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Arrow Build Trouble

bigcat93

Well-Known Member
SH Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2015
Messages
968
Location
NJ
So old arrow setup was
- Black Eagle Renegade 350sp, 27.5”, BE insert (51gr), BE nock, 125gr grizzlystik samuari
This setup hits bareshaft,

Wanted to try something heavier and went with
- BE Rampage 300sp, 28”, 100gr ethics insert, BE nock, 125gr grizzlystik samuari

so after nocktuned and bareshaft I fletched and sighted them in. Fieldpoint hits about 2-3” higher than broadhead no matter what adjustment I made.

Any thoughts? Initial is buy more renegades and run with it. “Don’t fix what ain’t broke” besides my walllet for buying 12 rampage shafts
 
How far are you shooting, and how does it look through paper? What is your draw and poundage?
That was at 20 yards, poundage is probably 63-64#, I believe my DL is 27-28 not exactly sure. Have had this bow set up since 2014

through paper fletched arrows looked good
 
So, with your first setup (with lighter inserts, etc), your field points and broadheads shot to the same point at distance? You said they bareshafted, but didn't mention how broadheads and field points went together.
 
So, with your first setup (with lighter inserts, etc), your field points and broadheads shot to the same point at distance? You said they bareshafted, but didn't mention how broadheads and field points went together.
Bareshaft, field point and BH all hit together in that first setup (from last year) this year I wanted to just try a heavier arrow but not extreme TAW went from 445->490ish
 
I had something similar with a long 2 blade. I am convinced that it changed the balance of my arrow enough to make it hit a few inches lower at 40 yards. But you are using the same broadhead and the heavier inserts means that the broadhead length has less of an effect on balance.

Here's what I would do. I'd buy or borrow some 125 grain magnus stingers and see if you get the same thing.

But really, I'd switch back to the first setup.
 
Same thing happened to me. I equated it to drag. This was with a 150 gr Kudu. I ordered some stingers to see what they do. Regardless like @Hunter260 said just move your sight and be done
 
What is your FOC on that setup and what fletching configuration are you using? Higher FOC while beneficial in some regards can cause flight issues when the plane of the broadhead out performs the vanes.


Semper Fi,
Mike
3 blazers on them, i do have some Q2i vanes I could try 4-fletch
 
So old arrow setup was
- Black Eagle Renegade 350sp, 27.5”, BE insert (51gr), BE nock, 125gr grizzlystik samuari
This setup hits bareshaft,

Wanted to try something heavier and went with
- BE Rampage 300sp, 28”, 100gr ethics insert, BE nock, 125gr grizzlystik samuari

so after nocktuned and bareshaft I fletched and sighted them in. Fieldpoint hits about 2-3” higher than broadhead no matter what adjustment I made.

Any thoughts? Initial is buy more renegades and run with it. “Don’t fix what ain’t broke” besides my walllet for buying 12 rampage shafts
At what distance are you 2-3" low with broad heads? You said you bare shafted...is this through paper or a target? What does bare shaft look like at 20 yards? I'm wondering if you rest doesn't need to be moved ever so slightly. The 300 spine will have a very slightly thicker wall than the 350.

Other thought is the broadhead itself. Some just create a ton of drag compared to others. I personally am not a fan of blazer's on fixed broad heads that aren't short.
 
At what distance are you 2-3" low with broad heads? You said you bare shafted...is this through paper or a target? What does bare shaft look like at 20 yards? I'm wondering if you rest doesn't need to be moved ever so slightly. The 300 spine will have a very slightly thicker wall than the 350.

Other thought is the broadhead itself. Some just create a ton of drag compared to others. I personally am not a fan of blazer's on fixed broad heads that aren't short.
I started at 20 yards and the BH were lower than FP. Bareshaft was through paper.

I moved rest slightly up but it moved BOTH FP and BH up and they were still 2” apart
 
TLDR: This post has spurred me to think about my own preconceptions regarding tuning and has me convinced now that moving your sight a bit for your broadheads probably isn't a bad thing if the broadheads are flying and grouping well. I think it comes down to how we often define "tuned".

I think the whole "if your bow is perfectly in tune, then it should shoot everything to the same point"....is probably misguided and depends upon how you define "tuned".....if you define "tuned" as "shooting field points and all broadheads to the same point" then it is true

Let's say you define "tuned" as sending a certain brand and weight of field point and your arrow as straight through the air as possible (let's call this State A).

Well, does that necessarily mean that you can strap any contraption on the front that has different dimensions, weight distribution, and more drag than a field point and the flight should not be changed from that perfect state with the field point?

Maybe not.

Perhaps with State A configuration you will send a big 2 blade a few inches low at 40 yards consistently. To "fix" this, you have to bring your bow out of State A and in a sense detune it to get the broadhead to plane upward a bit to counteract the other differences in the arrow. This state where field points and broadheads hit the same let's call State B.

Because bows that are in State A are sometimes either also in State B (with the right broadhead and vanes maybe) or close enough to State B that most archers can't tell doesn't mean that State A equals State B in all cases. I think we pick State B simply because of what we've been told on the internet and also because it is convenient to be able to switch heads back and forth, and it feels good to see no change (because it conforms to what we've been told as well).

