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BassBoysLLP said:
You got to give a lot of credit to @g2outdoors and @flinginairos. It has been a top notch marketing campaign. The videos flinginairos put together generated interest like crazy. So many hunters didn't realize the benefits of saddle hunting and how the predator platform works into the equation. The response has been pretty amazing to say the least. Many had never seen these small pivot platforms used in conjunction with the saddle. They had only been exposed to the Eberhart and his ring of screw in steps. The weight savings is huge. So many positives the last couple months. ALL the saddle companies should see a benefit.

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Spam for dinner. Spam for lunch. Spam for breakfast.Spam on your thread. Spam on mine. Spam on Archerytalk. Spam. Spam. Spam.

Push it. Push it real good.
 
Boudreaux said:
Classic saddle hunter thread derailment in full force....

Everything I have always done has been for the hunters and the people. I have never tried to build my "outdoor" brand. While most people try to get into the outdoor industry, I don't want to be a part of it. I am a typically hunter who offers up my advise and does gear reviews to offer my opinion. Heck look at my youtube videos, I spend more time show the products I'm reviewing or techniques I'm conveying. I have never been in this for face recognition, brand building, or stroke my own self-esteem.

After seeing the knock off job done by two members of this forum. It shows exactly why I don't like the outdoor industry. People will do anything to build their brand/name, they will go as far as to knock off a product. I have no problem with the saddle community growing and new saddles being built, but at least design your own.... its a knock off all the way down to the adjustment strap.

Looks kinda bad that Aero Hunter donated 4 special saddles to Saddlepalloza only to have the event coordinator knock off the kestrel with a guy who openly knocked off the kestrel on the forum....

We spent years working to develop saddles for people just like this, we worked for 3 years to develop the kestrel. It took years to figure out the adjustment strap was the single thing that improved the prototype we had of almost 3 years. They knocked it off in months, they didn't need to go thought years of testing and design because they knocked off a proven product. Our saddle has YEARS of field testing, we have prototypes that have more time in the woods than knock off nations saddle.

I'm disappointed to see members of this form applaud the outright and obvious theft of a company hard work, years of dedication and innovation. Look at the two products and honestly tell me that it's not a knockoff. Remember knock off nation is doing this "for all the right reasons" .

This is my busy time of year at work, so I don't get on here much

Just remember saddle hunters, if you have and idea or a product. Knock off nation is lurking..


Thanks,
Boswell

P.S. Ernie is a good dude, I would share a camp with him any day!
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This is inappropriate as I would and have supported both companies. This is how division is created in our community and while yes you guys worked hard at Aerohunter/Newtribe and brought this community an exceptional product that changed the expectations of what we want in a saddle. Now a new guy(s) step in to improve upon what was given to them as a palette to start with and you bash them... poor behavior.

I have always liked your videos and thought you were knowledgeable on the subject as you probably have years of experience and knowledge I do not. However, there are others out there that share the desire to share their stuff as well.

I want to point out that Aerohunter gave us the community a design that would change the way future builds would be designed. The new guys who you so trashed came up with a completely different version based off the previous design. They addressed issues the mass community of saddle hunters had after further use of the kestrel.

Furthermore I will continue to say everyone’s products in some shape and form are copies just look at the commercial treestand industry. Newtribe/Aerohunter have been the sole dominator of the saddle industry only opposed by the web for some time. I also doubt Aerohunter who made a statement supporting Tethrd knows of your comment and if they condone such behavior then that is sad as well but i highly doubt they do know.

Poor sportsmanship from someone I regarded as a great ambassador of saddle hunting.

P.S.

Not looking to argue or wage war as its not worth my time but the post I felt needed to be addressed as that kind of behavior will or could ultimately change the mindset of the mass newcomers on here. Remember this is a place to come together regardless of what saddle you buy and share tips and experiences with one another free of malicious statements.
 
DaveT1963 said:
You know someone calls my name and asks me a question, I responded. Sorry my response doesn't meet your idea of a proper response. I replied to the man's question. I have stated numerous times on here and on my YouTube the kestrel is a good saddle, especially for beginners. I was asked for feedback, and one by one the responder shot down my suggestions. That's one of the primary reason I seldom post here anymore and instead answer questions through PM as there are an isolated few that discredit anything anyone says that doesn't fit their thought pattern. I still remember the time the same person that responded to my Kestrel input (which they asked for) denounced G2 when he posted the thread about camouflaging his sticks and preceded to give us an attempted biological lecture on how deer see - which was full of holes BTW).

