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Bad Penetration.....Again

Kurt

Kurt

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
2,331
Location
Massachusetts
This morning I had a doe come through at around 7:15 am or so. I was actually in the middle of posting on the Live from the saddle thread when she came through. I put the pin on her and center punched her. I watched the lighted nock go right behind the shoulder. She takes off and I lose sight after about 60 yds. I get down after 30 min and go over to the arrow, shoot through, I'm thinking great. I get on the blood and I follow it for awhile and I'm thinking there should be more blood. I'm thinking about backing out and giving some more time just based on the lack of blood, and there she is in front of me head up. She gets up and stands there for 10 min and then lays down again. I'm able to back out to give her some time. I go back at 2:30 pm and I'm really going to get her, because she has to be dead. I get to the spot where she was laying down, and shes gone. I know there is water 60 yds down the hill so I figure I'll find her dead in or near the water. I track her slowly by scuffed leaves, no blood. I look up and 20 yds away there she is, head up. I had an arrow nocked so I found a hole to get an arrow through and I hit her right behind the opposite shoulder from the first shot. No penetration. She gets up and goes in the water where she stumbled around for a couple of min and then lays down in the water for 5 min. I nocked another one and she let me walk up to 15 yds and I put one 3 inches above the water line, no penetration.I mean some penetration but nothing like I think there should be, on either of those arrows. I have pics I'll post of the first entry and exit wounds, and the second entry. She was 24.7 yds ranged to where she was standing, from 16-17 feet in the tree. So you would think, great angle. Wait till I get the pics posted. I went into the water to get her, and I pulled arrow 2 and arrow 3 out and both broadheads are broken off some where in her. I didn't run into them when I field dressed her. Both with poor penetration, both broken off. The shafts had the same damage as the shaft I killed my buck with, but these were worse. So where do we start. The debate about making sure you carry enough arrows in your quiver, JUST IN CASE. I needed 3 and I carry 4. We can debate why the FMJ's are blowing apart at the tip. Or why the Rage Trypans didn't penetrate worth a damn. Granted the first one was a shoot through, but wait till you see the entry and exit wounds. I'll go take a pic of the arrow shafts.
 
Have you checked the tune of your bow lately? My first thought would be that the arrow may not be flying flat either due to a bad tune or poor form.
I'd at least start there.
 
The first pic is of the shafts. The second pic is of the entry of the first shot the third pic is of the exit wound of the first shot , the lowest hole and the upper wound is the entry of the second shot and the very top wound is the entry from the shot in the water.
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Sent from my SM-J320V using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Back Strap M.D. said:
Have you checked the tune of your bow lately? My first thought would be that the arrow may not be flying flat either due to a bad tune or poor form.
I'd at least start there.
Click to expand...
That's a good thought. I'll check it but It's throwing darts. I'll, shoot it through paper to check it. It's on target. The senerio was perfect she's broadside in the clear on my strong side. Not to high in the tree. I was relaxed and leaning straight back. I've shot from the saddle almost non stop since I got it last year. It's my forth deer taken from the saddle, and I've been killing deer with a bow successfully for 29 years. The one big change for me was the expandable head. I've never seen such poor penetration or shaft damage as I've seen this year. I'll check my bows tune.

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The shaft on the right is the one I shot my buck with. The second shaft is the first arrow and the other 2 are the second and third arrows.

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You hit where you aimed the first shot right? The only time I have seen arrow shaft look like that is when I hit target framing/wood. I am at a loss. Were your arrows faulty? Did they get bent/kinked slightly without you noticing and were weak right there?
 
Kurt, the poor penetration is exactly why I switched back to fixed blades. When I shot expanables, when they worked correctly, I had great holes, however, when the arrow would encounter anything that would remotely provide resistance, they wouldn't penetrate worth crap. Glad you found your deer, only you can decide if you want to continue to have that doubt. I'm extremely happy with my decision to shoot fixed blade broadheads, and I never worry about penetration now.
 
Sziggy2.0 said:
You hit where you aimed the first shot right? The only time I have seen arrow shaft look like that is when I hit target framing/wood. I am at a loss. Were your arrows faulty? Did they get bent/kinked slightly without you noticing and were weak right there?
Click to expand...
Good thought. I don't know. I was thinking the HIT insert might have something to do with it in conjunction with the expandable head, but I honestly don't know. I've been shooting FMJs for a while now and I've never experienced this. I've only shot the shaft broadhead combo for 2 years. I hit where I aimed. The lack of initial blood had me second guessing but I saw the lighted nock disappear right behind the shoulder, and the entry wound proves it was good.
 
She was standing EXACTLY broadside, EXACTLY. If you look at the entry and exit it would look like she was standing quartering to, she was not. It's some sort of deflected arrow penetration. It hit where I aimed and the exit is further back than it should be. Somebody tell me how that happens.
 
Are these the HIT inserts that your referring to?
Screenshot_20191129-210616_Chrome.jpg

If so I would be concerned with the lack of a flange that rests at the tip of the arrow. I could see it slipping into the Inner diameter of the arrow and destroying the arrow like in your photos when the back of the broadhead strikes it.
 
Rage work just fine, until they don't. You seem to have won the bad lottery on performance with them and your setup. FMJ's are not known to unreliable, so I would switch heads and move on.

I would highly advise checking out some of the Ranch Fairy videos like this one as well....https://youtu.be/oRrrev6Owkw
 
huntin_addict said:
Kurt, the poor penetration is exactly why I switched back to fixed blades. When I shot expanables, when they worked correctly, I had great holes, however, when the arrow would encounter anything that would remotely provide resistance, they wouldn't penetrate worth crap. Glad you found your deer, only you can decide if you want to continue to have that doubt. I'm extremely happy with my decision to shoot fixed blade broadheads, and I never worry about penetration now.
Click to expand...
No. My season ended. Today was my last day to hunt the bow season. I will go back to fixed blades next year and chalk up the last 2 years of broadhead experimentation as a hard lesson learned. I'll look at different shafts and find me a good cut on contact or fixed position head to lead the way. As another person said I'll make sure its all in tune.
 
Wow fmj’s are heavy so if bow is tuned should get a nice pass through. My thoughts after seeing the pics is it kinda looks like glue failure on the inserts. Like I say it may not be the case but I have seen pro shops use fast set glue which becomes brittle over time. Maybe that and shooting a mechanical has something to do with it. I only shoot fixed , just less head aches for me. Just my two cents.
 
Back Strap M.D. said:
Are these the HIT inserts that your referring to?
View attachment 21336

If so I would be concerned with the lack of a flange that rests at the tip of the arrow. I could see it slipping into the Inner diameter of the arrow and destroying the arrow like in your photos when the back of the broadhead strikes it.
Click to expand...
Those be the ones. I've shot them for some time and never had a problem until this year.
 
Back Strap M.D. said:
Are these the HIT inserts that your referring to?
View attachment 21336

If so I would be concerned with the lack of a flange that rests at the tip of the arrow. I could see it slipping into the Inner diameter of the arrow and destroying the arrow like in your photos when the back of the broadhead strikes it.
Click to expand...
The insert is actually set inside the shaft and only the ferrule of the broadhead is in contact with the end of the shaft
 
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