Adding another aider step to knaider/swaider

[Peterk1234]

@Peterk1234 have you thought about using a red squirrel aider as the swaider? After @swampsnyper came out with the swaider I added that to the red squirrel aider (before I knew it was called a swaider! ). Now I have added your knaider. So my current setup is an adjustable redsquirrel aider with a castration band swaider and a carabiner to hook into the stepp with the knaider on the other leg. I'm 5'6" and I can cam the stepp over just above my head, probably at 6'. The red squirrel aider allows me to add a little more height for just the cost of the ascender on a rope. I noticed that you mentioned in your video you could pull your leg up with the swaider. It's the same concept but I can pull my leg even a little higher with the redsquirrel aider.

I have but I found the girth hitch around the tree a bit slower. Add a branch, and now I am dealing with removing the rope to get around it. Using the Steps as the mechanism I hook to is very fast and simple. Plus I have decided that there is a big convenience factor of not working above my head while climbing, and the shorter aiders are much more stable. Now, if I were to use strap on steps like in a video I saw of you, it would be a different story. I have been tempted to use your system only to climb (maybe two of them), just to see what it would be like to only climb with aiders. Now that I am super comfortable with the swaider/knaider and have my climbing system wired, it is time to just go play with other ideas like yours Pete

 

[g2outdoors]

I agree with Peter. The KN/SW is an elegant, simple solution good enough for me. I also tried adding a third aider into the mix and I didn't like it at all.

I think Dave is right. In the dark, in the cold, on a weird tree, close to deer, the third aider complicates things too much for me.

The traditional KN/SW is awesome. And for only 5 lbs, that's a significant weight savings since my Muddy/aider combos are closer to 9 lbs.

Sent from my Galaxy S8.

 

[redsquirrel]

I have but I found the girth hitch around the tree a bit slower. Add a branch, and now I am dealing with removing the rope to get around it. Using the Steps as the mechanism I hook to is very fast and simple. Plus I have decided that there is a big convenience factor of not working above my head while climbing, and the shorter aiders are much more stable. Now, if I were to use strap on steps like in a video I saw of you, it would be a different story. I have been tempted to use your system only to climb (maybe two of them), just to see what it would be like to only climb with aiders. Now that I am super comfortable with the swaider/knaider and have my climbing system wired, it is time to just go play with other ideas like yours Pete

I wasn't girth hitching it to the tree in this purpose, just connecting to the stepp like you. Anyways I was out fooling around with this this morning and I decided that the adjustable aider doesn't work great in this application. Going up was fine but coming down was a problem. With my aider going down I can take big steps because I loosen up the ascender and then let it catch and step down onto the lower step. With the knaider I can't step down that far because I need to be able to stand on my left leg and still have enough room to lift my right knee high enough to get the hook off the step. I like this knaider setup a lot, I just went out and build another one and a swaider with an adjuster so I can fine tune my lengths.

 

[redsquirrel]

I wanted to bump this back up. @Peterk1234 did you ever try this anymore.

The other day I'm driving home from work and I got an idea. I was stable climbing with the 5 step aider and knaider but the steps are short and I would view it as a early season system only because I can't see fishing my big boots into the small aider holes. I worked some stuff out in my head and went home and built a longer aider with the knaider built into it so that I could go aider, aider, knaider. I went out in the backyard, set up a step above my head and went aider, aider, knaider. Beautiful! I'm hanging there and go to myself, dummy, this is the double swaider with knaider! It was so simple, I can definitely make that system work. I believe when I gave up on the swaider right before the season I was trying to put my stepp too high. I'm short with short legs. I was able to put the stepp around 6 foot with this method. I also felt comfortable moving my lineman's belt up while I was standing on 2 aiders rather than just 1. The only thing I'll modify is I think I'll go with 2 separate swaiders and a separate knaider. It was too much going on having the long swaider and knaider combined. I only went 1 stepp up but I wanted to bump this again, I think this has potential as we've gotten more comfortable with the system. It's a long offseason!

