cva muzzleloader advice please

[DMTJAGER]

I have an Optima v2 and one of my hunting buddies has the accura. My gun took 4 shots to zero and his will not put 3 shots on a paper plate at any distance further than I can pee. He has spent at least the cost of the rifle trying different load and bullet combos and has yet to find a setup that will work. That is the only accura I have been around and like everything else , sometimes you just catch a lemon but his is bad.

My apologies if anything I say has already been stated as I didn't take the time to read all the replies.
I do not know if this qualifies me as an inline ML expert ( I don't believe it does) but I own four. One blued-walnut T/C Encore 209x50cal magnum ML bought first year they came out back in the mid 1990's, and two Knight Elite's (just couldn't pass on the price for them) one in 45cal one in 50cal both stainless with laminated stocks and my pride and joy my 10ML-II smokeless in line ML stainless steel laminate.

I am an absolute accuracy addicted shooter and I never stop trying to find the most consistently accurate loading for all my inline ML's.
I have shot literally every ML appropriate bullet out there and every sabot out there and used Pyrodex, Hodgdon 777 and BH-209. Tried every 209 primer sold. I know and have used 90%+ of every ML accuracy enhancing trick or mod known or I could find I felt was worth trying. Must have figured a few things out as I do not own a inline ML someone at a range with me didn't try and at times try very hard to buy from me.

Between those four inlines I have fired well over 5,000 loadings. 99.9% all were using saboted projectiles. Fired well over 2500 loadings out of my Encore alone. Another 2,000+ out of my 10ML-II. Oddly enough both my older Knight Elites (both have the conversion kit that eliminates the red Knight primer jacket) shot lights out phenomenally accurate with every sabot bullet combo I fired out of them. Truth be known both Knights were my last inline ML purchases (bought both used for my sons to hunt with) and had they been my first I seriously doubt I would've bought any other inline ML's other than a Knight Elite they both shot so unbelievably well with the first shots fired. Kinda painful to accept my $275-$300/ea Knight Elites not only shoot as well as my other inlines that cost 2-2.5xs as much they did so with everything I loaded in them.

Never had any accuracy issues like you described with any of my inline ML's and my 10ML-II can launch a projectile at 2400-2800 FPS/MV. I also own over a dozen high powered rifles, all of which I reload for and none ever gave me any serious issues with accuracy let alone anywhere near as severe as you describe. I own two 22lr rifles that are purposefully designed for ARA bench rest competitive shooting both are laser accurate. All these rifles are and remain 100% plane-jane factory mass produced rifles.

I have helped friends diagnose similar issues with their bolt action rifles and one inline a Encore 209x50 like mine. The BA rifles all but one were scope or scope mounting issues. The 209x50 was a miss-alignment between the QLA portion of the rifle bore and the remaining barrel.
The one BA rifle the issue was when the factory painted the webbing on his synthetic stock the paint built up on the area of where the stock made contact with his receiver bolt areas and imparted confliction torsional forces on his receiver. Once we scraped away the extra built up paint the rifle shot very well.
And I now remove all my barreled actions from the stock of every rifle I buy to confirm there are no fitment issues between the barreled action and stock.

I currently own two CVA Cascades in 450BM and my friend has loaned me his CVA Scout also in 450BM for my left handed son (don't like the Ruger RAR in 450BM and its the ONLY LH bolt gun available in 450BM) to try if he likes it I will buy him one. All are sub MOA rifles with my handloads.

In my opinion before he sends it back to CVA, I would try a different known to hold zero scope from a equally hard recoiling rifle. If the rifle still performs as badly with a known good scope than I would send it back to CVA.
Prior to sending it back absolutely he must contact CVA's CS department explain the situation and asked them for return instructions and include a detailed typed explanation describing his problem and even include 3 or 4 targets to give the techs at CVA an idea what his accuracy problems look like.

Please let us know how this works out.

Forgot to add.
Has your friend tried a new breach plug by chance?
And has he given the bore a absolute cleaning? Plastic sabot residue can and does build up in the barrel and can affect accuracy. I use a smaller nylon bore brush wrapped in 100% copper Chore-Boy saturated in acetone to remove plastic fouling from my inlines barrels. Just make sure if he does so he uses Core-Boys advertised as made from 100% copper as they also make them out of stainless steel.

