Concealed Carry

[BTaylor]

I know we have some LEO present in the room, I’d really like their take on this as it’s VERY important especially for the new folks:
When you get pulled over, do you inform the officer you are CC? I’m not looking to start a fight here, and I know everyone has an opinion. I’ve been told yes and I’ve been told no, both opinions coming from LEOs and I understand their logic.
This is an area that hasn’t been discussed yet and I feel remiss for not bringing it up in my earlier post.
Edit: to the OP(@Mschmeiske) most CC classes will have a police officer or attorney speak to the class and cover this topic. I’m more so wanting the viewpoint of different LEOs from hopefully different states.

Got stopped right a month or so after getting my license. Head light went out on the way to deer camp and it was close to midnight. Pistol was in the center console with registration and insurance card. When the officer approached, he asked for license, registration and ins. I handed him my DL and CC and told him the other papers were in the console and I wasnt opening that until he was aware and ok'd it. He laughed, thanked me for informing him and said leave it closed.

 

[Blacksmith]

A good friend of mine has been trying to get me to come train BJJ with him for the last two years now I think? I just have so many hobbies…or maybe it’s just excuses. It might be time to make a sacrifice for something more important. As for informing an officer if pulled over, I don’t believe we have to notify them. I’ll double check. Personally, I have mixed feelings about the matter…. If during an encounter they asked me, I’d certainly tell them. If they do not ask, I’m unsure…. I’ll have to put some thought into this. Some of you won’t like my response, I bet far fewer will agree with me, but idk you, (the officer) anymore than you know me. A job title doesn’t reign Supreme for me no matter what it is…. I’ve seen both good and bad cops through personal experience, and I’ve also watched how some have treated me vs. my non white friends, particularly my buddy Jamie on several occasions. Those are stories for another day though….

Sorry you've had bad experiences w/ the police. I know there are good and bad folks in any field(same as saddle hunters, ha). I have utmost respect for L.E. after 20 yrs. on the job. I realize some pin on a badge and think they are better than you but I believe that's the exception and not the rule. I know some mighty fine officers that give daily to protect you. Normally a little respect goes a long way when you are being dealt with. In Ohio we no longer have to tell them if we are carrying at the time of a stop, only if you have it w/you. I believe it's a practice to tell them either way as they already know anyway from your tags.

 

[Mschmeiske]

Sorry you've had bad experiences w/ the police. I know there are good and bad folks in any field(same as saddle hunters, ha). I have utmost respect for L.E. after 20 yrs. on the job. I realize some pin on a badge and think they are better than you but I believe that's the exception and not the rule. I know some mighty fine officers that give daily to protect you. Normally a little respect goes a long way when you are being dealt with. In Ohio we no longer have to tell them if we are carrying at the time of a stop, only if you have it w/you. I believe it's a practice to tell them either way as they already know anyway from your tags.

I agree in any field it happens! My landlord who rents me my tattoo studio was an officer. He got hurt on the job and is retired now. He’s a great guy. I should also have mentioned, I have had some pleasant encounters too and they were more than fair to me. I’m sure it’s not an easy job by any means.

 

[JBDaddy]

Duty to inform or not, it's usually a good idea to communicate to law enforcement - if you're the subject of an encounter - that you're armed, in a calm manner. It frames the presence of your firearm as something you're not hiding from them, not trying to surprise them with, and shares that you're not trying to be a threat to their safety. I live in a "duty to inform" state, and was taught to say something like, "Officer, just so you're aware, I have a concealed carry license and a firearm on me. It's on my right side. I'm not going to be reaching for it, not trying to surprise you, just trying to keep us both safe." It's like showing a military ID when you're asked for ID when pulled over for speeding. It might get you some favor, if you show you're being responsible, respectful and courteous.

After that, follow their lead/instructions and remain calm, slow and cautiously deliberate. Tell them if you're moving your hands near it, and make sure they're aware/safe too. If they violate your civil rights by demanding it, disarming you, etc., you can work that out later (sue, whatever) if you're not escalating tension - but you have to be alive and out of jail to do that. A firearm is a defense of last resort, not a testosterone competition. You can get another gun.

Also, not seeing it represented much yet -- but First Aid. If you're going to have a firearm with you, have an IFAK within reach (in your home, in your vehicle) that contains a tourniquet, and know how to use it to render aid to victims of gunshots. While firearms defense doctrine is to shoot until the threat is stopped (and that's up to your discretion), preparation to aid victims also helps show you're not just about feeling big with it, but about being responsible in a world where they exist, increase peril, and justify having one. Same concept as not advertising with a Glock window sticker, etc.

 

[SNIPERBBB]

MD just came out with a bill that basically wont let me carry within 100ft of any building. I knew it was coming. They said the people have to "feel safe" "If people don’t feel safe, nothing else matters" .

