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Climbing Safety Best Practices

J

John RB

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
854
Location
Fort Washington, PA
Feel free to use this thread to post your own best practices for safety. Let's pitch in and help someone else. As for me, I have been slowly compiling this list for years and have now committed it to memory to the point where I can just rattle it off. It helps me in my own decisions and hope it helps you in yours. Good luck this season to everyone, and first and foremost, I make sure that you are safe!

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John RB said:
Feel free to use this thread to post your own best practices for safety. Let's pitch in and help someone else. As for me, I have been slowly compiling this list for years and have now committed it to memory to the point where I can just rattle it off. It helps me in my own decisions and hope it helps you in yours. Good luck this season to everyone, and first and foremost, I make sure that you are safe!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I get hives watching people load their tether carabiners with the screw gate facing the tree and the screw locking upwards.

Gate towards user, screw it down “so you don’t screw up”.
 
DelaWhere_Arrow said:
I get hives watching people load their tether carabiners with the screw gate facing the tree and the screw locking upwards.

Gate towards user, screw it down “so you don’t screw up”.
Click to expand...
That doesn't apply here. That rule came from rock climbing anchors set way above us that could have vibrations moving the gate and we can't inspect or control em. Research it. On our bridge, we control the carabiner. It can be oriented any way that's convenient. And nobody should be using screwgates for a bridge. I don't.

My carabiner is a swivel. If i turn 360 degrees, at some point, the gate will face the tree. But it can't contact the tree cuz i am in the way.


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John RB said:
That doesn't apply here. That rule came from rock climbing anchors set way above us that could have vibrations moving the gate and we can't inspect or control em. Research it. On our bridge, we control the carabiner. It can be oriented any way that's convenient. And nobody should be using screwgates for a bridge. I don't.

My carabiner is a swivel. If i turn 360 degrees, at some point, the gate will face the tree. But it can't contact the tree cuz i am in the way.


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Click to expand...
Almost everyone on here uses screw gates for bridge to tether connection.
 
Ditchdiver said:
Why NOT a screwgate on your bridge?
Honestly curious, since that's what I use on mine.
Click to expand...
@DelaWhere_Arrow and @Ditchdiver,

The reason to use triple Action is because they are safer.
1. Ya cant forget to lock em. I see photos posted all the time where the gate isn't locked.
2. I use and recommend the munter. There are scenarios where someone is using it improperly and allowing the Rope to spin across the gate. This can open a screw lock.

It doesn't matter that most people are using em, that's just because that's what they were sold. In the future, you'll be seeing triple action as the standard.

Screw gate hardware

I am thinking about getting a hitch pulley and it looks like an oval screw gate (carabiner ?) would be a clean connection. My current set up has a delta screw gate coming off the saddle. I know that dual and triple operation on carabiners is desired or maybe required by many. So if I use a...
www.arboristsite.com www.arboristsite.com



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John RB said:
@DelaWhere_Arrow and @Ditchdiver,

The reason to use triple Action is because they are safer.
1. Ya cant forget to lock em. I see photos posted all the time where the gate isn't locked.
2. I use and recommend the munter. There are scenarios where someone is using it improperly and allowing the Rope to spin across the gate. This can open a screw lock.

It doesn't matter that most people are using em, that's just because that's what they were sold. In the future, you'll be seeing triple action as the standard.

Screw gate hardware

I am thinking about getting a hitch pulley and it looks like an oval screw gate (carabiner ?) would be a clean connection. My current set up has a delta screw gate coming off the saddle. I know that dual and triple operation on carabiners is desired or maybe required by many. So if I use a...
www.arboristsite.com www.arboristsite.com



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Click to expand...
I’m sorry John but I have to disagree with you here yet again… Both about the direction of the carabiner gate (because running against the tree can do the same things as a quick draw rubbing against a rock, and especially the triple action being the standard.
TMA nor ASTM require a triple locking carabiner for recreational fall arrest harnesses (most are steel screw gate over 22kN strength nor does UIAA require or recommend it for rock climbing. What makes you think the recreation
positioning harness standards will require triple action?
Triple action is only required for commercial arborist standards. So far none of the suggested standards I have seen being brought up mirror arborist standards. Have you some insider knowledge that I’m not aware of?
 
I agree with @John RB on the bridge. (If we are talking about the actual bridge) If you have a bridge With a biner on the end, Don't use a screw gate. You will never check it. Just for the bridge.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
I’m sorry John but I have to disagree with you here yet again… Both about the direction of the carabiner gate (because running against the tree can do the same things as a quick draw rubbing against a rock, and especially the triple action being the standard.
TMA nor ASTM require a triple locking carabiner for recreational fall arrest harnesses (most are steel screw gate over 22kN strength nor does UIAA require or recommend it for rock climbing. What makes you think the recreation
positioning harness standards will require triple action?
Triple action is only required for commercial arborist standards. So far none of the suggested standards I have seen being brought up mirror arborist standards. Have you some insider knowledge that I’m not aware of?
Click to expand...
Appreciate your position and response. I cant convey my tone in text, so pls don't consider this a debate; it's a mature discussion. Thx.

