Does and Fawns

[Nutterbuster]

No one said don’t shoot fawns and I don’t have to have rationale for an opinion. I should probably have rationale for an argument though. People simply responded with whether or not they would shoot fawns. I don’t shoot fawns and I think shooting fawns is lame. If you want to shoot fawns then I’ll probably just think that you’re being lame. If I know you I’ll probably tell you that I think shooting fawns is lame, but I’m not going to tell you what to do.

If one is to assume that biologists have done their work And know what their talking abojt then yes I agree if they say the herds can withstand it then go for It. I am surprised you would say this though when you know how corrupt Aldcnr is.

Also there are different definitions of a sport. Finding no sport in something means that you don’t find it amusing. Just like I don’t find it amusing to blast spotted fawns with a crossbow. Secondly, sportsmanship. Everyone will have their own definition for this but here’s a general one we can apply. I could see an argument being made against hunting being fair and generous to the animals being hunted but that doesn’t preclude hunters from acting fair and generous to their game in different ways I.e. showing sportsmanship, being a sportsmanView attachment 37998

that said there is a whole separate argument surrounding whether or not hunting and fishing a sport! So who knows.

Good points.

I'm fine with folks having an opinion. My own dad thinks fawn-killing is "lame" and has let me know there will be no baby-killing on our lease. I can live with that to keep the peace and don't think less of him for his viewpoint on that or the many other things we disagree on. But, I ultimately think casting judgment on what folks do or do not shoot is silly.

Alabama DCNR is quite corrupt, as is the rest of its governing body. But, is there money to be made or another selfish gain to be obtained by legalizing fawn harvest? Not that I can see. So, when self-interest isn't a factor, I trust a trained biologist to biology gooder than most rednecks.

As far as sportsmanship, I staunchly maintain that nothing is fair and generous about an arrow in the lung of an animal who cannot comprehend projectiles.

Wait

Wait....Predator is fake?

He's quite real, and he lives inside you and me and everybody else in this forum. A monster who kills not for sustenance, but for the thrill and prestige in his barbarous society.

 

[Weldabeast]

Welcome to chimpanzees with the ability to split the atom!

I identify as a vanilla gorilla and go by the pronouns hir, him, and xe

 

[gcr0003]

I identify as a vanilla gorilla and go by the pronouns hir, him, and xe

Your profile pic just rolled over in it’s grave

 

[Weldabeast]

Your profile pic just rolled over in it’s grave

Maybe time for a change? I got another 1.thats pretty sweet that I found

 

[Nutterbuster]

Your profile pic just rolled over in it’s grave

The Duke is another feller i disagree with on some points, but enjoy the heck out of.

I didn't post that widdle 30 spot buck on fecesbook or googtube because I knew it'd result in a shouting match between folks who can't be bothered to form a complete thought or consider questioning their biases, but I have enjoyed the discussion on this thread. I have respect for folks who can civilly but passionately and firmly disagree. This group is usually pretty good about that.

 

[TNSTAAFL]

I’m not targeting spotted fawns but shot a healthy lone doe doe Saturday morning, her yearling didn’t show up for another full minute after I was reloaded & harvested her as well.

Congrats on the double up!

How heavy was the smaller deer? The pic is hard to tell but I would have called that a fawn that had lost its spots. Maybe your doe is so big it makes the other deer seem smaller than it is.

Perhaps I don't have a good feel for what age/labels we give to deer. I am still pretty new at this. Maybe we should start an "age/describe this deer thread" for people to post pics and help us newbs learn.

 

[TNSTAAFL]

Are these descriptions accurate:

Fawn = 0.5 year old
Yearling = 1.5 year old
Adult = 2.5 year old
"Mature deer" = 4.5 year old

If these are accurate, can yearling does have fawns?

 

[gcr0003]

Maybe time for a change? I got another 1.thats pretty sweet that I found

Yea but it should just be that one of you where you shot that doe in the timber pimp clothing with the x_x eyes over your face haha.

 

[OspreyZB]

Are these descriptions accurate:

Fawn = 0.5 year old
Yearling = 1.5 year old
Adult = 2.5 year old
"Mature deer" = 4.5 year old

If these are accurate, can yearling does have fawns?

Yes, some doe fawns even get pregnant their first fall at 6-8 months.

 

[Weldabeast]

Yea but it should just be that one of you where you shot that doe in the timber pimp clothing with the x_x eyes over your face haha.

This other 1 I found is way better

 

[kyler1945]

Congrats on the double up!

How heavy was the smaller deer? The pic is hard to tell but I would have called that a fawn that had lost its spots. Maybe your doe is so big it makes the other deer seem smaller than it is.

Perhaps I don't have a good feel for what age/labels we give to deer. I am still pretty new at this. Maybe we should start an "age/describe this deer thread" for people to post pics and help us newbs learn.

your description of age classes is fine. I think the one exception is that technically any Deer from .5-1.5yo is a yearling.

another nugget there is a .5yo will double in size from October to October down here - going from 40ishlbs to 80-90lbs. If you take that 90lb deer and place it next to an old healthy doe, that might go 150lbs, you’d see the difference. But next to every other doe in the herd it would be difficult to tell size difference at a distance. And alone, very difficult.

for the above reasons, I guess I’ve always thought of “yearlings” as anything born in the year I’m hunting. Telling a 1.5yo doe from a 2.5 yo doe is next to impossible, not that I’d ever really care. And I don’t care how old bucks are, I care about whether their headgear is legal, or what I’m looking for.

 

[Bigterp]

Congrats on the double up!

