Anyone use John Eberharts scent control methods?

[Bowtech12]

I will also add I do think scebtlok makes some good quality clothing. Regardless of the carbon thing
Very quiet stuff, plus you can usually find good deals in the off-season

 

[MattMan81]

Correct me if I am wrong. Seems John was taking a lot of those off private property door knocking which is a short or eazy walk I imagine. I imagine that helps keep your scent down.
He finds the big deer and hunts them.
How many came off public vs private?
Not taking away from his accomplishments. His wall speaks for it's self. Just pointing out a stroll into private property on a 40-50 deg day which in Michigan is pretty flat and fairly open Versus some of you guys who are pounding the mountains or trekking miles deep into public.
Most places in Michigan not the UP it's hard to walk more than a mile with out hitting the end of public or a seasonal road. Let along the lower half of the state where at anytime your probably with in 500 yards of a house. So you may not need to eliminate all your scent completely because there is always some stinky human in the breeze.
I'm in the hunt how it makes you happy camp.

 

[USSHornet]

I’m lucky enough to have picked up an extensive amount of ScentLok gear along with all his complete regimen from the classifieds here and I can say that I’m likely going to fall in the most common camp; I will incorporate as much as I can without getting in way above my waders but I’m not willing/able to do some of the things required.

This topic is so incredibly divisive I actually stopped reading threads on it for a bit, our normally civil board turns into a madhouse and some folks get just downright cruel. In the end I went back and read a lot and think the main points for MOST folks continue to be:

1) Adding or having some sort of scent control doesn’t hurt.
2) You should still play the wind when possible.
3) You can get good deals on Scentlok when they have sales or you find a member you trust took care of their gear making some changes in the classifieds.

After that it’s just a bunch of police dog scent training, farts and bad breath, and unprovable monetary challenges. Sorry for the long post and most importantly, Welcome to Thunderdome.

I’ve dropped podcasts over the personal remarks, uninformed by the way, about John. I feel like most like 99% of them are just echoing big brand folks throwing shade because they have no clue how extensive his regimen is. If someone says they disagree without going to the gutter I have no issue with disagreement.


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[EricS]

I’ve never taken it as far as John. I don’t shave my body hair and change my diet for deer season. I also believe a scentlok suit last me one to two seasons tops because I can’t get away with not washing mine in our southern temps. I can say I went a year or two without having a deer blow down wind of me and out of sight. This year they never had my size on clearance and I didn’t replace any. So deer started blowing again.

 

[HuskerInIowa]

I’ve dropped podcasts over the personal remarks, uninformed by the way, about John. I feel like most like 99% of them are just echoing big brand folks throwing shade because they have no clue how extensive his regimen is. If someone says they disagree without going to the gutter I have no issue with disagreement.


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I’m too new to the board to say with certainty but lots of reading leads me to believe that both sides would likely take a more polite and hopefully productive approach than occurred toward the end of those threads but it’s the internet so I could be wrong. He puts big bucks down with regularity and offers up his way to do so, some good insight can be found.

From there it’s my opinion most of us would be better served to say nothing at all or thank you and be on our way and his ways would’ve been looked on in a more favorable light had he not engaged some detractors in the mannor he did.

I still hope he returns to the boards. Overall I think the message is more important than the delivery and he moved the pursuit forward.

 

[Jammintree]

I minimize my odor and play the wind. If I was retired and in better financial health I might make great efforts to reduce scent. It’s also my option that there is no such thing as “scent free”, just scent reduction.

 

[neonomad]

I’m two years into doing about 65% of what John does. So far antecdotal results have been good. I won’t sit a bad wind but I’ll sit a marginal wind, and that of course assumes I know which way the deer are coming from and that’s never a guarantee. As for playing the wind, on any given day the wind will usually eliminate at least half of my hunting spots so if John truly doesn’t worry about, that’s a big advantage. Not playing the wind def would open up far more options. I have to imagine someone who can execute his system is probably pretty good at working other details that lead to successful hunts, as well.

