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Amsteel Daisy Chain vs Daisy Chain Webbing vs Rope mod vs Cam Straps

DOMMA

DOMMA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
280
A quick comparison of different ways to secure your sticks to the tree.

1. Cam Strap - the standard strap that comes with most climbing sticks. Probably best if the tree is significantly leaning. The issue, and the reason I do not like metal buckles, is that they inevitably create noise on your climb, they are bulky and heavy. Also, on long walks in rough terrain, the buckles often make noise, they are a challenge to pack tightly to insure they remain quiet.

2. Amsteel Daisy Chain - I just got in 7/64 Amsteel daisy chain from SH Member Sam Switalski at samswit10@gmail.com. This stuff is amazing, so small and light. The 7/64 has a 1600 pound weight limit, I checked because it was so small I was afraid to use it. The opening is 2.25”, perfect for versa buttons for easy on and off use. The end that attaches and doesn’t come off slides over and has a snug fit. The grip on the tree is amazing. Very easy to use. Sam ships with an elastic band on the end of each pc. so packing is a breeze. It is so small that it never interferes with the sticks stacking together. Love this stuff.

3. Daisy Chain Webbing. I got the webbing from Eastern Woods, www.doublestep.com. Very easy to use and silent. All the advantages of the Amsteel but a little bulkier. They also come with an elastic band so packing up is easy. Can also be used as an aider for climbing. May be better on large trees as throwing the webbing around the tree is a little easier because of the weight. Also, it is easier to twist the webbing a few times to insure a tight fit on the versa button. Awesome brown and green color makes them near invisible on trees. Great product.

4. Rope Mod - I personally will not use the rope mod. I enter the woods and set up early (very dark). I do not trust that I will tie the appropriate knots to insure my safety. The same reason I do not use WE steps. Mid day or afternoon, no problem, but in the dark, I struggle. I do not believe the rope mod has advantages over the Webbing or Amsteel daisy chain, so I do not prefer this option.

For me, I think the 7/64 Amsteel daisy chain is the best choice overall. I would be curious on what you all use and think is the best option.
 
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I tried Versa Straps. Didn't really care for them. Too much fiddle factor for me. Using Beast Straps with Stealth Stripped buckles now. Have to carry a few extra ounces but the noise should be a non issue with the Stealth Strips.
 
BuffaloBill said:
I tried Versa Straps. Didn't really care for them. Too much fiddle factor for me. Using Beast Straps with Stealth Stripped buckles now. Have to carry a few extra ounces but the noise should be a non issue with the Stealth Strips.
Click to expand...

Using the versa straps as designed sucks but they are great for using the buckleless method. They are thin so they cinch very tight, strong, and don't weigh anything.
 
I use daisy chain and cam buckles. I agree with all of the above. One thing I'd add though (from experience): it is very easy to dislodge a stick set with amsteel daisy chain by accidentally hitting it from the bottom. For example with your weapon or pack when pulling them up. This is especially true on smooth bark trees. Cam buckles are a bit more resistant to being accidentally dislodged. I still use amsteel but I have a practiced method of getting down if I dislodge a stick.
 
Good review, thanks for the knowledge. I used the cam buckles that came with my sticks until i recently picked up a amsteel daisy chain from @Sam Switalski as well.
I love the daisy chain, he did an excellent job with them. They are uber light, quick, unobstructive and make no noise like the metal cam buckle. They seem to fit a bit tight over the button on my 2019 helium sticks but that's not a bad thing, so I haven't had an issue with them slipping off yet. I just fit it on the next loop and pull it down, usually gives me enough room to work it. Love the fact i can throw the attached aider on my helium over my shoulder and walk in, single stick up a tree. I still carry a cam strap with me, and plan to use it as a lineman belt if need be, or JIC i need it for my stick.

The cam buckles worked fine as well, i used 2 sticks to get about 10ft up, and could girth hitch the straps with the buckle on the side of the sticks(the distance between the heliums nested together was just about right) then wrap it around the sticks tight as i could. Worked just fine, but limited me by not being able to 1 stick as easily.
 
I just started using the buckless strap method the last few sits and I love it. Much lighter than with the buckle and dead silent. I think it has advantages over the rope mod due to the webbing being lighter, less bulky, and having much less stretch and sag than rope. I think it maybe even better than the different daisy chain options because you can pull all the slack out and not worry about the link falling in the middle and having to either twist it or just have it sag a lot for the stick to set.
 
This is my preferences: platform - strap and buckle, sticks - amsteel 1/4 rope, lineman's - small ultratech w/ropeman 1, tether - predator or larger ultratech with ropeman 1
 
I just started using a DIY versa button (spacer is 3/8" of 3/8" OD copper pipe with a 1.25" fender washer) with an amsteel daisy chain (1/8" with each loop end having triple brummel locks). These dimensions are perfect for a combo rope mod with daisy chain ending. Basically a double wrapped rope mod using a daisy chain loop instead of a finishing overhand knot(s).

I pull the daisy chain tight around the tree with a good angle for the chain. I then go under the versabutton and behind the stationary end loop of amsteel, then I wrap above the versabutton and go back behind the amsteel I've brought around the tree. I then go around the stick once in the direction the amsteel is already pointing and then loop a daisy chain loop around the versabutton so that nothing can slip. With these dimensions, friction holds everything and that last daisy chain loop (which acts like a few finishing overhands on a traditional rope mod) never even gets tight on the button. It comes off the tree super easy and there is no sag from not hitting a loop perfectly. It's almost as tight as a cam buckle.

