Asking permission for spurs

[elk yinzer]

Just remember that Stepps are public land legal because Wild Edge claims they are. If a Warden sees you tearing up bark say on a beech tree whilst affixing them to a tree, I don't think Wild Edge's claim is going to mean too much to him.

 

[BCHunter]

I can't agree with this. Affix does not imply it is permanent, you can affix any climbing aid, platform, camera, whatever, removed them 5 minutes later, you've still affixed them. I think this one is pretty black and white.

The wording varies state by state. Here is PA it boils down to not "damaging the tree". Vague, obviously even more so than the state above, but I think just about every warden is going to write you up if he witnesses you climbing a tree in gaffs. Or maybe, just maybe if he catches you with spurs and can link you to trees damaged by them. Both probably long shots. I think if a warden sees you with spurs at the truck, you may have to talk your way out of it or go to court, but that ticket definitely shouldn't hold up because how can he proved beyond a reasonable doubt you damaged a tree if he can't find the tree you damaged?

So there is the legality, and I think most cases on public land they are illegal. I have little doubt they are illegal here. Then there is the ethics. There may be some justifications there in relation to the actual damage and comparison to what other hunters do, but justification doesn't work in court. I'm not saying I am above the law but if the intent of the law is to protect the value of the trees, and I regularly see other hunters break the law, it becomes sort of like doing 5 or 10 mph over the speed limit. Pay the ticket if you get caught, and don't be an idiot and go spurring up trees in easily accessed places, or spurring trees multiple times. I can tell you after a month of backyard practice, it does do some pretty good damage. I think 3 or 4 times up a healthy tree and you're starting to put that tree in the danger zone.

I agree, I just want to know the original intent of the law. Was it to not puncture the tree ever, or was it to stop people from leaving screw in steps in good timber so we don't ruin sawmills? I feel like it was the second, but the states went down this rabbit hole and nobody cares enough to specify since it's only a few crazies like us that want to do it.

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[elk yinzer]

I agree, I just want to know the original intent of the law. Was it to not puncture the tree ever, or was it to stop people from leaving screw in steps in good timber so we don't ruin sawmills? I feel like it was the second, but the states went down this rabbit hole and nobody cares enough to specify since it's only a few crazies like us that want to do it.

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I think protecting the lumber is the primary intent. So yes, obviously not leaving metal screwed in, not letting chains and straps suffocate the tree, stuff like that.

I think where climbing methods get into a gray area with intent depends where you are. For instance in PA our Game Commission plants food plots and apple orchards. These are obviously magnets for every Tom, **** and Harry that watches TV hunting and thinks that is how you kill deer. So these things are usually lined with ladder stands and hangons. Say spurs caught on big time, eventually these frequently used food plot trees are going to suffer some damage. Is that different than me hunting 30 different trees a year, and all of them scattered in the hardwoods? Obviously, but I don't know how the law could address that.

 

[Matt G.]

@swampsnyper I'm with you 100% on this. I dissect the rule book every season and follow accordingly, if nothing is specifically stated it can't be enforced. I also usually try to err on the side of what would be considered the intent of the law, in my experience that's what the officer/s do as well. I think a reasonable case can be made that spurs are not the same as screw in steps or bow hangers and cause no more damage than a climbing stand or some strap on steps.

I'd argue just the opposite, that unless specifically carved out as permissible, it's probably not allowed. Laws and regulations can't possibly address every potential scenario, and therefore are "catch-all" by nature.

Here in Michigan the regulation is pretty vague, but the spirit of the law seems pretty clear......that the intent is to prevent any piercing of the bark.

 

[Nutterbuster]

I think everybody makes some great points. Obviously as hunters it's understood that we want to protect the habitat, regardless of what the higher ups want. I sleep easy knowing that killing a tree the way I hunt is unlikely, and if a tree does die, the net result is still positive with the time/money I dump into supporting my local ecosystem. Kind of like how we nurture the deer herd as a whole, while killing some here and there.

As far as legality and fines, my way of looking at it is with all the money I save hunting public vs leasing, I can afford a ticket if it comes to that. And you gotta catch me to ticket me.

 

[boyne bowhunter]

Just remember that Stepps are public land legal because Wild Edge claims they are. If a Warden sees you tearing up bark say on a beech tree whilst affixing them to a tree, I don't think Wild Edge's claim is going to mean too much to him.

With that said they would have to ticket me, and anyone else, for using a Summit climber as well. I have done some considerable damage to the bark of trees in the past with the climber. The aggressive teeth on a climber really cut into bark.

 

[GCTerpfan]

I'd argue just the opposite, that unless specifically carved out as permissible, it's probably not allowed. Laws and regulations can't possibly address every potential scenario, and therefore are "catch-all" by nature.

I strongly disagree with this. Laws are always written as limits on our freedoms not as expressly granting us rights. The day we can only do what the law specifically says we can do is the day we no longer live in a free Country.

 

[Nutterbuster]

With that said they would have to ticket me, and anyone else, for using a Summit climber as well. I have done some considerable damage to the bark of trees in the past with the climber. The aggressive teeth on a climber really cut into bark.

Au contraire, good sir. They don't have to ticket anybody that they don't want to. I understand your argument, but conventional climbers are "normal."

 

[bongo]

I think everybody makes some great points. Obviously as hunters it's understood that we want to protect the habitat, regardless of what the higher ups want. I sleep easy knowing that killing a tree the way I hunt is unlikely, and if a tree does die, the net result is still positive with the time/money I dump into supporting my local ecosystem. Kind of like how we nurture the deer herd as a whole, while killing some here and there.

As far as legality and fines, my way of looking at it is with all the money I save hunting public vs leasing, I can afford a ticket if it comes to that. And you gotta catch me to ticket me.

You make a good point but if it were me and I saw him coming I would pitch them and avoid the ticket. When you get your verdict it could be you can’t hunt public land any more and not just a fine.
That being said I’m on the Kiwi list.

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[Nutterbuster]

You make a good point but if it were me and I saw him coming I would pitch them and avoid the ticket. When you get your verdict it could be you can’t hunt public land any more and not just a fine.


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Always a possibility I guess. I think down here they've got their hands so full with baiters, jacklighters, and other poachers that an otherwise legal hunter spiking trees would most likely get a finger shaken at him.

Beside the point, since I've got a letter in my pack saying I'm golden.

 

[bongo]

Always a possibility I guess. I think down here they've got their hands so full with baiters, jacklighters, and other poachers that an otherwise legal hunter spiking trees would most likely get a finger shaken at him.

Beside the point, since I've got a letter in my pack saying I'm golden.

When I was younger I had the same letter. Now not so much.


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[Nutterbuster]

When I was younger I had the same letter. Now not so much.


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Bad experience?