 

[mschultz373]

there's a great Southern Outdoorsmen podcast (#315) with Tom Brownley, a university prof who has extensive research in effective drug dog training and is a big game hunter. some of the facts I found fascinating from that conversation:

- all human body odor scent molecules only survive about 10min before they are eaten by bacteria
- all plants that are disturbed/touched release scent molecules for up to 64 days after the disturbance as a signal from their cell walls that they need repairs (anything you touch, ground disturbed, etc)
- drug dogs can find and indicate on 1oz of dope hidden in a car, under sheet metal, inside of a jug of oil, and vacuum sealed 2x. dogs are able to uniformly find/indicate the query wrapped in scentlok.
- drug dogs have ~210 million olfactory sensory neurons
- deer have around 310 million olfactory sensory neurons

 

[huntin_addict]

I’ve dropped podcasts over the personal remarks, uninformed by the way, about John. I feel like most like 99% of them are just echoing big brand folks throwing shade because they have no clue how extensive his regimen is. If someone says they disagree without going to the gutter I have no issue with disagreement.


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I can personally attest to the fact that JE will make it personal pretty fast about his methods. He was a jerk and the only guy I ever put on my ignore list here.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

But even drug dogs have limitations. Compare a drug dog to a bird dog or a hound. They don't always find game quickly. There are certain days and conditions in which they aren't as effective as another day.
They undeniably have a distance in which they can detect, meaning they can't smell what is a mile away, or maybe even 200 yards under certain conditions.
And lastly, odors have limited longevity. Less odor will dissipate sooner meaning our stands stay fresher when we leave less residual odor.
We aren't odorless but we can improve on our situation. Exactly HOW MUCH improvent depends on a lot of factors. I KNOW that doing certain odor practices has improved my odds of producing fewer odor busts. It's not 100% but it's far better than it used to be for me.

 

[Seekbigger]

For me personally having trained scent dogs my whole life and understanding that deer have greater nose power than dogs I mostly play the wind! I own some scent loc clothing which I like but not for the carbon, just like the fit and material! That being said I do take precaution to avoid going into stores in my hunting gear, pumping gas, eating my breakfast and so on! I use scent free detergent, scent free soap showers, where rubber boots when possible and also use earth scent wafers to help mask my odor. The most important thing I do though is use the wind and thermals to my advantage, if they are wrong or switch on me while in my stand I leave that spot immediately, if I’m targeting a mature buck, if I’m meat hunting I’ll take the chance. I feel rubber boots only slightly help for this reason, I lay tracks all the time for German Shepherd dogs that we train and I most always wear rubber boots, these dogs will still track my trail or the trail of others from ground scent and disturbance of the earth even with so called scent free rubber boots! I kinda chuckle every time I hear someone say that rubber boots eliminates scent, I’ve never had a pair of rubber boots that the material was scent free, if I can smell it then the deer for sure can! Just my thoughts, if your not having success, change something, God Bless!

 

[Bowtech12]

What? You don’t like the “ this is how it is, end of discussion comment?” lol

 

[The_Fit_Ness_Monster]

His routine is waaayy too intensive for me idc what the results are it’s too much. I’d almost argue with John that his success has more to do with his skill as a hunter not his smell proofing though I’m sure it helps (one would think it would with all that work). And it’s crazy I’ve never known this but it just out a new perspective on it but as mentioned above deer smell better than dogs in a lot of cases, if that’s the case, as someone whose ran dogs most of my life if deer can smell better than them I’d say there nothing you can do to keep them from smelling you, as far as getting them to not smell your scent being downwind is the only chance you have. My buddy runs the chase team at Angola prison and I can tell you, there’s no fooling a dog. To that affect not all dogs are created equal either. But deer are comparable and do better than bloodhounds.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I'll give my 2 cents. This is my own experience. I played the wind for years. I still do on certain types of hunts like stalking with trad equipment. That is to keep things trad.