'feeling' safe doesnt really matter though does it? its just an illusion. I AM safe when im armed. My wife and baby ARE SAFE when she's armed (trust me, shes the little lady at the range that makes everybodys jaw drop threading the same hole at 15 yds with a micro 9). Statistically, nobody that has a concealed carry license is a threat to anyone around them. I dont understand it. why should my 115 lb wife "feel" safe now that she cant carry and no one around her can either? The only people that are going to be carrying are the crack heads and gang members who carry illegally anyways.

Im leaving this state as soon as i have the chance again. I should have never came back. I dont understand what data they are following. The stricter laws do not help. We took one step forward and 200 steps back.

This is exactly the mindset that Mike Rowe's Safety Third is decrying. The belief that there are rules, safety guys, gun free zones are keeping you safe. It lulls you into a false sense of security and danger now lurks much nearer than it would otherwise.

 

[cedar paul]

The best gun control is 2 hands holding it! When faced with a life threatening situation how many rounds is sufficient- until your gun runs dry. Evil needs to be really dead. With all the ruminations about gun confiscation it is refreshing to see the growing number of sheriff's that are refusing to Inforce unconstitutional gun laws- they truly our barrier to tyranny. I will stand shoulder to shoulder with my local law enforcement but when the state police become brown shirts that work for corrupt governor's like we have in my state well that is another matter indeed. 2nd amendment was never about hunting but a deterrent to tyranny.

 

[GreginPA]

also, i don't talk about guns or concealed carry with many folks, especially anyone at work or random groups

Been thinking about this. I think it is definitely good advice for work and random groups as well as for "younger" people.

However when you get older you generally "hang" out with less people and have a smaller social circle. For example - my social circle is essentially people I've known for many years. All of them know exactly who I am and that I carry more often than not, likely because it came up that I was headed to the range and they asked questions. I know the same about them, sometimes the friendship became stronger because we had common gun related interests. So at some point in your life it is ok to let that guard down a little. It is also ideal to know who else in your "party" is armed if SHTF. (slightly unrelated - I love pointing out to my wife all the people I see printing in public)

Of course this all assumes you aren't making friends with idiots once you are older.

 

[Iron_llama]

Congrats on your CCW! Seems like quite an accomplishment in NYS, considering all of the bureaucratic hurdles in your way.

I carry a G19 as my EDC piece, sometimes swap it out for a G26, or a J-frame. I really like that 43X. If I'm sober, I'm armed; I'll lock it up before I so much as sniff a cork.

Consider getting an Airsoft gun that fits your 43X holsters. When I was new to CCW, I'd do quick-draw and other drills at home with a pellet gun. Carrying a pistol felt awkward at first, and I was very self-conscious until I got used to it.

Any gun I might get in a gunfight with has night sights and a light (or laser). I like the Streamlight TLR6 and TLR7. There's data that LE shootings are more likely to happen at night and I think the same dynamic holds for DGUs. Get a light and take a low-light class.

Get a good belt. Sounds like you've done that, anyway. I'm wearing a Kore Essentials right now but also have a Nexbelt in the rotation. Ditch any non-reinforced, department-store belt you might have. 5.11, Galco, Nexbelt, Milt Sparks, Mitch Rosen, Gould & Goodrich, Mean Gene, Magpul, etc. Either a double layer of thick leather, or reinforced with polymer. Your LGS should have at least a few options. On that note, it's worth spending a few bucks to support your LGS instead of Jeff Bezos.

Your future wardrobe decisions will be made with CCW in mind. We men have it easier because it's fashionable to wear loose, baggy clothing. Avoid tacticool pants and khaki "shoot-me-first" vests. Likewise, avoid wearing your opinion on your sleeve. Grunt Style has some really moto stuff but the idea is to not draw attention to yourself, and not provoke anyone who does notice you. Plain or local-sports-team t-shirts and hoodies, untucked plaid or Hawaiian shirts, etc., are great and will hide a full-size Beretta 96 in an OWB holster, in the AZ heat.

Insurance. USCCA and the NRA, and others, have liability insurance. Talk to your agent, and get a supplemental plan. Include that information in your will for your NOK in the event you've lost the gunfight and the BG is still going after your estate for the fight you put up before losing.

Put a pistol lock box in your car. Never leave your pistol in it overnight. You can security-cable it to hide under your seat, yet remove it at night if you're traveling and want a nightcap in the hotel bar.

If you haven't joined an activist group like the NRA, GOA, JPFO, Pink Pistols, whatever, consider doing so. The legal decisions you benefit from cost money, and future lawsuits won't happen unless they get funded.

 

[Mschmeiske]

I appreciate every one of your replies so far and all of the advice!

 

[sconnieVLP]

All of the tips, pointers, advice detailed above is spot on, but I didn't see in any of the posts the most important (in my opinion) part of the carry is. I would highly recommend doing some serous soul-searching and make 100% sure that you are able to and prepared to take someone else's life. This means a 14, 15, 16 year old kid or a girl. If your intention is to carry to "scare" people if you get into a bad situation then do not carry. If you pull out weapon, please make sure you can use it to take a life to protect yours, and deal with the aftermath of that. I am not trying to be a downer to this as it is a great conversation to have and it is good to be prepared, but this is what is at stake at the end of the day.