How heavy was the smaller deer? The pic is hard to tell but I would have called that a fawn that had lost its spots. Maybe your doe is so big it makes the other deer seem smaller than it is.

Perhaps I don't have a good feel for what age/labels we give to deer. I am still pretty new at this. Maybe we should start an "age/describe this deer thread" for people to post pics and help us newbs learn.

The mature doe was pretty big got this area, almost 166lbs, the small one I didn’t weigh, probably 75-80lbs.

 

[TNSTAAFL]

Personally, I wouldn't take a fawn or a doe with a fawn. The former is too little meat to be worth the hassle for me. I'm not looking to make a fawn starve to death with the latter.
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I respect your position and personal choice to do as you see fit. A couple observations that are not meant to be argumentative, just food for thought:

1) I was surprised by how much meat came back from my butcher on my 57 lb doe fawn this year. Way more than I would have guessed. The 73 button buck yielded even more. Between the two my freezer has as much or more as when I've harvested 115ish lb does in the past.

2) I'm not sure why a fawn would starve to death if it lost its mother. Are they milking still at this point? I've never seen one feed from mom during hunting season. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen but I've seen lots of groups and never witnessed this behavior during hunting season. All fawns I see are browsing vegetation, especially my clover. You'd think in the evening they'd be so hungry from a day of bedding that their first move would be to lactate, if that is still a part of their nutritional needs.

Granted, a fawn without adult guidance might struggle to find food in some situations, or more likely run in front of a car or fall to predators, but I doubt they will slowly starve to death. I might be wrong. I'm curious if people know details about the fawn/mother nutrition timeline.

 

[TNSTAAFL]

Age my deer:

2014 Doe #1 112 lbs field dressed. I presumed she was a 1.5 year old.

December hunt up north and she was in a yarded group of 7 that included a huge doe (she spooked on me!) and smaller deer that I presumed were that year's fawns (no spots).

 

[sweats]

I respect your position and personal choice to do as you see fit. A couple observations that are not meant to be argumentative, just food for thought:

1) I was surprised by how much meat came back from my butcher on my 57 lb doe fawn this year. Way more than I would have guessed. The 73 button buck yielded even more. Between the two my freezer has as much or more as when I've harvested 115ish lb does in the past.

2) I'm not sure why a fawn would starve to death if it lost its mother. Are they milking still at this point? I've never seen one feed from mom during hunting season. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen but I've seen lots of groups and never witnessed this behavior during hunting season. All fawns I see are browsing vegetation, especially my clover. You'd think in the evening they'd be so hungry from a day of bedding that their first move would be to lactate, if that is still a part of their nutritional needs.

Granted, a fawn without adult guidance might struggle to find food in some situations, or more likely run in front of a car or fall to predators, but I doubt they will slowly starve to death. I might be wrong. I'm curious if people know details about the fawn/mother nutrition timeline.

For the purposes of this discussion, perhaps we should clarify what is meant by "fawn".



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[TNSTAAFL]

Age my deer:

2016 #2 115 lbs field dressed. Seemed bigger than previous #1, but the weight was similar. She did sit out all night due to the poor gut shot. Dog found her the next morning. Maybe that cost some dehydration weight. I would have thought 2.5 year old but weight made me think 1.5

It was October and she had a non-spotted fawn with her (which bleated a few times after shot). Would she have a fawn at 1.5? Seems like some say yes. Or maybe she adopted it after real mom perished. Dunno.

 

[TNSTAAFL]

For the purposes of this discussion, perhaps we should clarify what is meant by "fawn".



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Definitely. This is why I was asking about age classes and descriptions. I suspect that there is considerable variation, both in hunter aging/description, and in regional fawn development during hunting seasons.

 

[kyler1945]

Age my deer:

2016 #2 115 lbs field dressed. Seemed bigger than previous #1, but the weight was similar. She did sit out all night due to the poor gut shot. Dog found her the next morning. Maybe that cost some dehydration weight. I would have thought 2.5 year old but weight made me think 1.5

It was October and she had a non-spotted fawn with her (which bleated a few times after shot). Would she have a fawn at 1.5? Seems like some say yes. Or maybe she adopted it after real mom perished. Dunno.

yearlings(.5yo deer) can and do get bred here. It usually occurs in areas where the rut happens in December-January

 

[Patriot]

I’m not above taking does but I have passed 3 times now on does with fawns. Older fawns but still fawns. I’m a weird hunter, I battle guilt. I don’t judge anyone on their hunting motivations so I hope folks don’t judge me. I harvest deer and I harvest does, but every time I do I feel guilt. I love this sport and I love it for the challenge. Deer density sucks in my State but I still let lots of deer walk.

Sometimes I wish I had less of a conscious about this stuff. But I am who I am. I have noticed my goals have a lot to do with it. If my personal class of buck comes out that meets my goals I’m dialed in and I will get the job done with zero hesitation.

But if it’s an animal that doesn’t meet my goal and it’s just about meat in my freezer then I take a temperature of my feelings about this animal, how good a shot is it, will it be a swift and high probability kill, is the weather good for tracking, does she have fawns, do I feel like killing today?

Then I decide.

 

[kyler1945]

Are these descriptions accurate:

Fawn = 0.5 year old
Yearling = 1.5 year old
Adult = 2.5 year old
"Mature deer" = 4.5 year old

If these are accurate, can yearling does have fawns?

fawn: 0 days old, to .5 years old.
Yearling: .5 years old to 1.5 years old.
Adult deer: 1.5years old +
Mature deer: fiction created by hunters with access to prime habitat, high deer density, and low Hunter Density, to separate Themselves from the common folk.