I had a season a few years back where in spite of doing my best I could not hunt without getting busted for scent. Time after time after time. No matter how well I set up, how I tested thermals, prevailing winds, etc, thirty minutes after getting settled in the wind would switch. It really did not matter what wind I needed. If I sat in some of these spots for an hour I would get wind from all points of the compass. Why not go somewhere where the wind was steady? Simple, no deer there. For some reason the deer hung out in these wind tunnel spots. Imagine that.

Now keep this in mind. We have very low deer density so it's not like if one busts you in the morning all you have to do is ride up the road and get on another deer. When there are 5 deer per square mile you better make it count when you can find where they are and not blow it because you may not see another deer for a week or two.

After that season I found some Scentlok on sale and bought it. It was less expensive than most of the Walmart stuff at 75% off. I bought a set and learned about how to use it (I emailed John and he sent me all his info) and the next season, under the same conditions, and the same deer, I was going unnoticed. I've had mature does downwind often enough to say that I am convinced it works. If someone else flatly refuses to believe it, that is cool with me.

I keep mine in a bin in my truck during season, I change at the truck (no big deal) and never wear it pumping gas, going in a store, etc. I wear rubber boots that get put on at the truck and taken off at the truck before leaving. I deabsorb it as needed. It's pretty simple.

Case in point. Early this season I was hunting off the ground in my Packseat. I was set up covering a narrow creek crossing that led from thick bedding to a small stand of white and red oaks along a creek. I had the wind hitting me in my face. Everything was perfect for where the deer should come from. I heard footsteps in the leaves behind me and turned in time to see two mature coyotes trotting by me at 7 yards straight downwind. They were doing that trotting gait they do when they are just happily going along without a care in the world. They trotted right by me and never skipped a beat. This was on the ground. There is no way my scent would have drifted over them, and they were 7 yards away.

Like I said, I have my system dialed in. I am not as meticulous as John is. I can say that I have not been busted by a deer for scent since I started using Scentlok. I have had different reactions from hunting hogs on the ground. They seem to catch on and have zero tolerance for scent. I feel that deer operate on a sliding scale in regard to how they tolerate scent. Big land deer who never smell people outside of hunting season are on one end of that spectrum and the park deer that will eat out of your hand are at the other.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Having a system that eliminates most of my scent has opened up the areas the deer live in for me, areas that were off limits before. Do I enjoy putting it all aside and play the wind from time to time? Sure.

 

[woodsdog2]

I will say I bought some scentlock clothing on sale last year but haven’t used it yet. Mostly as my wife and I are in a battle over the dryer. I don’t want to stick my scent loc clothes into the dryer after it’s been used with scented sheets. I was able to convince her last season to go to scent free detergent but the dryer sheets apparently are one notch too tight. I thinking I’m closing in on it though. My daughters don’t help me with that argument either btw. I say, you guys are already wearing perfumes or spray what the heck does it matter if your clothes are scent free. Perhaps it wont be so confusing

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I will say I bought some scentlock clothing on sale last year but haven’t used it yet. Mostly as my wife and I are in a battle over the dryer. I don’t want to stick my scent loc clothes into the dryer after it’s been used with scented sheets. I was able to convince her last season to go to scent free detergent but the dryer sheets apparently are one notch too tight. I thinking I’m closing in on it though. My daughters don’t help me with that argument either btw. I say, you guys are already wearing perfumes or spray what the heck does it matter if your clothes are scent free. Perhaps it wont be so confusing

I'm lucky in that regard since my wife is on the non-hypoallergenic kick so scent free detergent and what not are standard around here. However, if it meant having to buy my own dryer and put it in my shop, I'd do it, lol. That's a gear purchase I could get behind!