Quoting this because this is essentially what I came here to post. I’m pretty deep into “gun culture” or whatever you want to call it and shoot a lot of USPSA. This conversation started with some guys I was squadded with a couple years ago and there were two guys who actually didn’t carry anymore because when they really, truly contemplated having to take a life they didn’t like it. They are accomplished shooters, FAR better than the average person with a CCW permit, but didn’t because of the psychological aspect. My girlfriend is the same way, I’ve talked to her about getting a permit, gun, etc but when I brought the killing aspect up it stopped her. I can tell you it’s not the same as shooting a deer.

Second, are you prepared for everything that comes after? There’s a good chance that you’re going to be charged, particularly in locations where the DA isn’t a fan of CC. You may beat the rap, but there’s a good chance you’re getting put in handcuffs and taken to jail until it’s sorted out. If you’re charged, are you financially able to pay the legal fees to defend yourself? The missed work from the trial and associated events? What about the media coverage? Will you lose your job and your ability to provide for your family because of it?

Then let’s say you beat the criminal charges - how about when the family decides to sue you in civil proceedings? Is your retirement account drained from the criminal proceedings?

I’ll admit, I actually stopped carrying for a while until I could figure out the answers to the questions about what happens next. Eventually I decided to get concealed carry insurance. I would STRONGLY recommend anyone who has a permit and actively carries to look into it and pick a policy that makes the most sense for you.

If reading this makes anyone nervous, good - it should. It’s not as simple as just getting a permit and putting a box of JHPs through your carry gun. There’s so much focus on gear (which I admit I nerd out over too), that the most important aspects get overlooked.

 

[GreginPA]

are you prepared for everything that comes after?

you have fair points to consider. But my question is "are you prepared to deal with the consequences of not defending yourself when you need to". ie death.

As the saying goes - "I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

If you keep your mindset that you aren't getting involved in anything that doesn't directly threaten you or your loved ones you will be fine.

 

[10essee]

I never leave the house without my Hellcat Pro. It was weird the first couple days but now I don’t notice it. As others have said common sense and practice are the key to carry confidence.

 

[thedutchtouch]

Thanks for the thread, reminds me I need to get moving on the training requirements and permit applications before things change again here in MD. Whether I do decide to carry concealed or not (assuming everything goes through, I have no criminal or psychological history so assume I'm good to go) afterwards remains to be seen, but I think it's a good idea to legally have the option in place for myself.

 

[Iron_llama]

I never leave the house without my Hellcat Pro. It was weird the first couple days but now I don’t notice it. As others have said common sense and practice are the key to carry confidence.

Piggybacking on that, and to reiterate a point articulated earlier... if you're going to carry a deadly weapon with the idea that you may one day use it in a fight for your life, you have an ethical - if not legal - obligation to be mild-mannered, sober, humble, non-confrontational, willing to swallow your pride, etc. Different jurisdictions use terms like "de-escalation" or "duty to retreat" or otherwise codify this concept in statute. If you are the sort of person to berate service workers, or indulge in road rage, or get in amusing bar fights, or suffer from certain types of depression, maybe you should be self-aware enough to not arm yourself until you've resolved these things about yourself. This can be an uncomfortable and humbling process. I'm about as big a 2A guy as you'll come across but with rights and privileges come responsibility and discretion.

 

[Wolverinebuckman]

I never got my CCW when I lived in michigan, it annoyed me the expenses behind getting one. The requirement to pay for a shooting class, as well as the permit itself was a major turnoff for me. Michigan was an open carry state, and I just figured if I was ever going into an area that I felt uncomfortable I would just open carry. I feel bad for you guys in the ultra restrictive state.
One month after we arrived in kentucky, a new law went into effect making Kentucky a constitutional carry state, yay! I love the gun laws here. Mine is with me everywhere I go. I can't carry it in at my job, but that's it.

A few weeks ago I got a call at about 1:00 in the morning from my wife that our youngest needed to go into the ER, trouble breathing. I threw on my clothes, grab my gun and hit the car to drive over to her house. With a half hour drive between us I was doing my fair share of "over", and because of a collision with a deer the week before had only one headlight.
Thought that vehicle was approaching me from behind rather quickly.. there go the red and blues!
Officer's flashlight definitely hit the piece on the passenger seat while I was shuffling around in the glove box looking for my insurance card.. nothing was said and he didn't even put his hand on his pistol. Actually let me go quickly with a "just slow down and go take care of your son". I love it here!

My grandfather taught me firearm safety, handling, and usage at a very young age. Having lived in the country the last 4 years I've been blessed to be able to go out and put rounds through my pistol anytime I wanted. Have done plenty of holster draw live fire training, as well as dry fire, out there to become comfortable with it.

I prefer a full sized pistol. Never liked shooting my grandfather's compacts. Didn't feel good in the hand.