 

[BTaylor]

My apologies if anything I say has already been stated as I didn't take the time to read all the replies.
I do not know if this qualifies me as an inline ML expert ( I don't believe it does) but I own four. One blued-walnut T/C Encore 209x50cal magnum ML bought first year they came out back in the mid 1990's, and two Knight Elite's (just couldn't pass on the price for them) one in 45cal one in 50cal both stainless with laminated stocks and my pride and joy my 10ML-II smokeless in line ML stainless steel laminate.

I am an absolute accuracy addicted shooter and I never stop trying to find the most consistently accurate loading for all my inline ML's.
I have shot literally every ML appropriate bullet out there and every sabot out there and used Pyrodex, Hodgdon 777 and BH-209. Tried every 209 primer sold. I know and have used 90%+ of every ML accuracy enhancing trick or mod known or I could find I felt was worth trying. Must have figured a few things out as I do not own a inline ML someone at a range with me didn't try and at times try very hard to buy from me.

Between those four inlines I have fired well over 5,000 loadings. 99.9% all were using saboted projectiles. Fired well over 2500 loadings out of my Encore alone. Another 2,000+ out of my 10ML-II. Oddly enough both my older Knight Elites (both have the conversion kit that eliminates the red Knight primer jacket) shot lights out phenomenally accurate with every sabot bullet combo I fired out of them. Truth be known both Knights were my last inline ML purchases (bought both used for my sons to hunt with) and had they been my first I seriously doubt I would've bought any other inline ML's other than a Knight Elite they both shot so unbelievably well with the first shots fired. Kinda painful to accept my $275-$300/ea Knight Elites not only shoot as well as my other inlines that cost 2-2.5xs as much they did so with everything I loaded in them.

Never had any accuracy issues like you described with any of my inline ML's and my 10ML-II can launch a projectile at 2400-2800 FPS/MV. I also own over a dozen high powered rifles, all of which I reload for and none ever gave me any serious issues with accuracy let alone anywhere near as severe as you describe. I own two 22lr rifles that are purposefully designed for ARA bench rest competitive shooting both are laser accurate. All these rifles are and remain 100% plane-jane factory mass produced rifles.

I have helped friends diagnose similar issues with their bolt action rifles and one inline a Encore 209x50 like mine. The BA rifles all but one were scope or scope mounting issues. The 209x50 was a miss-alignment between the QLA portion of the rifle bore and the remaining barrel.
The one BA rifle the issue was when the factory painted the webbing on his synthetic stock the paint built up on the area of where the stock made contact with his receiver bolt areas and imparted confliction torsional forces on his receiver. Once we scraped away the extra built up paint the rifle shot very well.
And I now remove all my barreled actions from the stock of every rifle I buy to confirm there are no fitment issues between the barreled action and stock.

I currently own two CVA Cascades in 450BM and my friend has loaned me his CVA Scout also in 450BM for my left handed son (don't like the Ruger RAR in 450BM and its the ONLY LH bolt gun available in 450BM) to try if he likes it I will buy him one. All are sub MOA rifles with my handloads.

In my opinion before he sends it back to CVA, I would try a different known to hold zero scope from a equally hard recoiling rifle. If the rifle still performs as badly with a known good scope than I would send it back to CVA.
Prior to sending it back absolutely he must contact CVA's CS department explain the situation and asked them for return instructions and include a detailed typed explanation describing his problem and even include 3 or 4 targets to give the techs at CVA an idea what his accuracy problems look like.

Please let us know how this works out.

Forgot to add.
Has your friend tried a new breach plug by chance?
And has he given the bore a absolute cleaning? Plastic sabot residue can and does build up in the barrel and can affect accuracy. I use a smaller nylon bore brush wrapped in 100% copper Chore-Boy saturated in acetone to remove plastic fouling from my inlines barrels. Just make sure if he does so he uses Core-Boys advertised as made from 100% copper as they also make them out of stainless steel.

We talked about his gun this weekend. He confirmed, almost regardless of load combo it would put one in the x and the next 2 or 3 may be anywhere from 6" to a foot off with no consistency with where those shots land. He said most of the time the first shot after a full cleaning would be good but not always. I told him about the recommendations to call CVA.