 

[NMSbowhunter]

His routine is waaayy too intensive for me idc what the results are it’s too much. I’d almost argue with John that his success has more to do with his skill as a hunter not his smell proofing though I’m sure it helps (one would think it would with all that work). And it’s crazy I’ve never known this but it just out a new perspective on it but as mentioned above deer smell better than dogs in a lot of cases, if that’s the case, as someone whose ran dogs most of my life if deer can smell better than them I’d say there nothing you can do to keep them from smelling you, as far as getting them to not smell your scent being downwind is the only chance you have. My buddy runs the chase team at Angola prison and I can tell you, there’s no fooling a dog. To that affect not all dogs are created equal either. But deer are comparable and do better than bloodhounds.

I don't doubt for a minute the power of a dog or deer's nose. I just seem to think there is something else going on. Maybe it is that dogs are domesticated and don't have that instant flight response to human odor that wild animals do. Trained dogs are being trained to look for certain odors and are being rewarded when they perform an action that their trainer desires. Dogs will allow human scent. Otherwise, they would not cooperate with their trainers, who are human, and would be more like a wild hog in a trap. They would bolt the instant they got the chance. I don't know, but it is always interesting to hear from people who have first hand experience with animals that have that level of smell.

I think with deer it has to do with levels of scent, parts per million, or billion as they put it. Most deer are getting some level of human scent most of the time during season. I think they have a line where enough is enough and too fresh is too fresh. It's the difference between them thinking a human was here 3 days ago to a human just walked through here or is here right now. My thoughts are that the Scentlok lowers the level of scent under most conditions to a point where it falls below the level of triggering the flight response.

 

[neonomad]

Like @NMSbowhunter, most of the deeriest spots I know of (on a piece of private) are in areas where the wind sucks for me (swirls, shifts, unfavorable thermals) that’s why I tried Scentlok in the first place. Three times last season I got into scenarios where I’m watching a deer and waiting for a bust because there’s no lifting thermals and I’m watching milkweed headed right to em. None of those deer spooked. One time I watched a two year old buck grazing toward my ground path in through the grass… I’m waiting for the bust. He didn’t even acknowledge the ground scent. I do believe in the power of the dogs / deers noses but I’m hoping to win more often with a reduced scent profile and in many cases I’m seeing interesting results.

 

[The_Fit_Ness_Monster]

I don't doubt for a minute the power of a dog or deer's nose. I just seem to think there is something else going on. Maybe it is that dogs are domesticated and don't have that instant flight response to human odor that wild animals do. Trained dogs are being trained to look for certain odors and are being rewarded when they perform an action that their trainer desires. Dogs will allow human scent. Otherwise, they would not cooperate with their trainers, who are human, and would be more like a wild hog in a trap. They would bolt the instant they got the chance. I don't know, but it is always interesting to hear from people who have first hand experience with animals that have that level of smell.

I think with deer it has to do with levels of scent, parts per million, or billion as they put it. Most deer are getting some level of human scent most of the time during season. I think they have a line where enough is enough and too fresh is too fresh. It's the difference between them thinking a human was here 3 days ago to a human just walked through here or is here right now. My thoughts are that the Scentlok lowers the level of scent under most conditions to a point where it falls below the level of triggering the flight response.

Id say you’re exactly right, same when tracking with dogs, me as the human train them to not stay on “old” scents. I’m sure deer have learned this for survival purposes and I’d bet money it definitely matters the PPM of the scent they smell before they freak or just continue on.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

Id say you’re exactly right, same when tracking with dogs, me as the human train them to not stay on “old” scents. I’m sure deer have learned this for survival purposes and I’d bet money it definitely matters the PPM of the scent they smell before they freak or just continue on.

Yes, if deer freaked out every time they ran over an old boot track or smelled a guy downwind 500 yards away they could not function. It's like people who live in war zones. At a certain point they just go on with life as best they can in spite of the danger. They learn what is imminent danger and what is just background.