However, to appease you (although I doubt that is possible) here is what I recommended to new tribe:

1) Get rid of the heavy metal leg buckles.
2) Move the lineman's loops forward as it is awkward in the dark to hook up safely when going around limbs
3) Go to a better Bridge without the huge knots (Amsteel or strap)
4) Get rid of all the Molle loops, a few well placed is far better
5) Come up with a quick detachable bag to carry gear

A quick check of the new saddle from G2 ADDRESSSES ALL MY INITIAL THOUGHTS/CONCERNS after having used the kestrel for a full season. So for me, while the Kestrel is a well made hunting saddle, the new option by G2 looks to be far SUPERIOR and HALF the PRICE. Now if that doesn't float your boat, I recommend simply moving past my posts in the future.
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The reason I like this site is that everyone can express their opinions on things and not get any slack about it. I hope we aren't going in the direction of some of the other hunting sites. I think that as a community we would welcome everyones opinion and respect each other's views. I hope that we all still will give are opinions and views without prejudice. Let's all get along.
 
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The sit n drag has been out since 2010... He's the real OG :) All tree stands use the same basic principle, compound bows, cars/trucks, swing seats; oh and every rock climbing harness/safety haness ever made.

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Knockoff? I wish. Harbor freight is a knockoff from other tooling company’s but there quality less and so is the price. If the mantis is a knockoff it should be a 50 dollar bill.


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After some thinking i just felt i needed to add to my post. After that ill be done because giving to much attention to a negative thing just makes it more negative.

I have owned just about every saddle out there. Each one is different but they all share similarities. Arguably the kestrel could be considered with all due respect a heavy duty sitdrag. I have both and so i can say that as they feel very similar to me. I also continue to use both now and help teach or show some one the benefits of saddle hunting.

I mean lets face it the non hunting saddles on Newtribes site, petzl, misty mountain, just to name a few all look similar but each manufacturer claims a different thing about the vast ones they make. All copies with little tweaks which make them different just like people are different.

I am not famous, don’t have a YouTube channel yet, just got facebook, but on here saddlehunter.com i would view myself as an active member. I don’t view myself as this extraordinary diyer like the rest of these guys however my participation in and on this site makes me an ambassador somewhat so i try to share experiences and steer people to the appropriate source of information. This is my duty and your’s @Boudreaux is no different. If you didn’t want to be in the hunting industry then you shouldn’t be working in it. But the fact remains you can’t test, promote, go to trade shows and then state “I never wanted to be in the hunting industry”. Regardless you need to own it you are a part of it and you need to accept it.

I know i didnt grow up hunting or fishing. Im self taught and work hard just like most hunters. I have had great success and admire the guys who have such talent and great ideas that they post freely on here. I would give so much to be in the position you are with a company... testing and giving feedback on gear. Promoting oh my god meeting people and talking hunting what a dream!! Yeah i envy you and anyone else in a similar position because i have the same passion and would love to do what ya’ll do!!

I really do appreciate you and all you have done. One day i hope i get a chance to meet you and shake your hand. But you can’t just rag on a couple dudes who wanted something else and were committed to lining up all the logistics with starting a business that manufactures saddles and platforms.

At this point i will not comment further on the subject unless a productive conversation is to take place. I wish you well Boswell!
 
Sparrowhawk said:
Spam for dinner. Spam for lunch. Spam for breakfast.Spam on your thread. Spam on mine. Spam on Archerytalk. Spam. Spam. Spam.

Push it. Push it real good.
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Even before the new saddle sparrowhawk seldom had anything good or constructive to say.
Bobbie has done many good good things for saddle hunting. Try to refrain from mud slinging Bobby. Sparrow hawk has been mostly a downer on this site
Sparrowhawk is a negative for New Tribes. I have bought 4 of your saddles but I wonder if I will buy another.

Is sparrowhawk now worried about the influence of this site on his company. I thought he said that we did not influence kestrel sales.
Fliningairos and G 2 certainly promoted the kestrel IMO. They have probably sold more than a few people on the Kestrel.

Perhaps Sophia or Debbie should do the PR stuff for the company. They have typically shown more grace.

New Tribes has done a good job with the Kestrel. A free country, free enterprise. Get out and compete and listen to the customers.
If I do not improve every year in my business I will not be in business in the future. If I farmed like I did in 1984 and was at the same level of productivity I would be bankrupt. Since 1984 corn, soyabean, pork and wheat productivity have all mostly doubled

I wish New tribes all the best. Change and innovation comes fast... Remember the Blackberry and what Apple did to it. Or 8 track tapes, CD's and now what are they. Blackberry did not listen to the customers and lost market share quickly. Remember Kodak... Or Kmart or Sears and now Amazons the new deal.

The Mantis is much lighter and it looks like the material may be more comfortable and the price is great. Is it the same as the Kestrel. NO. Is it similar... even the sit drag is similar so yes.

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What @MCDM has said is spot on. There will be no need for me to say anything else as he has hit on every point and how I feel about the subject. It was said without being mean-spirited or taking shots at anybody. His words are extremely wise and we could all learn something from them. Thank you sir for sharing your words of wisdom with us and not going on a rant!

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I think it’s pretty easy to see that the mantis is a pretty big departure from the Kestrel. From the pictures and videos, it looks much more like a Trophyline/SitDrag hybrid than a Kestrel clone.

