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Asking permission for spurs

These are poorly written laws. What they are actually concerned with is penetrating the cambium layer. ALL climbing methods, other than those methods where you climb your rope, will penetrate and damage the bark to some degree.

A good chunk of the land I hunt is National Grasslands, and they are stricter than a vegan.
Another good portion is Corps of engineers, and they couldn’t care less.


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@swampsnyper, I lived across the street from a sho'nuff Cajun growing up. No lie, the first conversation we had with him was 20 minutes of him asking if we knew where to go gigging frogs, and 20 minutes of us smiling politely and nodding.

Fast forward 2 years later and we were all translating for him at the neighborhood block parties. Couldn't understand why the new neighbors didn't understand English. He was a genuinely funny individual, and all of his jokes got blank stares.
 
BCHunter said:
It is unlawful to use any item that penetrates through the bark of a tree in the construction or affixing of any device to assist in climbing a tree.
Click to expand...

Looks to me like they've covered spurs to me...
In Michigan the law states nothing can pierce the trees cambium layer. Again that rules out spurs. Likely you'll never get caught but if a CO meets you at your truck after a hunt it could get pretty uncomfortable if he sees your spurs. I've known guys to not only get fined but have to pay for the tree too...(not for spurs but similar charges).
 
Curious while the topic is up when it comes to hunting private land some one gave you permission to hunt, do you ask if they mind if you use Spurs or screw in steps for that matter...... I generally think most would not care but I could see some against if they feel it's hurting the timber value on the property.


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GBlevins92 said:
Curious while the topic is up when it comes to hunting private land some one gave you permission to hunt, do you ask if they mind if you use Spurs or screw in steps for that matter...... I generally think most would not care but I could see some against if they feel it's hurting the timber value on the property.


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Click to expand...
I would think I would be open with land owner - I would hate to lose a good piece of property because I did thinks behind his back, or things he might not approve of. Land owners get tired of people not respecting their property and using spikes on one of their trees without asking is opening yourself up to getting kicked off that property. True most wont care but I would rather ask then to potentially piss off a landowner that has graciously allowed me to hunt his property.
 
"A portable hunting stand is any device or structure used for the purpose of hunting that can be carried in its entirety and erected by hand including but not limited to tripod stands, lean-to stands, lock-on stands, ladder stands and climbing stands.

Portable hunting stands and blinds and associated equipment using no metal objects (such as screw-in steps) to be screwed or driven into trees may be used, but must have the owner’s name and address permanently attached. Stands must be moved at least 200 yards after seven days.

Deer stands and blinds may not be placed on a WMA more than seven days before deer archery season and must be removed from the WMA within seven days after the close of deer archery season."

I think here in AR they leave it just vague enough that it could go either way if they wanted to push the subject.
 
DaveT1963 said:
I would think I would be open with land owner - I would hate to lose a good piece of property because I did thinks behind his back, or things he might not approve of. Land owners get tired of people not respecting their property and using spikes on one of their trees without asking is opening yourself up to getting kicked off that property. True most wont care but I would rather ask then to potentially piss off a landowner that has graciously allowed me to hunt his property.
Click to expand...

I agree I think this is an instance of its better to ask permission than forgiveness, I always ask permission to hang cameras as well to always let the land owner know what I'm doing.


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TFNC said:
"A portable hunting stand is any device or structure used for the purpose of hunting that can be carried in its entirety and erected by hand including but not limited to tripod stands, lean-to stands, lock-on stands, ladder stands and climbing stands.

Portable hunting stands and blinds and associated equipment using no metal objects (such as screw-in steps) to be screwed or driven into trees may be used, but must have the owner’s name and address permanently attached. Stands must be moved at least 200 yards after seven days.

Deer stands and blinds may not be placed on a WMA more than seven days before deer archery season and must be removed from the WMA within seven days after the close of deer archery season."

I think here in AR they leave it just vague enough that it could go either way if they wanted to push the subject.
Click to expand...
Seems to be a common theme. As @BCHunter posted here earlier the Michigan Laws are just vague enough to leave it up to interpretation of the enforcing officer as to what is meant by "affixing".

"Hunting platforms cannot be affixed or attached to any tree by nails, screws, or bolts; however, a "T" bolt or similar device supplied by a tree stand manufacturer can be used. A fall arrest system is recommended.

Screw-in tree steps are illegal on public lands. It is unlawful to use any item that penetrates through the bark of a tree in the construction or affixing of any device to assist in climbing a tree."

An argument could be made that since the spurs are only temporarily connected to the tree they aren't affixed.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
Seems to be a common theme. As @BCHunter posted here earlier the Michigan Laws are just vague enough to leave it up to interpretation of the enforcing officer as to what is meant by "affixing".

"Hunting platforms cannot be affixed or attached to any tree by nails, screws, or bolts; however, a "T" bolt or similar device supplied by a tree stand manufacturer can be used. A fall arrest system is recommended.

Screw-in tree steps are illegal on public lands. It is unlawful to use any item that penetrates through the bark of a tree in the construction or affixing of any device to assist in climbing a tree."

An argument could be made that since the spurs are only temporarily connected to the tree they aren't affixed.
Click to expand...

