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carry as you go aiders that attach to the top of your sticks are dangerous

I realized why this happened now and not before.

Before I "knew better", when I used a 1 step CAYG aider with my Hawk sticks, I would grab the top of the stick with both hands and pull myself/lower myself with the help of the aider. If I ever got a little crooked, I had my upper body to control me. I always had my tether in play and so felt pretty safe even if my lineman's got loose during the step action.

This year, I've been trying to do everything with just the lineman's lanyard (also with tether hooked up) because that is supposedly safer than using your hands.

Well, I think that is only safer when you have secure footing. When you have insecure footing (like when your only foot holding weight is the one in the aider) then you have 2 points of contact that are just pendulous loops around 2 objects (foot and tree). I think this is an overapplication of a concept that is true for folks that use lineman's lanyards with spikes and such. You can't change a major parameter and not reevaluate the overall principle.

No wonder I fell. When I started to turn to the side with the aider, then my lineman's just turned on the tree. Once my center of gravity was sufficiently to one side, there was nothing I could do.

So, I think my title should change to add

".....if you don't use your hands on the stick"

In part, I think folks pushed a certain use of the lineman's in all cases (leaning back into it, no hands) in part because it makes it seem safe then to climb with only it and not your tether as well. I think everyone should try to climb with their tether also.
 
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raisins said:
I realized why this happened now and not before.

Before I "knew better", when I use a 1 step CAYG aider with my Hawk sticks, I would grab the top of the stick with both hands and pull myself/lower myself with the help of the aider. If I ever got a little crooked, I had my upper body to control me. I always had my tether in play and so felt pretty safe even if my lineman's got loose during the step action.

This year, I've trying to do everything with just the lineman's lanyard because that is supposedly safer than using your hands.

Well, I think that is only safer when you have secure footing. When you have insecure footing (like when your only foot holding weight is the one in the aider) then you have 2 points of contact that are just pendulous loops around 2 objects (foot and tree). I think this is an overapplication of a concept that is true for folks that use lineman's lanyards with spikes and such. You can't change a major parameter and not reevaluate the overall principle.

No wonder I fell. When I started to turn to the side with the aider, then my lineman's just turned on the tree. Once my center of gravity was sufficiently to one side, there was nothing I could do.

So, I think my title should change to add

".....if you don't use your hands on the stick"

In part, I think folks pushed a certain use of the lineman's in all cases (leaning back into it, no hands) in part because it makes it seem safe then to climb with only it and not your tether as well. I think everyone should try to climb with their tether also.
Click to expand...
I know there’s no textbook for this, but I agree. When advancing on an aider I usually have a firm grip on the stick, sometimes at the expense of tether or linemans slack unfortunately. It’s hard to have it all. I’m not comfortable leaning back weighting the linemans and relying on my feet to stay perfect in the aider; for better or worse my hands are on that stick at that point.
 
I had the same thing happen my first season with a movable aider and full size Hawks. I cut up the inside of my leg as well and shortly after someone posted pictures of doing the same thing and having to go to the hospital due to the lacerations from landing on the step below. I moved on to one sticking my second season. Glad to hear you are all right.
 
This!

This was the same issue that emerged with the Knaider/Swaider and WE steps. 3 rope points of contact is not an inherently stable situation, and appears to raise the potential for the foot kickout/pendulum considerably.

One thing I love about the JX3 sticks is their double post making 2-handed holds easy while on a multi-step aider below. I feel little worry, if any, about kickout. Not that it's can't happen, but I have so much upper body control that I just don't worry about it. As you noted, this makes it impossible to keep my LB tight and above my waist at all times. I do the best I can with it, but I choose good 2-handed grip over "proper" LB use every time.

Of course my stick could fail and my lack of proper LB use could make it ineffective at preventing a fall, which could mean my slack induced tether is creating an unacceptable fall factor... and so on and so forth. No one should do what I do cause it's dangerous and improper climbing methodology. I have no expertise and offer no recommendations.



Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
I learned the joys of aiders on slippery bark trees on my second hunt with onestick. Top or bottom, third step is nearly impossible to stay on with certain barks when wet. I was thinking some sort of two stick leapfrogging option for worst conditions. I would never attempt to down climb with mobile aider though, rappeling is so much safer, easier and faster.
 
raisins said:
I realized why this happened now and not before.