Of course Tethrd dissected and rebuilt the Kestrel to get a full understanding of all its pros, cons, production efficiencies, etc... that’s called good market research.

The shape is quite different, the accessories are improved and streamlined, the side adjustment is removable. NewTribe pioneered that side adjustment feature, and any serious market contender will have something similar from here on out.

I know when you have worked hard on something for several years, it is easy to feel like it is your baby. And when there’s a possible hint of a threat it’s easy to get into protection mode. But, the Kestrel is a SOLID product and has the lions share of the market and exposure.

There is definitely room in the market for two saddle companies without bickering, and I haven’t heard anyone from Tethrd say a negative thing about New Tribe online or in person.

Let’s not turn this awesome forum into another Archery Talk with constant bickering. So, like I tell my son.... if what you have to say is nothing but negative, DONT SAY IT!


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I think @Boudreaux wrote his post
out of frustration.

The one thing that all good companies do is listen. They do not want to share trade secrets or ideas openly, as another company may beat them to market. I applaud both Tethrd and AeroHntr for listening to the community.

There is such a thing as friendly and good competition. We need companies such as Aero Hunter, Tethrd, ARC, Guido Web and it appears a rememergence of TrophyLine to be successful. We do not need negativity towards such a great way to hunt.

I wish I had hunted like this 20 years ago. I have had multiple questions and answers by everyone hear on this forum. I think it through and make an informed decision.
 
ImThere said:
Nothing good can come out of this thread. I think it should be deleted.
@redsquirrel


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I think venting and discussing may help some guys move forward. People say this forum is like a family, well families do not stay together when they don’t vent or talk. Hopefully the parties involved can just talk it out or at least agree to disagree and move forward. As an outsider I can see both sides of the coin and both viewpoints. Not sure there is a right or wrong side.

I do think saddle hunting is the winner. We have been needing companies to step up give us options. Guys went nuts for the kestrel and I’ll sure they will for the mesh version. Now if only Trophyline will show back up! Lol I do see a lot of money exchanging hands and that’s a positive.



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I have owned some type of saddle ever since the Anderson sling came out. Guido's web has a strong resemblance to a Treesuit the Trophyline resembled a Anderson sling without the seat material. The Kestrel kinda resembles the TL and on and on. There are always going to be productes that look like ones that came before. Saddles evolve they change and people and companies run with ideas to make a better one. There is nothing wrong with that. If we didn't try to improve on things that are made then nothing would change for the better. Just my opinion .
 
Jefferson10940 said:
I think venting and discussing may help some guys move forward. People say this forum is like a family, well families do not stay together when they don’t vent or talk. Hopefully the parties involved can just talk it out or at least agree to disagree and move forward. As an outsider I can see both sides of the coin and both viewpoints. Not sure there is a right or wrong side.

I do think saddle hunting is the winner. We have been needing companies to step up give us options. Guys went nuts for the kestrel and I’ll sure they will for the mesh version. Now if only Trophyline will show back up! Lol I do see a lot of money exchanging hands and that’s a positive.



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I agree but I think most families can handle this in the background.
I think it was already said if I came over from another site and this was the first thing I saw I would bail ASAP


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I have bought two trophylines saddles,a web,a kestrel,now a mantis and as long as the saddles keep improving I will continue to purchase new saddles.So let’s not stop improving and let competition work and continue to evolve the saddle and platform and climbing methods.
 
It’s a tough market. Something shiny just came out that shakes things up. Good!

The Kestrel is the reigning champ, a contender has risen. Welcome the challenge.

I don’t think it’s an easy choice between a Kestrel and a Mantis. Ignoring saddle features, New Tribe is a solid company compared to Tethrd Nation, who’s just beginning.

So there is more for people to consider than simply how shiny something is.

On the other hand it seems this community will just buy one of everything anyway.... :)

In closing, exciting times!
 
I love my Kestrel, IMO it was a great improvement over the EVO which I continually struggled to get set comfortably. AeroHunter made great strides between the two designs and truely provided some saddle innovation. I am sure I will be very happy with the Mantis when it arrives and the additional innovation generated by the Tetherd team. The fact of the matter is that I was comfortable buying it since I already have a very viable saddle I know I can fall back on. What I'm trying to say is that I believe there is plenty of room for multiple companies even for a single hunter.

@Boudreaux , I can appreciate some of your feelings but I hope you'll continue to contribute here in a positive manner. I personally have found your input and suggestions very useful and you are a recognized authority in the saddle hunting arts and have been a true ambassador for it.

ImThere said:
I think it was already said if I came over from another site and this was the first thing I saw I would bail ASAP
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@ImThere, I agree with this thoroughly. I for one was hesitant to join this forum when I first found it as I had tired of the bickering and personal attacks that regularly occurred on other similar sites. I lurked here for several months before I finally realized what a great group of guys were on here and felt comfortable joining in. I would hate to see others not feel welcome here for a similar reason.
 
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