 

[benny a gregoire jr.]

I wanted to bump this back up. @Peterk1234 did you ever try this anymore.

The other day I'm driving home from work and I got an idea. I was stable climbing with the 5 step aider and knaider but the steps are short and I would view it as a early season system only because I can't see fishing my big boots into the small aider holes. I worked some stuff out in my head and went home and built a longer aider with the knaider built into it so that I could go aider, aider, knaider. I went out in the backyard, set up a step above my head and went aider, aider, knaider. Beautiful! I'm hanging there and go to myself, dummy, this is the double swaider with knaider! It was so simple, I can definitely make that system work. I believe when I gave up on the swaider right before the season I was trying to put my stepp too high. I'm short with short legs. I was able to put the stepp around 6 foot with this method. I also felt comfortable moving my lineman's belt up while I was standing on 2 aiders rather than just 1. The only thing I'll modify is I think I'll go with 2 separate swaiders and a separate knaider. It was too much going on having the long swaider and knaider combined. I only went 1 stepp up but I wanted to bump this again, I think this has potential as we've gotten more comfortable with the system. It's a long offseason!

I do this! It is stable. Only trouble i have is in hip boots.

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[Peterk1234]

I think you and I are thinking of the same thing. I have not done it yet because I swore to myself no playing around until hunting season is over. I have been thinking of making a long knaider with a carabiner about half way up the strap, then the hook at the end. I would hook into the step with the knaider's carabiner, move up, then clip the swaider in. Unclip the carabiner of the knaider, move up, hook in the knaider with the hook at the end.

In theory, it would let me set a step as far as I can reach, eliminating one step to get to around 21 feet (I would be down to three) I am not suree it is worth it because the knaider/swaider is just so safe and stable, and I can tie the steps plenty quick. But it will be fun to test it. I have tried a long aider (whoopie sling) then swaider, then knaider. Problem was that it was just too busy and too many things to hook onto a step. I did not like it.

Is that what you are doing? Pete

 

[redsquirrel]

Is that what you are doing? Pete

I think we're saying the same thing. On the left foot is a normal swaider. On the right foot is a knaider except instead of the knaider ending at the knee, the knaider hook is sewn in between two pieces of webbing and those 2 pieces continue up until at the top there is a carabiner. So I would hook the long knaider carabiner in while raising my right leg, step up, hook the left leg swaider biner in, remove the right leg long knaider biner and raise my right leg to hook the knaider on to the step.

 

[Peterk1234]

I think we're saying the same thing. On the left foot is a normal swaider. On the right foot is a knaider except instead of the knaider ending at the knee, the knaider hook is sewn in between two pieces of webbing and those 2 pieces continue up until at the top there is a carabiner. So I would hook the long knaider carabiner in while raising my right leg, step up, hook the left leg swaider biner in, remove the right leg long knaider biner and raise my right leg to hook the knaider on to the step.

Yup

I will be testing it out soon and will make a vid.

 

[EricS]

I just tried the knaider with five step aider and had major malfunctions with my knaider. It was the first time I had worn it with knee pads and it wanted to work lower and lower on the pad as I climbed. It also came off my foot a couple times. I need to make some adjustments. I’m thinking sticks next year with aider. A three step aider with 18 inch steps would be really nice and not much harder to make the stepps. I can get my size 13 rubber boots in and out of a five step with no problem but a three step with 18 inch steps it should be easier but still easy to climb. That moveable aider and a two foot helium should get me 8 foot per stick. If I needed more height I could always hook my aider onto my tether once I was on top of the third stick and get a few more feet easily. I like the way this is going. Keep it up.

 

[benny a gregoire jr.]

