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Evolution of the ultralight stands

It's interesting see some people, including me, coming full circle back to climbers. I just want to be comfortable and be able to get 20+ feet without dealing with multiple sticks, and no I'm not one sticking or doing any stuff adapted from rock climbing. I don't want to deal with a bunch of ropes and pouches. Just the climber, harness, and weapon. A Summit type stand that is lighter and packs better would be money.[/QUOTE]

Im now in the same boat. This morning was the second missed opportunity to put more meat in the freezer in 3 hunts. Doe came in weak side and there I was stuck in the JX3 trying to figure out how to shoot her while trying not to make noise with the LWHC that kept wanting to fall down the tree and eventually did. The other day it was the cam cleat hawk helium wanting to kick out trying to shoot 360. I went from hiking in with a heavier summit climber that packs solid with nice molle backpack mod for a little rougher hike in but having it be a breeze to climb a tree in 10-15 minutes to now Im not sure how much weight savings with jx3, a wacky climbing method (1-stick,sticks +platform,or lwhc), climbing method tether to me, with dangling climbing aider straps, 2 saddle tethers (1 for rappel, safeguard, triangle, stopper knot) gear hanger rope, rappel retrieve line, pouches hanging, and takes me 30+ pita minutes to climb any tree (look for limbless tree now anyway for ease). My most efficient saddle set up was 3 hawk sticks and platform but couldnt get comfortable in soft saddle (tried Mantis XL, Original Flex, rhc+fleece all back killers for days after hunt). I thought about going back to 3 sticks+ platform with jx3 but might as well carry my summit climber due to negligible weight savings + less freakin pieces to the set up puzzle.
With all that whining being done, im so stubborn I just spent even more dang money to try ROS/climbing steps. If that doesnt work, im selling it all so help me… alright time to go remove the sand.




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Only reason I don't use my summit more is the size and weight....past that such a awesome stand. I also have a Lone Wolf sit and climb I just got and that's way nicer to pack but not as comfortable as the summit but still more so than a saddle. I just grabbed a Dryad Drey to try. Either way my JX3 will be sold as I just don't like the fit for me. Although it is as comfortable as the summit basically.
 
I am not surprised to see people going back to hang ons and climbers. I've been saying all along this whole saddle boom was going to bust. Saddle hunting is just not for everyone. Our baseline number of saddle hunters is going have increased but it certainly isn't going to be enough to sustain the X number of saddle manufacturers that have popped up. At some point there is going to be something like 5 saddles available for every 1 saddle hunter out there.

I remember saying something similar a couple of years ago. Because most likely the average saddle hunter isn't going to have multiple saddles. The market is already kind of saturated IMO. I remember Tethrd being backed up for months this time of year. You can go on their site now and most things are in stock and shipping. I know that also has to do with them increasing production. But even some of the smaller companies only have a 1-2 week lead times.
It's interesting see some people, including me, coming full circle back to climbers. I just want to be comfortable and be able to get 20+ feet without dealing with multiple sticks, and no I'm not one sticking or doing any stuff adapted from rock climbing. I don't want to deal with a bunch of ropes and pouches. Just the climber, harness, and weapon. A Summit type stand that is lighter and packs better would be money.

Im now in the same boat. This morning was the second missed opportunity to put more meat in the freezer in 3 hunts. Doe came in weak side and there I was stuck in the JX3 trying to figure out how to shoot her while trying not to make noise with the LWHC that kept wanting to fall down the tree and eventually did. The other day it was the cam cleat hawk helium wanting to kick out trying to shoot 360. I went from hiking in with a heavier summit climber that packs solid with nice molle backpack mod for a little rougher hike in but having it be a breeze to climb a tree in 10-15 minutes to now Im not sure how much weight savings with jx3, a wacky climbing method (1-stick,sticks +platform,or lwhc), climbing method tether to me, with dangling climbing aider straps, 2 saddle tethers (1 for rappel, safeguard, triangle, stopper knot) gear hanger rope, rappel retrieve line, pouches hanging, and takes me 30+ pita minutes to climb any tree (look for limbless tree now anyway for ease). My most efficient saddle set up was 3 hawk sticks and platform but couldnt get comfortable in soft saddle (tried Mantis XL, Original Flex, rhc+fleece all back killers for days after hunt). I thought about going back to 3 sticks+ platform with jx3 but might as well carry my summit climber due to negligible weight savings + less freakin pieces to the set up puzzle.
With all that whining being done, im so stubborn I just spent even more dang money to try ROS/climbing steps. If that doesnt work, im selling it all so help me… alright time to go remove the sand.

emoji4.png



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[/QUOTE]

I've been tempted by the JX3 and there is a guy selling on locally, which is kind of rare. I suspect because it would probably be an absurd shipping cost. But it looks like a mess of ropes and i'm still facing the tree with a tether in my face. I had the Mission with my H2 saddle and it was definitely solid but nearly as heavy as some of the newer hang ons and more awkward to carry with sticks. I'm not completely against saddle hunting. But it just seemed like a never ending rabbit hole of things to distract me from actually hunting and scouting. I can use my hang on or sit on the ground for now. But i'll keep tabs on a newer/lighter climber. Until then I just need to scout and kill some deer.
 
