Ever used string trackers?

[NMSbowhunter]

We collectively are probably recovering 50% or less, that’s hundreds of thousands, probably millions each season.

There is no "we". I am only responsible for what I do. You may be batting 50% but I personally am at 90% and that is the past 12 years, 40+ deer. Early on I wounded some because I didn't know better than to shoot at them beyond my range capabilities and didn't know about better arrow systems that take a lot of the chance out of getting to the vitals. The past 4 years my shot range on deer has been 16 yards and in. One I got at 6 yards. I don't shoot past 25 yards now, and that is max. I wait for good presentations, and I shoot a structurally sound arrow with a hair popping sharp broadhead.

 

[woodsdog2]

How about this...

I want one!!!

 

[DroptineKrazy]

We collectively are probably recovering 50% or less, that’s hundreds of thousands, probably millions each season.

50%? In my opinion if your 50% on recoveries you should be playing golf instead. 45 years bow hunting and I can only honestly remember 2 maybe 3 deer that I hit and didn't recover. That's out of maybe a 100 or so deer. Not counting misses.

 

[woodsdog2]

I’ve never used a string tracker personally. I would have never thought of the need for one with deer but there may have been some utility for them in the gobbler woods. Nowadays with either the decapitation style heads or the mechanicals with proper above legs shot placement on turkeys, they’re even irrelevant now for them too IMO. I think some trad guys are using them though as they shoot fixed heads and heavy arrows so it tends to punch right through a gobbler. I could see the utility of a tracker for those setups perhaps.

 

[woodsdog2]

50%? In my opinion if your 50% on recoveries you should be playing golf instead. 45 years bow hunting and I can only honestly remember 2 maybe 3 deer that I hit and didn't recover. That's out of maybe a 100 or so deer. Not counting misses.

I think he’s talking overall numbers but I don’t think recovery loss is 50% overall. My hunch is around 1/5.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I think he’s talking overall numbers but I don’t think recovery loss is 50% overall. My hunch is around 1/5.

It's probably 80% overall, somewhere in that ballpark and from what I have personally seen on that club I was in rifle recoveries were probably in that 75% range. Lots of those dudes shot deer with rifles and if the deer didn't drop on the logging road and made it into the cutover they left it.

 

[Loopwing]

That is so true and so sad. I have hunted with a bunch of dudes that is the deer didn't drop in it's tracks, "I must have missed". I can't tell you number of deer I personally recovered for these dumba$$3$ just from walking to the place they shot the deer. Blood everywhere and the deer were less that 60 yards. Those guys were ready to jump and the truck and do it all again next weekend.
The community (saddle inspired) we are a part of is a little more ethical than most, but we still have guys flinging arrows and bullets with the hopes of "I hit him".
Nationwide a 50% recovery is probably right. You ever been in the woods when they are running dogs on the opener of gun season. Go back a week later and check out all the vultures.

Also, finding antlers a week later doesn't count as a recovery.

 

[neonomad]

I think he’s talking overall numbers but I don’t think recovery loss is 50% overall. My hunch is around 1/5.

Yes I’m not referring to my own performance, odds are folks on this site are better performing. Rates found in studies vary, but they’re still pretty high. @NMSbowhunter back to your original comment, my point is just that wound losses and injured deer is far from the exception, or a trivial number. https://www.deerfriendly.com/deer-population-control/archery-wounding-rates

 

[Equinox631]

Shot a couple of deer with one in the 90’s worked well.
It worked great as a throw line for a dangerous tree.

 

[BTaylor]

Yes I’m not referring to my own performance, odds are folks on this site are better performing. Rates found in studies vary, but they’re still pretty high. @NMSbowhunter back to your original comment, my point is just that wound losses and injured deer is far from the exception, or a trivial number. https://www.deerfriendly.com/deer-population-control/archery-wounding-rates

What about comparative studies with gun and ML? I dont expect you will find even somewhat remotely accurate information for them because folks just fling shots and if the deer doesnt drop they may not even look to see if there is evidence of a hit. Bowhunters know more accurately because the shots are much closer and they are going to go find the arrow which will tell if there was a hit or not. Add in the shear number of gun hunters compared to bowhunters and there is no way conceivable that gun hunters dont wound more deer. Bottom line is if your wound rate is much over 10%, regardless of weapon, there is a problem and it aint the weapon.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

True. If you want to see wound rates drop (we all do) then folks have to keep their own house in order. If you are over 10% you need to work on your performance.

I feel like the wound rate is much higher with gun, and crossbow for that matter (though crossbows do offer more theoretical accuracy than bows that is negated by marketing convincing people that shooting 120 yards is acceptable). I know a guy who is a prime example and claims he is good on deer to 120 yards with his crossbow.

I think a real issue is casual hunters. They don't spend much time at it, and it seems like the less time they can spend hunting the better they like it. They want to be where they can see a long way and fling some sort of projectile as far as humanly possible. The farther the better. They also tend to get overly excited and take marginal shots. It amazes me all the world class marksmen who could be on the Olympic marksman team. There are 5 or 6 in every deer club.