I think we're saying the same thing. On the left foot is a normal swaider. On the right foot is a knaider except instead of the knaider ending at the knee, the knaider hook is sewn in between two pieces of webbing and those 2 pieces continue up until at the top there is a carabiner. So I would hook the long knaider carabiner in while raising my right leg, step up, hook the left leg swaider biner in, remove the right leg long knaider biner and raise my right leg to hook the knaider on to the step.

Exactly what I do. I used Amsteel for my swaider on my knaider. I made a Dog-bone with the amsteel. I Fished the eye of one end through the back of my Knaider hook and placed it over the hook, so it is modular.

 

[Kurt]

Yup

I will be testing it out soon and will make a vid.

I think it's the next logical step in knaider/swaider development. I believe it answers the questions being asked in the 5 step aider/knaider technique. 1- foot spacing between steps. 2- fishing around to get hunting boots into steps. 3-long aider stability. You would only be taking one step on the long aider, and its the first step for the new tie in, whether it's from the ground to the first step, or from one step to the next. That seems to me like it would be more stable. Plus I like the fact that your foot is captured in the loop. That's where stability, and time savings will come from,over the 5 step method. Your still reaching up over your head to tie on the WE step. For me that's still only 7 feet. But that's 21 feet with 3 steps plus, another foot and a half up to the platform. Not to shabby. IMO. I will also say. I've been working the 5 step aider/swaider method pretty regularly, and I am finding it a good way to climb. Also Pete, on the knaider extension, you could use another hook instead of a carabiner, because the swaider carabiner would be hooked before you unload the extension hook on the knaider. I picture it like this...... hook the knaider extension, step up. Hook the swaider carabiner, step up just enough to unload the hook,then unhook the the extension. Now for me because i always wear the same pack out. I'm going to add a 550 loop to the shoulder strap of my pack. I'll store it there. Step up fully, hook the knaider. Repeat. Something like that.

 

[Dale Rheaume]

You guys are amazing me with all this clever ingenuity! In six months time I wouldn’t be surprised if we are climbing 30 feet with one step in 30 seconds Keep up the great work! Sorry I can’t offer anything else but encouragement. My K/S and Stepps are on the way!


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[benny a gregoire jr.]

I think it's the next logical step in knaider/swaider development. I believe it answers the questions being asked in the 5 step aider/knaider technique. 1- foot spacing between steps. 2- fishing around to get hunting boots into steps. 3-long aider stability. You would only be taking one step on the long aider, and its the first step for the new tie in, whether it's from the ground to the first step, or from one step to the next. That seems to me like it would be more stable. Plus I like the fact that your foot is captured in the loop. That's where stability, and time savings will come from,over the 5 step method. Your still reaching up over your head to tie on the WE step. For me that's still only 7 feet. But that's 21 feet with 3 steps plus, another foot and a half up to the platform. Not to shabby. IMO. I will also say. I've been working the 5 step aider/swaider method pretty regularly, and I am finding it a good way to climb. Also Pete, on the knaider extension, you could use another hook instead of a carabiner, because the swaider carabiner would be hooked before you unload the extension hook on the knaider. I picture it like this...... hook the knaider extension, step up. Hook the swaider carabiner, step up just enough to unload the hook,then unhook the the extension. Now for me because i always wear the same pack out. I'm going to add a 550 loop to the shoulder strap of my pack. I'll store it there. Step up fully, hook the knaider. Repeat. Something like that.

I would advise against the hook on the long swaider as you suggested. I was climbing a smooth bark tree in the rain, my toe slipped from the tree. I was glad to be hooked on with a load rated carabiner. I had my linemans belt on, and i had already clipped in to my swaider. It didnt result in a fall, but idk if a hook would have held on.

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[Kurt]

The hooks are very deep and rated at 3000 lbs. It would definitely be a personal choice. I cut half the hook off my knaider and went sideways when I was first learning and I couldn't get to unhook. I had to slip my foot out of my swaider foot loop to get a foot back down. Most use plastic buckles on their knaider calf straps. IMO that's going to be the weak link. I practiced with a hook today on a knaider extension. Hook or biner either one.