 

[Loopwing]

That almost sounds like he is not seating the powder and bullet the same way every time. Next time you sear the first shot, put a band of tape around the ramrod. If you are not going the same depth Everytime this will cause the "flyer". It could be a carbon, it could be adrenaline, but the heat of one shot should not throw the harmonics off of the barrel that much. If most of the time you hit X with a cold bore, I would go to the loading procedure first.

 

[Tapeworm]

That almost sounds like he is not seating the powder and bullet the same way every time. Next time you sear the first shot, put a band of tape around the ramrod. If you are not going the same depth Everytime this will cause the "flyer". It could be a carbon, it could be adrenaline, but the heat of one shot should not throw the harmonics off of the barrel that much. If most of the time you hit X with a cold bore, I would go to the loading procedure first.

Good idea

Carbon ring gets me with my old knight in line. It shoots great but has a tight barrel. The older knights were a few thousandths tighter. It’ll shoot close to cloverleaf 3 shots at 200 yds if I wet swab it after every shot to eliminate the carbon ring. If I don’t wet swab, I can’t fully seat the second shot will have fliers.

I have tape on my rod to show proper seating depth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BTaylor]

That almost sounds like he is not seating the powder and bullet the same way every time. Next time you sear the first shot, put a band of tape around the ramrod. If you are not going the same depth Everytime this will cause the "flyer". It could be a carbon, it could be adrenaline, but the heat of one shot should not throw the harmonics off of the barrel that much. If most of the time you hit X with a cold bore, I would go to the loading procedure first.

Ramrod is marked.

 

[Loopwing]

That is crazy. Sometimes even the best make a lemon. I would send it back to CVA and start over again.
I had to do it with an old H&R knock off Muzzleloader. I took my gunnery Sargent neighbor with me to the range after I couldn't figure it. After 10 shots, thorough cleaning, cool down times.... he handed the gun back to me, told me it was a POS and to get a real gun. It was the worst shooting gun he had ever held. I went and bought a CVA Optima with the interchangeable barrels.

 

[kbetts]

My buddy bought a used CVA last year for $100. Cleaned it up and had it Cercoted. Turned out beautiful. It's a tack driver.

 

[philsanchez76]

Someone already touched on it, but ill say just get a smokeless MZ. You said you already like your Scout in 44. Just buy a scout in 45-70 and send the barrel off to get drill for a breach plug. I took a doe at 270 yards last year with my Scout. ive never even made a shot like that with my 308. And did I mention NO CLEANING! yessir put it away dirty and shell just shoot even better.

 

[justwcc]

Someone already touched on it, but ill say just get a smokeless MZ. You said you already like your Scout in 44. Just buy a scout in 45-70 and send the barrel off to get drill for a breach plug. I took a doe at 270 yards last year with my Scout. ive never even made a shot like that with my 308. And did I mention NO CLEANING! yessir put it away dirty and shell just shoot even better.

I would love to convert and shoot smokeless as I already reload. Only problem is that smokeless powder guns do not qualify for use during FL primitive weapon season.

 

[BowhunterXC]

I need some advice. I am looking to purchase a new muzzleloader this year to replace my TC omega. I have decided on either the CVA optima V2/V2 LR or the CVA Accura MRX in 50 cal. I know I like this action as I have a Scout in 44 mag and I love the way it operates. If anyone has hands on experience with either/both of these rifles I would love to know if the Accura MRX is worth the extra money or is there not enough real world difference to justify it over the Optima V2. Thanks.

I owned a CVA many years ago and it was an accurate ML....but, you had to use Power Belt bullets. CVA and Power Belt were in cahoots together and my rifle wouldn't shoot anything else, accurately.
That has changed, since Bergara purchased CVA, a few years ago....which is a good thing. I have the CVA V2 LR and shoot Hornady XTP 250 gr. bullets out of it with extremely good accuracy. I use 2 of the White Hots pellets and it's easy to clean, accurate and a simple loading process.
I don't know anything about the MRX, but going off of the replies on this post, I'd say it's a good one. Good luck with your choices!