I remember an incident that occurred on our old club. A guy we didn't know too well, an out of state member, came back to camp and asked any of us available to help him find a monster buck he shot. We were available so we went out to help him look. He said he hit it good, and it should be dead. We asked for specifics, and he said it was 150 yards out but no problem since he had a 300 Magnum. We also found out the buck was trotting across a powerline easement. Ok, so we go to the hilltop 200 yards from where his stand was and nothing. Then he says maybe it as the next hill. The easement was a series of hills and valleys. The valleys were low enough you could not see into them from the stand, so we were sure whatever he shot at was on top of one of the hills. The next hill over was a good 300 yards from his stand. We get over there and there is a small amount of blood and no deer.

We convince him to back out and come back later and not push the buck. We get back to camp and some of his buddies are back and they agree to go with him a few hours later. We found out the next day that they went out and had no luck. I found out later from the club president that the monster buck had been a 4 point yearling that had its rear leg broken and lived. This dude was shooting at a moving deer at 300 yards and he could not see it well enough that he mistook a 4 point yearling for a monster buck.

These same guys would set up to shoot down the logging roads. At every turn in the road they had a little wood box they hobbled together, and they would sit in them and wait for something to dart across the lane. Then they would shoot at it. If it didn't drop that was a miss. I hunted the interiors of those pine thickets and would chop hidden trails in to the SMZ's. I found lots of deer skeletons just off the logging roads in the course of doing this.

These guys were all casual hunters. They didn't care a bit about learning anything about deer or their behavior or how to get close to them. They just wanted to run out, sit in a box and take pot shots. About 80% of the members were in this category.

A related note. I watched some of Dam Infalts videos about the deer drives. I can't imagine the number of woundings that go on when that is happening all over the countryside. This is not a criticism of Dan. It's an observation of drives. Here we have dog runners. There are a few contentious ones but most of the ones around here are pure outlaws. They run the dogs through private property and set up in the road and shoot them when they cross. These are public black top roads. The cops and game wardens do their best to catch them but it is a big area.

I overheard a conversation a few years ago that went like this. Dogrunner: "Them boys done killed 9 deer this morning" Other guy: "What kind of deer were they?" Dogrunner: "Hell, they was deer!". Other guy: "where did they kill them?" Dogrunner: "Middle of the black top road!"

These guys sure aren't following up anything they shoot and wound". For one they have to haul A$$ as soon as they shoot since it is illegal, and they would be trespassing if they went into the woods anyway.

 

[BTaylor]

I overheard a conversation a few years ago that went like this. Dogrunner: "Them boys done killed 9 deer this morning" Other guy: "What kind of deer were they?" Dogrunner: "Hell, they was deer!". Other guy: "where did they kill them?" Dogrunner: "Middle of the black top road!"

These guys sure aren't following up anything they shoot and wound". For one they have to haul A$$ as soon as they shoot since it is illegal, and they would be trespassing if they went into the woods anyway.

They should use bows, wouldnt make so much noise.

 

[neonomad]

@NMSbowhunter @BTaylor yeah weapons of increasing power and accuracy have the potential for much better kill rates, but then we make sure that doesn’t happen by adding more range and circumstances that we’re willing to shoot with them. I did just pick up a crossbow to start playing with, but I’m not thinking of it as a 60 yard machine.

6 million whitetails are harvested annually, if we assume there’s a 25% non-recovered rate between all weapons (dial this up or down as you see fit) that puts us at 2 million deer not recovered. If we gave each of these deer a 20’ x 20’ patch of ground to die or suffer in, that’s 2M x 400 square feet = 800M square feet… so you could take a walk through 18,000 acres where every 20’x20’ patch has a dead or suffering deer in it.

Ten years ago I was hunting with a buddy and I bumped my target buck to him, was the third best deer we ever had on our land and probably the best looking overall, was kind of a legend. He put a bad shotgun shot on him at 30 yards and we never found the deer, I’m still sick about it. We checked his gun and it was nowhere near sighted in… hard lesson learned for me about trying to dot all Is and cross all Ts, not just for me but anybody I invite as well.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

They should use bows, wouldnt make so much noise.

Some of them probably got crossbows....

 

[BTaylor]

@NMSbowhunter @BTaylor yeah weapons of increasing power and accuracy have the potential for much better kill rates, but then we make sure that doesn’t happen by adding more range and circumstances that we’re willing to shoot with them. I did just pick up a crossbow to start playing with, but I’m not thinking of it as a 60 yard machine.

6 million whitetails are harvested annually, if we assume there’s a 25% non-recovered rate between all weapons (dial this up or down as you see fit) that puts us at 2 million deer not recovered. If we gave each of these deer a 20’ x 20’ patch of ground to die or suffer in, that’s 2M x 400 square feet = 800M square feet… so you could take a walk through 18,000 acres where every 20’x20’ patch has a dead or suffering deer in it.