Before I "knew better", when I use a 1 step CAYG aider with my Hawk sticks, I would grab the top of the stick with both hands and pull myself/lower myself with the help of the aider. If I ever got a little crooked, I had my upper body to control me. I always had my tether in play and so felt pretty safe even if my lineman's got loose during the step action.

This year, I've trying to do everything with just the lineman's lanyard because that is supposedly safer than using your hands.

Well, I think that is only safer when you have secure footing. When you have insecure footing (like when your only foot holding weight is the one in the aider) then you have 2 points of contact that are just pendulous loops around 2 objects (foot and tree). I think this is an overapplication of a concept that is true for folks that use lineman's lanyards with spikes and such. You can't change a major parameter and not reevaluate the overall principle.

No wonder I fell. When I started to turn to the side with the aider, then my lineman's just turned on the tree. Once my center of gravity was sufficiently to one side, there was nothing I could do.

So, I think my title should change to add

".....if you don't use your hands on the stick"

In part, I think folks pushed a certain use of the lineman's in all cases (leaning back into it, no hands) in part because it makes it seem safe then to climb with only it and not your tether as well. I think everyone should try to climb with their tether also.
Click to expand...

This!

This was the same issue that emerged with the Knaider/Swaider and WE steps. 3 rope points of contact is not an inherently stable situation, and appears to raise the potential for the foot kickout/pendulum considerably.

One thing I love about the JX3 sticks is their double post making 2-handed holds easy while on a multi-step aider below. I feel little worry, if any, about kickout. Not that it's can't happen, but I have so much upper body control that I just don't worry about it. As you noted, this makes it impossible to keep my LB tight and above my waist at all times. I do the best I can with it, but I choose good 2-handed grip over "proper" LB use every time.

Of course my stick could fail and my lack of proper LB use could make it ineffective at preventing a fall, which could mean my slack induced tether is creating an unacceptable fall factor... and so on and so forth. No one should do what I do cause it's dangerous and improper climbing methodology. I have no expertise and offer no recommendations.



Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk


Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk
 
Nosaj said:
I had the same thing happen my first season with a movable aider and full size Hawks. I cut up the inside of my leg as well and shortly after someone posted pictures of doing the same thing and having to go to the hospital due to the lacerations from landing on the step below. I moved on to one sticking my second season. Glad to hear you are all right.
Click to expand...
it never happened to me, but my paranoia about it is what made me go one stick and rappel. I hated descending on sticks and won't go back.
 
I also hate CAYG aiders. I use a 3 step 17" step length from bottom steps with no issues. two points of contact on the stick give very high initial stability. single point wants to kick out so you're fighting it, not to mention longer lever because its way up the stick
 
GeoFish said:
You keep talking like that and I will have to go back to steps, cause I ain't going to go 2TC, LOL.
Click to expand...

that's what i did

i used my tree hoppers the next hunt....it added maybe 5 minutes to my climb....and felt so much safer and easier

i ordered another dozen tree hopper steps just to have in reserve....hope to use them for a long time

will keep the tethrd one sticks just in case....probably use them again but with hands on the stick

i feel dumb learning the hard way on this one....that little light bulb stayed dim.....hate that
 
raisins said:
that's what i did

i used my tree hoppers the next hunt....it added maybe 5 minutes to my climb....and felt so much safer and easier

i ordered another dozen tree hopper steps just to have in reserve....hope to use them for a long time

will keep the tethrd one sticks just in case....probably use them again but with hands on the stick

i feel dumb learning the hard way on this one....that little light bulb stayed dim.....hate that
Click to expand...
Hunting is full of humbling moments(well at least for me). Glad it turned out OK!
 
Glad you are okay. Could have been worse for sure.

I have never cared for CAYG aiders. I’m really not a fan of aiders on my sticks at height. I prefer to use a two step aider on my bottom stick only. After that, it’s straight sticks. I do have a few single step cable aiders on two sets of sticks. For these, I only use an aider on the first two sticks. Sticks 3 and 4 don’t have aiders.

Everybody is different, but this is what works for me.

With sticks getting lighter and lighter, I can see why many are opting for carrying a fifth and even sixth stick and eliminating aiders all together.
 
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