• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Arrow build “middle ground”

rcleofly

New Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2019
Messages
6
I’d like to start by saying thank you to all the gentleman on this forum who have shared the wealth of knowledge on arrow weights, spine, calculations, ect. Even though I didn’t post anything the last few weeks I did spend countless hours reading old threads to obtain knowledge. Even though this is a saddle forum the amount of knowledge around arrows in old threads is incredible. I always say the smartest hunters are saddle junkies lol.

With the season approaching and guys like THP and RF pushing high FOC arrow builds a bunch of guys are going to be doing some research and “tinkering”. I recently went down the rabbit hole and spent a bunch of money, time and shot a lot of arrows lol. I figured I’d share my experience and where I ended up, especially sense you don’t see many guys who post about landing in the “middle ground” as I did.

In the past when I needed arrows I swung into the nearest archery shop and said “need arrows”. I never asked questions or knew what I was shooting. So basically I was more than likely your average bow hunter at that point.

Upon taking the plunge down the arrow build rabbit hole I learned I was shooting a 27.75” carbon to carbon 400 spine, 410 grain arrow with 100 grain head and a lighted nock @ a little under 10% FOC. I’ve been shooting bows my entire life, I was more than happy with how they performed. They came out of my bow like laser beams. I was accurate and had good flight. And by all means there is nothing wrong with shooting arrows like that if that is what you prefer, they do and will work.

So from there I built and shot them all, super heavy, super high FOC, super lite and balanced and all in between. I ended up for the most part with an arrow pretty much right smack in the middle.

340 spine carbon arrow
27.75” long carbon to carbon
75 grain brass insert
125 grain Magnus Killer bee fixed blade
3 - 2” vanes
Nocturnal lighted nock
480 grains
15% FOC

One thing I did do once landing on that build is I went to the archery shop, we knock tuned all the arrows and followed that by tuning my bow into the arrows. Bow ended up right at 67lbs draw weight. Shooting bullet holes through paper with no fletchings and broad-heads on.

I ended up with an arrow I’m extremely confident in. I have great flight out to 40 yards which is by all means is the max I’d ever shoot if I ever even do. They are still flying fast and hitting pretty hard. The point to this is when you go to build arrows your going to run into a lot of outside pressures and opinions, take your time, obtain as much knowledge as possible, have fun with it, test test and test again, be open minded and settle in on an arrow that is shooting great with your bow, that you are confident and comfortable with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

FisherHawk

Member
SH Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2020
Messages
57
Super sound build. I have done all of the similar things you have done and come to a similar solution but I am using Sevr 125 Broadhead and my arrows are a little longer with a 31" draw. Great information.
 

philsanchez76

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
May 20, 2019
Messages
762
Location
TN
Thx for sharing! My set up is almost identical to yours. I’m shooting 475 grains total weight with 16% foc. It never dawned on me to share that as I figured everyone was either doing ultra heavy or super light and fast. Middle of the road doesn’t get enough love!
 

Pooh

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2019
Messages
340
Location
Wadena MN
I'm a standard 340 with 200 up front. I'm supposed to be on the week side of the spine, but they sure fly nice bare shaft. I should be in the neighborhood of 475tow. It's been a good arrow so far
 

ThumbsMcGee

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2018
Messages
203
I think what people misunderstand (either intentionally or unintentionally) about RF is that, no one is advocating the use of 700+gr arrows on whitetail. What he and THP are advocating is beefing up the arrow to what OP calls a middle ground area.

I have a similar setup:
GT Hunter XT 300, 28.5in
100gr inserts
125gr broadhead
Zinger 4-fletch (12gr total)
Total weight: 523gr

My FOC is a tad higher than OP, but like he said the arrow flight is great out to 40. I have full confidence in this arrow.
 

kyler1945

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
4,369
Location
Baton Rouge, La.

