was getting 5-6 feet per step using only the wild edge aider. She was actually able to tie a wild edge step on while standing with one foot in the aider. This was the first time she had even held the stepps. For her the knaider swaider would probably be not only safe but probably ideal for her. I personally am not comfortable not holding onto something while standing in an aider.
 
I occasionally have an issue with my foot trying to turn sideways as I'm putting my weight on it. When it happens, it causes my foot to swing out to the side and makes for an awkward climb. I assume it's a combination of big feet (size 14), stiff boots that won't allow the toe to curl up against the tree, and a bad case of bigassitis, causing my foot to pivot on the toe. I'm going to practice with a different pair of boots and see if that helps. I love this system, and the fact that I can literally cut my setup weight by five pounds by using it.
 
Peterk1234 said:
So far the only way I could even imagine kickout on the knaider is if I were to lean forward into the tree, thus unweighting the toe or a leaning tree. The first is almost impossible if you use the LB as a fulcrum (love the analogy @Jgetch ). The leaning tree is a different ball game though. It is even trickier with the Swaider, as length of an aider, I find, adds potential instability. I do not have an issue with a tree directly leaning away from me, but if it is going right to left then I really have to counteract the pull. It is not fun and I try to avoid it all costs. There are times at ground level that I have to deal with it (forked tree), but I immediately take that second step and shift it over as much as possible so the tree is leaning directly away from me. I will never ever place a step up high if I have a right or left lean. Very important to get around that tree into the right spot asap. Man, I just realized I am spending way too much time climbing in my free time.
Click to expand...
Agree 100%. This is the other big issue. Just because we have all these great climbing devices doesn’t mean they’re perfect for every tree. I haven’t yet found a tree I wouldn’t be able to safely set up with the k/s system but the important thing is to get comfortable enough with the system to know what it is and isn’t good at. For leaning trees with the k/s I’ve found it best to set up the tree on the high side and then rotate to where I want to be at height. Generally speaking though there isn’t a climbing system I’ve seen that generates confidence on the side lean. If your looking at a tree and it’s leaning left to right or opposite I’d walk around the tree until it looks straight up and down. This is almost always the best spot to climb the tree. Final positioning desired at the top of a climb shouldn’t be a factor when considering the best side of a tree to climb up. Once we’re up and tethered were safe. It’s the up and down when people get hurt.
Wanted to say too, all great stuff guys! Love the attitude towards safety here. With a bit of knowledge and a little work on technique we all will be able to walk out of the woods every day.
 
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