I agree... I sent an email to the Michigan DNR regulations contact on their website asking if it was legal, and if not to show with specific verbiage why it wasn't, and never got an answer. I followed up a couple months later to their office, the secretary said I could send the question again or if I needed an answer right away to call my local office. When I called the local officer he just kinda danced around and just kept saying that you can't puncture the bark. He didn't seem to care that I wasn't affixing anything to the tree.

I'm not sold that it's illegal on public land, but I hunt certain lands that do spell out not cutting branches or hurting the tree in any way. So I don't know if I want to invest in a climbing method I cant use everywhere.
 
Technically I was in violation of Michigan law using my climber which I always packed in and out for every hunt.

"If you hunt on public land, your tree stand must be portable and your name
and address, Michigan driver License number, or DNR sportcard number must
be affixed in legible English that can be easily read from the ground."

I didn't have that information on my climber, I always figured if it was there, so was I, and the officer could ask me personally. That said, technically he could have cited me.

It just occurred to me I need to have that printed on the butt of my saddle now!:D
 
boyne bowhunter said:
Seems to be a common theme. As @BCHunter posted here earlier the Michigan Laws are just vague enough to leave it up to interpretation of the enforcing officer as to what is meant by "affixing".

"Hunting platforms cannot be affixed or attached to any tree by nails, screws, or bolts; however, a "T" bolt or similar device supplied by a tree stand manufacturer can be used. A fall arrest system is recommended.

Screw-in tree steps are illegal on public lands. It is unlawful to use any item that penetrates through the bark of a tree in the construction or affixing of any device to assist in climbing a tree."

An argument could be made that since the spurs are only temporarily connected to the tree they aren't affixed.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with this. Affix does not imply it is permanent, you can affix any climbing aid, platform, camera, whatever, removed them 5 minutes later, you've still affixed them. I think this one is pretty black and white.

The wording varies state by state. Here is PA it boils down to not "damaging the tree". Vague, obviously even more so than the state above, but I think just about every warden is going to write you up if he witnesses you climbing a tree in gaffs. Or maybe, just maybe if he catches you with spurs and can link you to trees damaged by them. Both probably long shots. I think if a warden sees you with spurs at the truck, you may have to talk your way out of it or go to court, but that ticket definitely shouldn't hold up because how can he proved beyond a reasonable doubt you damaged a tree if he can't find the tree you damaged?

So there is the legality, and I think most cases on public land they are illegal. I have little doubt they are illegal here. Then there is the ethics. There may be some justifications there in relation to the actual damage and comparison to what other hunters do, but justification doesn't work in court. I'm not saying I am above the law but if the intent of the law is to protect the value of the trees, and I regularly see other hunters break the law, it becomes sort of like doing 5 or 10 mph over the speed limit. Pay the ticket if you get caught, and don't be an idiot and go spurring up trees in easily accessed places, or spurring trees multiple times. I can tell you after a month of backyard practice, it does do some pretty good damage. I think 3 or 4 times up a healthy tree and you're starting to put that tree in the danger zone.
 
Glad to know I'm not the only one dealing with vague and ridiculous regs.

I hate it, because I dearly wish I could get behind conservation efforts. But even when the regs are well-intentioned (which is not always a guarantee) they usually serve their intended purpose questionably well. I have an in-law who works as a field biologist, and she says the same thing.

I feel like all the trash I pick up and the money I dump into the Pittman-Robertson pool makes up for any tree damage I may do.
 
elk yinzer said:
I can't agree with this. Affix does not imply it is permanent, you can affix any climbing aid, platform, camera, whatever, removed them 5 minutes later, you've still affixed them. I think this one is pretty black and white.

The wording varies state by state. Here is PA it boils down to not "damaging the tree". Vague, obviously even more so than the state above, but I think just about every warden is going to write you up if he witnesses you climbing a tree in gaffs. Or maybe, just maybe if he catches you with spurs and can link you to trees damaged by them. Both probably long shots. I think if a warden sees you with spurs at the truck, you may have to talk your way out of it or go to court, but that ticket definitely shouldn't hold up because how can he proved beyond a reasonable doubt you damaged a tree if he can't find the tree you damaged?

So there is the legality, and I think most cases on public land they are illegal. I have little doubt they are illegal here. Then there is the ethics. There may be some justifications there in relation to the actual damage and comparison to what other hunters do, but justification doesn't work in court. I'm not saying I am above the law but if the intent of the law is to protect the value of the trees, and I regularly see other hunters break the law, it becomes sort of like doing 5 or 10 mph over the speed limit. Pay the ticket if you get caught, and don't be an idiot and go spurring up trees in easily accessed places, or spurring trees multiple times. I can tell you after a month of backyard practice, it does do some pretty good damage. I think 3 or 4 times up a healthy tree and you're starting to put that tree in the danger zone.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you say. This is why I plan on using Wild Edge Stepps for most of my public land hunts even though I feel they do more damage than the spurs. Trees I plan to hunt repetitively, public or private, will be preset for SRT access so I don't tear up a tree any more than I have to. Not only to keep the damage to a minimum but to hide my presence as much as possible to other hunters.

That said, if I should decide to risk the spurs for a long hike in/run and gun hunt and am ticketed I will accept the penalty and pay the fine same as I would with a speeding ticket.
 
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