You’ve encountered the difference between the public and the crowd. The crowd can only have one idea, and its Shouted the loudest. The public maintains it’s varied interests, and just keeps on moving along. This phenomenon can be observed in pretty much any facet of life now. But you have to look for it. Otherwise you’re just part of, or are observing the mind of the crowd.
 

rhagenw

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
815
The nay sayers of Ashby’s and Fairy’s point of view gloss over Step One shaft and head integrity Step Two arrow flight are the biggest attributes to killing efficiency...for the average white tail those are by far the most important
 

kyler1945

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
4,369
Location
Baton Rouge, La.
The nay sayers of Ashby’s and Fairy’s point of view gloss over Step One shaft and head integrity Step Two arrow flight are the biggest attributes to killing efficiency...for the average white tail those are by far the most important
I would argue that more proponents of both of those words(not the men) and the corresponding point of view gloss over those two points, more than nay sayers do.

but you’re right. Both of those things are significant pieces of the puzzle, and completely independent of mass or where it’s located.
 

Bdwilliams

Active Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2018
Messages
198
I just ordered arrows from Vector. Given my specs (55 lbs, 27.5" draw) they're building 350 spine HMR arrows cut at 27.5" with 105 grain ethics inserts and 125 gr heads (17.9% FOC, 538 gr total weight). I'm excited to see how my middle of the road build flies. Previous arrows were 400 spine shooting 100 gr heads. Not sure on FOC or total weight, but I think they're light.
 

Plebe

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
1,110
The nay sayers of Ashby’s and Fairy’s point of view gloss over Step One shaft and head integrity Step Two arrow flight are the biggest attributes to killing efficiency...for the average white tail those are by far the most important
Can you talk a little about shaft and head integrity. Are we talking HIT, Sleeves, Inserts, Outserts, Collars, glue-in, screw-in, shaft size/ferrule size? I get lost with all that stuff.

What's the best? Anyone.
 

rhagenw

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
815
Can you talk a little about shaft and head integrity. Are we talking HIT, Sleeves, Inserts, Outserts, Collars, glue-in, screw-in, shaft size/ferrule size? I get lost with all that stuff.

What's the best? Anyone.
I am new to building arrows so I am not for sure...but I’ve had bad luck with aluminum ferrule muzzys and 400 spine...went to 340 spine with 36 grain insert and slick tricks with no problems...now I’m at 300 spine with 100 grain inserts and 125 black hornets and only shot two deer and POI change very little inside of 40 so may stick with that...but I do have some logs I may lob for fun
 

Plebe

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2020
Messages
1,110
I am new to building arrows so I am not for sure...but I’ve had bad luck with aluminum ferrule muzzys and 400 spine...went to 340 spine with 36 grain insert and slick tricks with no problems...now I’m at 300 spine with 100 grain inserts and 125 black hornets and only shot two deer and POI change very little inside of 40 so may stick with that...but I do have some logs I may lob for fun
I think the @kyler1945 everyman's guide is a really sound arrow build philosophy to work from. Probably one of the most generally helpful posts bouncing around the forum, imo. It's smart and the info is pertinent for the majority of forum members, whether or not they choose to go that route. Thanks @kyler1945.

When it comes to arrow-shaft / broadhead integrity, yeah, I haven't messed around to learn what is good, better, best either. Obviously, if you go by his build plan, you use ss ethics archery halfout inserts, so I'm assuming those are good, better, or best. I tried to learn more about this aspect of archery some time ago, but failed to discover more than the anecdotal or to vest myself into any experimentation / research.

I think it's an area where assumptions are likely being made by many, and I couldn't say which way the wind blows. So yea, anyone experienced with all these connections?
 

rhagenw

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
815
I think the @kyler1945 everyman's guide is a really sound arrow build philosophy to work from. Probably one of the most generally helpful posts bouncing around the forum, imo. It's smart and the info is pertinent for the majority of forum members, whether or not they choose to go that route. Thanks @kyler1945.

When it comes to arrow-shaft / broadhead integrity, yeah, I haven't messed around to learn what is good, better, best either. Obviously, if you go by his build plan, you use ss ethics archery halfout inserts, so I'm assuming those are good, better, or best. I tried to learn more about this aspect of archery some time ago, but failed to discover more than the anecdotal or to vest myself into any experimentation / research.