Ten years ago I was hunting with a buddy and I bumped my target buck to him, was the third best deer we ever had on our land and probably the best looking overall, was kind of a legend. He put a bad shotgun shot on him at 30 yards and we never found the deer, I’m still sick about it. We checked his gun and it was nowhere near sighted in… hard lesson learned for me about trying to dot all Is and cross all Ts, not just for me but anybody I invite as well.

I would be curious to see a comparison of recovery rate from immediately non-lethal hits from bow vs. gun. What is the difference in survivability of a cut vs. hydrostatic trauma. I have killed deer with buckshot in them and ML sabots in them so I know they can survive those shots. I dont recall ever killing one with a rifle bullet in it.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

@NMSbowhunter @BTaylor yeah weapons of increasing power and accuracy have the potential for much better kill rates, but then we make sure that doesn’t happen by adding more range and circumstances that we’re willing to shoot with them. I did just pick up a crossbow to start playing with, but I’m not thinking of it as a 60 yard machine.

6 million whitetails are harvested annually, if we assume there’s a 25% non-recovered rate between all weapons (dial this up or down as you see fit) that puts us at 2 million deer not recovered. If we gave each of these deer a 20’ x 20’ patch of ground to die or suffer in, that’s 2M x 400 square feet = 800M square feet… so you could take a walk through 18,000 acres where every 20’x20’ patch has a dead or suffering deer in it.

Ten years ago I was hunting with a buddy and I bumped my target buck to him, was the third best deer we ever had on our land and probably the best looking overall, was kind of a legend. He put a bad shotgun shot on him at 30 yards and we never found the deer, I’m still sick about it. We checked his gun and it was nowhere near sighted in… hard lesson learned for me about trying to dot all Is and cross all Ts, not just for me but anybody I invite as well.

Your square foot of pain calculus sounds impressive until you realize there are 2,429,914,880 acres in the US. Somewhere shy of 2 point five billion acres. There are 43, 560 square feet per acre. I don't even want to do the math on that figure. 18,000 out of 2.43 billion is a pretty small number.

Also, what is lumped together as "wound loss" runs the full gamut of injuries, many of which are non-life threatening.

I wonder how many deer are wounded by automobiles during the same time frame each year?

The bottom line is people need to be responsible for their own actions. I think we both agree on that.

 

[NMSbowhunter]

I would be curious to see a comparison of recovery rate from immediately non-lethal hits from bow vs. gun. What is the difference in survivability of a cut vs. hydrostatic trauma. I have killed deer with buckshot in them and ML sabots in them so I know they can survive those shots. I dont recall ever killing one with a rifle bullet in it.

That would be an interesting bit of data. Of the gun shot deer I have examined both from personal hunting and the deer of friends, I have never recovered a rifle bullet from any deer. I think it takes a pretty substantial deer to stop a rifle bullet. Our little deer don't offer much resistance. I have though that one reason we may have some rifle losses is that the bullet is not opening when it hits them. It may just be penciling its way through not doing much damage, Soft lead core bullets open fast. I sort of think some of the hard all copper ones made for deep penetration might not be opening soon enough on small deer. I have not gun hunted in quite a while, so it is sort of out of my wheelhouse these days.

 

[elk yinzer]

String tracker? Here's a more modern version of go-go gadgetry. No experience, no interest, certainly not endorsing it by any means. But it's out there. https://pro-tracker.com/product/pro-tracker-recovery-system/

I've read a few studies that put wounding loss rates pretty high. I believe it. Imo a plurality if not a majority of new and more casual hunters shoot at deer they have no business shooting at, suffer badly from buck fever, don't practice enough with their weapons, don't tune their bows, don't sharpen their broadheads, don't properly follow up, don't wait long enough before tracking, shoot deer near property lines they can't cross, the list goes on and on. It's not an easy thing to just pick up, some mistakes along the way are to be expected. I know I made my fair share and I'm sure I have some still in store, but I am far better now than I used to be.

 

[GCTerpfan]

String tracker? Here's a more modern version of go-go gadgetry. No experience, no interest, certainly not endorsing it by any means. But it's out there. https://pro-tracker.com/product/pro-tracker-recovery-system/

I've read a few studies that put wounding loss rates pretty high. I believe it. Imo a plurality if not a majority of new and more casual hunters shoot at deer they have no business shooting at, suffer badly from buck fever, don't practice enough with their weapons, don't tune their bows, don't sharpen their broadheads, don't properly follow up, don't wait long enough before tracking, shoot deer near property lines they can't cross, the list goes on and on. It's not an easy thing to just pick up, some mistakes along the way are to be expected. I know I made my fair share and I'm sure I have some still in store, but I am far better now than I used to be.

This exact idea was my son’s science fair project close to ten years ago. Him and his buddy built a working version very similar to this.