1. I climbed on screw gates for many years. I can't tell you i never forgot to lock one. For example, on my DRT/MRS system, probably 5 years ago, after a long season, one dusky evening, i shot a huge buck, and watched him go down! Overwhelmed with excitement, i transitioned into rappel on the munter and came down faster than usual. Safely at the bottom of the tree, i found out i never locked my screwgate!

2.Thursday night i got a text, which turned into a phone call, from a climber who wanted to tell me my JRB Hitch saved his life. He was rappelling on a munter but doesn't know what he did wrong. He believes he forgot to lock his screwgate and then when maneuvering down between branches, allowed his rope to go against the gate and the munter popped out. I personally believe he formed it incorrectly with the control strand on the gate side instead of the strand but this will remain a mystery. He got some rope burn before letting go and allowing the friction hitch to do its job as a backup.

3. The majority of saddle hunters are not experienced climbers and simply cant be trusted to lock their gates. I see posts regularly with unlocked gates.

To be clear, I am fine with any locked carabiner with nothing touching the gate. I just think a triple action auto locker is the best way to ensure that.

Furthermore, I am now recommending captive eye carabiners for bridges. This will prevent unexpected side loads. I have seen em show up whenever slack is shown to a carabiner. See updates on item 6. The DMM Ceros is fantastic.

Shopping List - jrbtreeclimbing.com

Use "JRB10" Code for 10% Discount at: https://www.rocknarbor.com/product-category/outdoors/saddle-hunting Use this page, and the supporting pages, to make your own shopping list for everything necessary to build a Climbing System. Also consider which climbing methods you want to use with the...
jrbtreeclimbing.com

There was an earlier comment about gate down. I maintain my position: on our bridge, triple action and gate up is not only fine, but is the only way i can orient my swivel. I took this photo in my tree while reading this post earlier today, but my hands were getting too cold to type, lol. When i clip into my hitches in my doubled rope system, the gate is always facing the side as i face the tree. But i am on no platform and can rotate more than 90degrees each way. The gate is gonna face the tree when i go right. But it won't touch it.
4bfe32e5eb6e6d3c594b7bfad174861f.jpg


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John RB said:
3. The majority of saddle hunters are not experienced climbers and simply cant be trusted to lock their gates. I see posts regularly with unlocked gates.

To be clear, I am fine with any locked carabiner with nothing touching the gate. I just think a triple action auto locker is the best way to ensure that.
Click to expand...

Even amongst professional climbers, every once in a while I'd work with someone that insisted on screw gates for one reason or another. Inevitably I see them forgetting to screw the gates now and again. Personally I don't see the attraction to them, they're a lot more fiddly than one quick fluid movement opening an autolocker
 
John RB said:
Appreciate your position and response. I cant convey my tone in text, so pls don't consider this a debate; it's a mature discussion. Thx.

1. I climbed on screw gates for many years. I can't tell you i never forgot to lock one. For example, on my DRT/MRS system, probably 5 years ago, after a long season, one dusky evening, i shot a huge buck, and watched him go down! Overwhelmed with excitement, i transitioned into rappel on the munter and came down faster than usual. Safely at the bottom of the tree, i found out i never locked my screwgate!

2.Thursday night i got a text, which turned into a phone call, from a climber who wanted to tell me my JRB Hitch saved his life. He was rappelling on a munter but doesn't know what he did wrong. He believes he forgot to lock his screwgate and then when maneuvering down between branches, allowed his rope to go against the gate and the munter popped out. I personally believe he formed it incorrectly with the control strand on the gate side instead of the strand but this will remain a mystery. He got some rope burn before letting go and allowing the friction hitch to do its job as a backup.

3. The majority of saddle hunters are not experienced climbers and simply cant be trusted to lock their gates. I see posts regularly with unlocked gates.

To be clear, I am fine with any locked carabiner with nothing touching the gate. I just think a triple action auto locker is the best way to ensure that.

Furthermore, I am now recommending captive eye carabiners for bridges. This will prevent unexpected side loads. I have seen em show up whenever slack is shown to a carabiner. See updates on item 6. The DMM Ceros is fantastic.

