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Bolts as a Perm Set Up

1simplemann said:
Ricky,
Your exactly right. It's our property and we will we do exactly what we want to do with it. The property will never be logged because cottonwoods have no logging value. No one is going to be running a saw on it but me or my family occasionally for firewood. The land was purchased for the purpose of hunting and will be passed down to family. It can never be developed. And will forever stay as prime habitat for the deer, ducks, geese, swans, pheasants, turkeys, bald eagles, foxs, coyotes, racoons, beavers, otters, muck rats and the occasional mountain lion that live there. To me, that's being a good steward of the land. The last time I checked, this was still America so I worked for it, I saved for it, I bought it, I'm going to do what I want on it. So please spare us the tree hugging.
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I've mentioned this before but I guess I could be a bit more specific. I had a screw in step screwed into a tree last year that broke off on me. It was in the tree for a couple years. The cottonwoods can be really sketchy at times when stuffing bolts, screw in steps, etc. into them. Same goes for elm trees (don't ask me the science behind it). If you've ever cut one down when leafed out, they're like cutting into a water hose. If you do decide to pull the bolts yearly, you'll notice a clearly defined oxidation ring on the bolt even if it's an annodized where the tree meets the bolt or screw in step (causing a weakened spot). The tree pumps water up and past at the exact spot our bolts or screw in steps are located (cambium layer) until a scar is formed which may or may not happen. I've had them develop rot in these areas and leave a loose, spongy area the bolt sort of loosely fits into.
In a freshly drilled hole or one that has the bolts removed each time, there is less likely of a chance for this to happen since they're being inpected each time when placing the bolt.
I wouldn't think of even trying anything less than a 3/8" grade 8 bolt, especially if leaving them in and weighing 220lbs. like I do. Something specifically made for the purpose like telephone pole steps are another option possibly but they're huge, made for telephone poles and not a dynamic, growing tree.
It takes an extra few seconds to insert and remove the bolts each time so that's exactly what I'll do if I use bolts this season after the short fall and rib rake on a broken screw in last year.
I sometimes forget too that we're supposed to be tied off at all times in the case of a broken or loose step so there's that and we're all adults here able to make our own risk assessment.
And...they do log cottonwoods for pallets but thats besides the point.
 
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i have also witnessed rottin holes .bugs and woodpeckers also can take over empty holes and wallow them out.but im not telling people not to use them.#1 its not my place to tell othes what to do.#2 im not scared to do what other men do.#3 i dont feel the need to vertue signal my knawlege about things i dont do or use.#4 i dont have freinds who are venders that im trolling for.just a regular dude who does this.all diy nothing from any saddle stand or climbing product company
 
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Jtaylor said:
I've mentioned this before but I guess I could be a bit more specific. I had a screw in step screwed into a tree last year that broke off on me. It was in the tree for a couple years. The cottonwoods can be really sketchy at times when stuffing bolts, screw in steps, etc. into them. Same goes for elm trees (don't ask me the science behind it). If you've ever cut one down when leafed out, they're like cutting into a water hose. If you do decide to pull the bolts yearly, you'll notice a clearly defined oxidation ring on the bolt even if it's an annodized where the tree meets the bolt or screw in step (causing a weakened spot). The tree pumps water up and past at the exact spot our bolts or screw in steps are located (cambium layer) until a scar is formed which may or may not happen. I've had them develop rot in these areas and leave a loose, spongy area the bolt sort of loosely fits into.
In a freshly drilled hole or one that has the bolts removed each time, there is less likely of a chance for this to happen since they're being inpected each time when placing the bolt.
I wouldn't think of even trying anything less than a 3/8" grade 8 bolt, especially if leaving them in and weighing 220lbs. like I do. Something specifically made for the purpose like telephone pole steps are another option possibly but they're huge, made for telephone poles and not a dynamic, growing tree.
It takes an extra few seconds to insert and remove the bolts each time so that's exactly what I'll do if I use bolts this season after the short fall and rib rake on a broken screw in last year.
I sometimes forget too that we're supposed to be tied off at all times in the case of a broken or loose step so there's that and we're all adults here able to make our own risk assessment.
And...they do log cottonwoods for pallets but thats besides the point.
Click to expand...
Jtaylor

Thanks for the safety tip however I'm not the OP. He asked what people use for permanant set up so I told him what I have used successfully for the past 20+ years. Screw in's on cottonwoods can be very dangerous and has to be done in certain way, with certain steps. My partner didn't listen to my instructions and fell. He got lucky and landed on his feet. Also, I'm fully aware that if screw steps are left in a cottonwood,a rot develops around them and will pull out. Ask me how I know this! 3 points of contact saved me. I'm not removing my spikes. I put them there to have pre set locations ready to go. They've NEVER pulled out or bent. 3 points of contact at all times and I will be fine.
 
tailgunner said:
i hugg trees alot but thats because i climb trees with no gear at all on twigs that are not grade 8.i break limbs all the time and yet some how 3 points contact has never failed me.que the panic police
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Never failed me either! Back in the day we had never had any safety devices. I'm still here!
 
Very simple. 7-8 inch grade 8 bolts. Ive used them on private pueces i used to hunt for years. Tree grows right around them actually makes stronger
 
How deep do you drive bolts in?

2”? 3”? 4”?
I pulled some screw-in Cranfords yesterday and they were only in about 1” into solid wood.


And I’ve seen recommended bolt lengths anywhere from 6-10”?
I’m thinking about installing bolts in and leaving ‘em in for a long time.

I also recently saw 1/2” rebar rod used, 10” lengths, driven in 4”. Looked solid, but what do I know?
 
The tree will likely harden around the bolt. Making the bolt loose over time. Keep an eye on them. It happens over time. But, it happened every single time. You’ll have to move them once it happens. I know that because I didn’t. Then one pulled out and I almost gutted myself. On too of ruining my knees I hit the ground so hard.
 
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