I think it's an area where assumptions are likely being made by many, and I couldn't say which way the wind blows. So yea, anyone experienced with all these connections?
Yes it’s a good post...there are tid bits I agree on and disagree on but I’m fairly seasoned bow hunter and stubborn...I say 450ish on the lightest with a stiffer arrow and a metal ferrule broad head that’s scary sharp...I’ve killed a pile of deer with a similar setup but didn’t dare take a quartering too shot either and even though I may now I can’t promote it either
 

kyler1945

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
4,369
Location
Baton Rouge, La.
Yes it’s a good post...there are tid bits I agree on and disagree on but I’m fairly seasoned bow hunter and stubborn...I say 450ish on the lightest with a stiffer arrow and a metal ferrule broad head that’s scary sharp...I’ve killed a pile of deer with a similar setup but didn’t dare take a quartering too shot either and even though I may now I can’t promote it either
please hop in that thread and give me your thoughts on what you disagree on. That’s the whole point!
 

Exhumis

Well-Known Member
Vendor Rep
SH Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
1,684
Location
Northern Virginia
I’d like to start by saying thank you to all the gentleman on this forum who have shared the wealth of knowledge on arrow weights, spine, calculations, ect. Even though I didn’t post anything the last few weeks I did spend countless hours reading old threads to obtain knowledge. Even though this is a saddle forum the amount of knowledge around arrows in old threads is incredible. I always say the smartest hunters are saddle junkies lol.

With the season approaching and guys like THP and RF pushing high FOC arrow builds a bunch of guys are going to be doing some research and “tinkering”. I recently went down the rabbit hole and spent a bunch of money, time and shot a lot of arrows lol. I figured I’d share my experience and where I ended up, especially sense you don’t see many guys who post about landing in the “middle ground” as I did.

In the past when I needed arrows I swung into the nearest archery shop and said “need arrows”. I never asked questions or knew what I was shooting. So basically I was more than likely your average bow hunter at that point.

Upon taking the plunge down the arrow build rabbit hole I learned I was shooting a 27.75” carbon to carbon 400 spine, 410 grain arrow with 100 grain head and a lighted nock @ a little under 10% FOC. I’ve been shooting bows my entire life, I was more than happy with how they performed. They came out of my bow like laser beams. I was accurate and had good flight. And by all means there is nothing wrong with shooting arrows like that if that is what you prefer, they do and will work.

So from there I built and shot them all, super heavy, super high FOC, super lite and balanced and all in between. I ended up for the most part with an arrow pretty much right smack in the middle.

340 spine carbon arrow
27.75” long carbon to carbon
75 grain brass insert
125 grain Magnus Killer bee fixed blade
3 - 2” vanes
Nocturnal lighted nock
480 grains
15% FOC

One thing I did do once landing on that build is I went to the archery shop, we knock tuned all the arrows and followed that by tuning my bow into the arrows. Bow ended up right at 67lbs draw weight. Shooting bullet holes through paper with no fletchings and broad-heads on.

I ended up with an arrow I’m extremely confident in. I have great flight out to 40 yards which is by all means is the max I’d ever shoot if I ever even do. They are still flying fast and hitting pretty hard. The point to this is when you go to build arrows your going to run into a lot of outside pressures and opinions, take your time, obtain as much knowledge as possible, have fun with it, test test and test again, be open minded and settle in on an arrow that is shooting great with your bow, that you are confident and comfortable with.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm more impressed that you not only found a shop to nock tune your arrows they spent the time to tune the arrows to the bow. Where is this unicorn located?
 

woodsdog2

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
2,202
My setup is almost identical to that of @ThumbsMcGee:

28" CtoC Gold Tip Hunter XT's .340 Spine
Standard nock
100 grain ethics insert
150 grain VPA COC 3 blade
three fletch zingers
527gr. TAW. 21.7% FOC
27" DL, 61.5lbs DW
 

rcleofly

New Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2019
Messages
6
I'm more impressed that you not only found a shop to nock tune your arrows they spent the time to tune the arrows to the bow. Where is this unicorn located?
Little tiny shop in MI. I was visiting a customer and saw it and was like this will work. Nice guy. No one else around. Only time I’ve ever been there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Exhumis

Well-Known Member
Vendor Rep
SH Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2019
Messages
1,684
Location
Northern Virginia
Little tiny shop in MI. I was visiting a customer and saw it and was like this will work. Nice guy. No one else around. Only time I’ve ever been there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nice. Think I’d be paying that fella a visit more often. Kinda shop like that is hard to find
 
Top