Shopping List - jrbtreeclimbing.com

Use "JRB10" Code for 10% Discount at: https://www.rocknarbor.com/product-category/outdoors/saddle-hunting Use this page, and the supporting pages, to make your own shopping list for everything necessary to build a Climbing System. Also consider which climbing methods you want to use with the...
jrbtreeclimbing.com

There was an earlier comment about gate down. I maintain my position: on our bridge, triple action and gate up is not only fine, but is the only way i can orient my swivel. I took this photo in my tree while reading this post earlier today, but my hands were getting too cold to type, lol. When i clip into my hitches in my doubled rope system, the gate is always facing the side as i face the tree. But i am on no platform and can rotate more than 90degrees each way. The gate is gonna face the tree when i go right. But it won't touch it.
4bfe32e5eb6e6d3c594b7bfad174861f.jpg


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Click to expand...
Thank you for clarifying. You are using a swivel which allows your hitch to roll and bridge to still maintain its natural orientation. A normal non-swivel carabiner the bridge and hitch could roll, the bridge usually wins the day and the hitch rolls. In that instance I feel the old adage screw down so you don’t screw up should apply. There is no debate that a triple action carabiner is the safest option to avoid accidental openings however they are not full proof. If released quickly, they are prone to not close so you should always double check a triple action to assure it’s closed fully and in the locked position. You should always do the same with a screw gate (double action) carabiner. Check that it’s fully closed and screwed down.
So when you mentioned that triple action would soon be the standard, are you referring to your system that you create the materials list for? I interpreted it as you were suggesting the standards committee would make it mandatory for saddle companies.
 
brydan said:
Even amongst professional climbers, every once in a while I'd work with someone that insisted on screw gates for one reason or another. Inevitably I see them forgetting to screw the gates now and again. Personally I don't see the attraction to them, they're a lot more fiddly than one quick fluid movement opening an autolocker
Click to expand...
The attraction to them is usually weight and price. Auto locking especially triple action carabiners are more expensive and also heavier than a climbing rated screw lock.
 
The biggest concern I have because so many people tell me they do this is disconnecting your lineman's belt without being connected to the tree. Everyone I ask how they get around branches safely is they bear hug the tree, then disconnect to get around the branch. Its insanity. You can girth hitch a thin piece of daisy chain to your left loop and keep it in your pocket till you hit the branch you need to get around. You are literally saving 15 seconds of your time by not doing this and just bear-hugging the tree instead. 15 seconds can save you a lifetime of physical, mental, and financial hardship or worse.
 
bigmike23 said:
The biggest concern I have because so many people tell me they do this is disconnecting your lineman's belt without being connected to the tree. Everyone I ask how they get around branches safely is they bear hug the tree, then disconnect to get around the branch. Its insanity. You can girth hitch a thin piece of daisy chain to your left loop and keep it in your pocket till you hit the branch you need to get around. You are literally saving 15 seconds of your time by not doing this and just bear-hugging the tree instead. 15 seconds can save you a lifetime of physical, mental, and financial hardship or worse.
Click to expand...

It's not hard to climb with your tether and lineman's both in use and going to one to get around branches. It might add one minute to my climb to push my tether ahead of me and tend its slack while being held in place by my lineman's lanyard. It also leaves everything right there to use and almost forces you to have at least one in place while moving around branches. When I move the tether above a branch, I am especially mindful to remove all slack prior to disconnecting the lineman's.

Also, when connected twice to the tree (well, a lineman's isn't a technical connection) , then it usually requires two rather than one brain fart to cause a fall, just in routine use.
 
Fl Canopy Stalker said:
Thank you for clarifying. You are using a swivel which allows your hitch to roll and bridge to still maintain its natural orientation. A normal non-swivel carabiner the bridge and hitch could roll, the bridge usually wins the day and the hitch rolls. In that instance I feel the old adage screw down so you don’t screw up should apply. There is no debate that a triple action carabiner is the safest option to avoid accidental openings however they are not full proof. If released quickly, they are prone to not close so you should always double check a triple action to assure it’s closed fully and in the locked position. You should always do the same with a screw gate (double action) carabiner. Check that it’s fully closed and screwed down.
So when you mentioned that triple action would soon be the standard, are you referring to your system that you create the materials list for? I interpreted it as you were suggesting the standards committee would make it mandatory for saddle companies.
Click to expand...
I just meant that because auto lockers lock automatically, and because many climbers are not locking them, either because they forget or because they don't think it's necessary, that it's my expectation that as we evolve, responsible suppliers will start including them with their product offering rather than screw gates.


As for the other separate comment made above above made about size, weight or cost of an autolocker, here's my perspective: Nobody is more minimalist than me. But I won't skimp on my LIFELINE. The weight difference is not worthy of conversation because its negligible. And if we can mitigate risks like sideloading and forgetting to lock our gate with a carabiner that cost $20 more, it's worth it.

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