Also, if you are in State B, then you'll feel like you are shooting broadheads well and when you switch back to field points you won't be in the best tune for fields points (State A) but field points don't plane, so you'll think you still have the perfect field point tune and won't notice much.

Lastly, half of the people on the internet that claim that their field points and broadheads shoot the same probably: 1. are shooting at close range or 2. can't shoot well enough to tell the difference.

If someone's standard group is a pie plat at 40 yards, then there is so much variation that they will have a difficult time picking up on a few inch drift.

Another caveat, I'd say what I wrote probably applies more to up and down deviation between field points and broadheads and also smaller deviations (I wouldn't buy into this line of thinking if there was like a 1 foot deviation).

Since OP can't get into State B, then this might indicate that his second setup is hypercritical to tune and maybe form. This would tend to make me shy away from it perhaps (I know I'm contradicting my previous statements here) because a bow and arrow setup that can shoot most things very close is probably less critical to form differences in the field.
 
TLDR: This post has spurred me to think about my own preconceptions regarding tuning and has me convinced now that moving your sight a bit for your broadheads probably isn't a bad thing if the broadheads are flying and grouping well. I think it comes down to how we often define "tuned".

I think the whole "if your bow is perfectly in tune, then it should shoot everything to the same point"....is probably misguided and depends upon how you define "tuned".....if you define "tuned" as "shooting field points and all broadheads to the same point" then it is true

Let's say you define "tuned" as sending a certain brand and weight of field point and your arrow as straight through the air as possible (let's call this State A).

Well, does that necessarily mean that you can strap any contraption on the front that has different dimensions, weight distribution, and more drag than a field point and the flight should not be changed from that perfect state with the field point?

Maybe not.

Perhaps with State A configuration you will send a big 2 blade a few inches low at 40 yards consistently. To "fix" this, you have to bring your bow out of State A and in a sense detune it to get the broadhead to plane upward a bit to counteract the other differences in the arrow. This state where field points and broadheads hit the same let's call State B.

Because bows that are in State A are sometimes either also in State B (with the right broadhead and vanes maybe) or close enough to State B that most archers can't tell doesn't mean that State A equals State B in all cases. I think we pick State B simply because of what we've been told on the internet and also because it is convenient to be able to switch heads back and forth, and it feels good to see no change (because it conforms to what we've been told as well).

Also, if you are in State B, then you'll feel like you are shooting broadheads well and when you switch back to field points you won't be in the best tune for fields points (State A) but field points don't plane, so you'll think you still have the perfect field point tune and won't notice much.

Lastly, half of the people on the internet that claim that their field points and broadheads shoot the same probably: 1. are shooting at close range or 2. can't shoot well enough to tell the difference.

If someone's standard group is a pie plat at 40 yards, then there is so much variation that they will have a difficult time picking up on a few inch drift.

Another caveat, I'd say what I wrote probably applies more to up and down deviation between field points and broadheads and also smaller deviations (I wouldn't buy into this line of thinking if there was like a 1 foot deviation).

Since OP can't get into State B, then this might indicate that his second setup is hypercritical to tune and maybe form. This would tend to make me shy away from it perhaps (I know I'm contradicting my previous statements here) because a bow and arrow setup that can shoot most things very close is probably less critical to form differences in the field.

Yep. I used to spend way too much time fine-tuning. So long as I can tune out the left/right issues, I have a profile in my sight for field points, and another for broadheads.


Semper Fi,
Mike
 
I started at 20 yards and the BH were lower than FP. Bareshaft was through paper.

I moved rest slightly up but it moved BOTH FP and BH up and they were still 2” apart
Did you weight the arrows with FP's and the ones with broadheads? I wouldnt think there would be enough difference to result in 3" low at 20. Iagree with the earlier comment about some heads creating more drag than others but again at 20 it wouldnt normally be 3" difference.
 
I just watched a video with Troy Fowler aka the Ranch Fairy, yesterday, about this very issue. He stated that if you're trying to get a heavy arrow setup to fly perfect and you just can't get it tuned, BUT the lighter arrow setup is flying fine and is in tune....shoot the lighter arrow setup. :cool:

There are "12 Arrow Penetration Factors" for a perfect arrow setup, according to the Ashby Bowhunting Foundation and all of them must be met to get perfect arrow flight along with good penetration. :)
 
Long broadheads move the weight further forward, making spine weaker.

Long, weighted inserts do the opposite, making them stiffer as they take up more length inside the shaft. My 50 grain inserts are less than half the length of my 100's.

All of this to a degree. Marginal spine choice will show more variation.
 
Yep. I used to spend way too much time fine-tuning. So long as I can tune out the left/right issues, I have a profile in my sight for field points, and another for broadheads.


Semper Fi,
Mike
What sight are you running? I have fast Eddie and didn’t want to re-calibrate between the FP/BH

arrows for new setup are 28” about 17.9% FOC, old was 27.5” (measured after I bought new arrows since it had been awhile) but 15% FOC
 
Do you have any other 125 broadheads to compare against the ones you are trying to tune? If FP's are tuned well and hitting behind the pin and current broadheads are hitting low, I think I would try another broadhead of the same weight before I messed with much else.
 
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