The only thing I worry about is that I wrap the amsteel around the standoffs on hawk helium sticks which are not sharp but have enough edge that after 1,000 rubs they might put a spot on the amsteel. This spring I might take the edge down with a file and paint the shiny away.
 
Another vote for daisy chains!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I settled on “buckless” method myself. Amsteel DC seems great but am perfectly satisfied with “buckless”.
 
DOMMA said:
A quick comparison of different ways to secure your sticks to the tree.

1. Cam Strap - the standard strap that comes with most climbing sticks. Probably best if the tree is significantly leaning. The issue, and the reason I do not like metal buckles, is that they inevitably create noise on your climb, they are bulky and heavy. Also, on long walks in rough terrain, the buckles often make noise, they are a challenge to pack tightly to insure they remain quiet.

2. Amsteel Daisy Chain - I just got in 7/64 Amsteel daisy chain from SH Member Sam Switalski at samswit10@gmail.com. This stuff is amazing, so small and light. The 7/64 has a 1600 pound weight limit, I checked because it was so small I was afraid to use it. The opening is 2.25”, perfect for versa buttons for easy on and off use. The end that attaches and doesn’t come off slides over and has a snug fit. The grip on the tree is amazing. Very easy to use. Sam ships with an elastic band on the end of each pc. so packing is a breeze. It is so small that it never interferes with the sticks stacking together. Love this stuff.

3. Daisy Chain Webbing. I got the webbing from Eastern Woods, www.doublestep.com. Very easy to use and silent. All the advantages of the Amsteel but a little bulkier. They also come with an elastic band so packing up is easy. Can also be used as an aider for climbing. May be better on large trees as throwing the webbing around the tree is a little easier because of the weight. Also, it is easier to twist the webbing a few times to insure a tight fit on the versa button. Awesome brown and green color makes them near invisible on trees. Great product.

4. Rope Mod - I personally will not use the rope mod. I enter the woods and set up early (very dark). I do not trust that I will tie the appropriate knots to insure my safety. The same reason I do not use WE steps. Mid day or afternoon, no problem, but in the dark, I struggle. I do not believe the rope mod has advantages over the Webbing or Amsteel daisy chain, so I do not prefer this option.

For me, I think the 7/64 Amsteel daisy chain is the best choice overall. I would be curious on what you all use and think is the best option.
Click to expand...
I Kept seeing people mentioning that they feel safe using amsteel 7/64 rope with a 1600 lbs of strength but in reality it only has 320 lbs of working strength please don't believe me and do your own research!
 
I've been tying on my sticks for nearly a decade with Amsteel rope mod and see no reason to change. there is no 'knot in the dark' issue. the knot isn't holding the stick on the tree. the locking the rope into the versa button holds it.
 
Torvic said:
I Kept seeing people mentioning that they feel safe using amsteel 7/64 rope with a 1600 lbs of strength but in reality it only has 320 lbs of working strength please don't believe me and do your own research!
Click to expand...

I have read many conflicting #s. I just read, Average Strength - 1,600 lbs. (this rating was spliced 7/64 Amsteel) What is the source of the 320# working strength?

Even if it was only 320#, many sticks only have a 350# rating.
 
Torvic said:
I Kept seeing people mentioning that they feel safe using amsteel 7/64 rope with a 1600 lbs of strength but in reality it only has 320 lbs of working strength please don't believe me and do your own research!
Click to expand...

I was just reading this.


From my understanding, you are referring to the working load limit (WLL), correct? If so, then I don't think that is working strength in the way those words would be understood by a lay audience. "Working strength" would make most people think "this thing will break if subjected to forces above this when in a work environment", which isn't the case (at least I don't think).

It might be similar to Treestand Manufacturers Association wanting a 10X safety factor (a stand rated for 300 lbs must hold at least 3,000 lbs in a test, and is why modern stands are nearly twice as heavy as vintage stands built before TMA was a thing). My lone wolf is only rated for like 300 or 350 lbs, and I have no fear that my 190 lbs will break it. You could probably hang a honda civic off of it.

So, are we just talking about safety factors that mean we should only load a rope up to like a 0.1 of what a new rope is shown to hold?
 
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hickstick said:
I've been tying on my sticks for nearly a decade with Amsteel rope mod and see no reason to change. there is no 'knot in the dark' issue. the knot isn't holding the stick on the tree. the locking the rope into the versa button holds it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I spent all day splicing 5 daisy chains each 7 foot long, and now I'm basically using them as a rope mod. Oh well. That doubled line (with bumps from the brummel locks) behind the button really locks in nice though, but never tried the single line. I might with 1/4" and a spliced end.
 
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The first go a couple weeks back with Amsteel daisy chains I wasn't a fan although I wouldn't toss the idea without giving it a fair chance. Yesterday was the 7th sit with them and I can say they are coming off and I will be going back to a single rope mod. They are light weight sure, but that can have disadvantages in itself when tryin to throw it around a tree. I like the fact that with a rope I can press the stick against the tree, wrap the rope directly around the tree where I want, cinch it around the button and the stick is solid in place with firm pull down to set the stick. With daisy chains each stick tension is different as tree diameter goings up or down, so each stick sets differently. You don't have that with a rope mod or even a cam buckle. I would like to try some cam cleats but not going to pull a perfectly good versa button off a lone wolf stick to replace with something that does the same thing. Im keeping my eyes open for some muddy sticks instead.
 
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