It's interesting see some people, including me, coming full circle back to climbers. I just want to be comfortable and be able to get 20+ feet without dealing with multiple sticks, and no I'm not one sticking or doing any stuff adapted from rock climbing. I don't want to deal with a bunch of ropes and pouches. Just the climber, harness, and weapon. A Summit type stand that is lighter and packs better would be money.

Im now in the same boat. This morning was the second missed opportunity to put more meat in the freezer in 3 hunts. Doe came in weak side and there I was stuck in the JX3 trying to figure out how to shoot her while trying not to make noise with the LWHC that kept wanting to fall down the tree and eventually did. The other day it was the cam cleat hawk helium wanting to kick out trying to shoot 360. I went from hiking in with a heavier summit climber that packs solid with nice molle backpack mod for a little rougher hike in but having it be a breeze to climb a tree in 10-15 minutes to now Im not sure how much weight savings with jx3, a wacky climbing method (1-stick,sticks +platform,or lwhc), climbing method tether to me, with dangling climbing aider straps, 2 saddle tethers (1 for rappel, safeguard, triangle, stopper knot) gear hanger rope, rappel retrieve line, pouches hanging, and takes me 30+ pita minutes to climb any tree (look for limbless tree now anyway for ease). My most efficient saddle set up was 3 hawk sticks and platform but couldnt get comfortable in soft saddle (tried Mantis XL, Original Flex, rhc+fleece all back killers for days after hunt). I thought about going back to 3 sticks+ platform with jx3 but might as well carry my summit climber due to negligible weight savings + less freakin pieces to the set up puzzle.
With all that whining being done, im so stubborn I just spent even more dang money to try ROS/climbing steps. If that doesnt work, im selling it all so help me… alright time to go remove the sand.




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[/QUOTE]
The ROS will solve your issues of getting around the tree for a 360 shot quietly for sure. Not even sure why anyone uses a platform. Im liking my wild edge steps and ROS at the top. 5-6 at most to be 20' to the ROS using Cain climbing method. Not nearly as hard as one sticking or carrying in a bundle of sticks.
 
I remember saying something similar a couple of years ago. Because most likely the average saddle hunter isn't going to have multiple saddles. The market is already kind of saturated IMO. I remember Tethrd being backed up for months this time of year. You can go on their site now and most things are in stock and shipping. I know that also has to do with them increasing production. But even some of the smaller companies only have a 1-2 week lead times.


Im now in the same boat. This morning was the second missed opportunity to put more meat in the freezer in 3 hunts. Doe came in weak side and there I was stuck in the JX3 trying to figure out how to shoot her while trying not to make noise with the LWHC that kept wanting to fall down the tree and eventually did. The other day it was the cam cleat hawk helium wanting to kick out trying to shoot 360. I went from hiking in with a heavier summit climber that packs solid with nice molle backpack mod for a little rougher hike in but having it be a breeze to climb a tree in 10-15 minutes to now Im not sure how much weight savings with jx3, a wacky climbing method (1-stick,sticks +platform,or lwhc), climbing method tether to me, with dangling climbing aider straps, 2 saddle tethers (1 for rappel, safeguard, triangle, stopper knot) gear hanger rope, rappel retrieve line, pouches hanging, and takes me 30+ pita minutes to climb any tree (look for limbless tree now anyway for ease). My most efficient saddle set up was 3 hawk sticks and platform but couldnt get comfortable in soft saddle (tried Mantis XL, Original Flex, rhc+fleece all back killers for days after hunt). I thought about going back to 3 sticks+ platform with jx3 but might as well carry my summit climber due to negligible weight savings + less freakin pieces to the set up puzzle.
With all that whining being done, im so stubborn I just spent even more dang money to try ROS/climbing steps. If that doesnt work, im selling it all so help me… alright time to go remove the sand.

emoji4.png



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I've been tempted by the JX3 and there is a guy selling on locally, which is kind of rare. I suspect because it would probably be an absurd shipping cost. But it looks like a mess of ropes and i'm still facing the tree with a tether in my face. I had the Mission with my H2 saddle and it was definitely solid but nearly as heavy as some of the newer hang ons and more awkward to carry with sticks. I'm not completely against saddle hunting. But it just seemed like a never ending rabbit hole of things to distract me from actually hunting and scouting. I can use my hang on or sit on the ground for now. But i'll keep tabs on a newer/lighter climber. Until then I just need to scout and kill some deer.[/QUOTE]

It is a mess of straps and ropes around the waist plus shoulder straps while hunting. Remove the shoulder straps while hunting, stand up and everything falls down. Leave them on and it gaums you up for shooting. It definitely has become a never ending rabbit hole for me. Hate to say it but, Saddle hunting has started to suck all the fun outta hunting for me all together. I keep buying more parts and pieces hoping that its the magic ticket to make “saddle hunting” easier and more comfortable and instead it is doing the opposite. My buddy that kills his two P&Y’s every year on public for youtube would literally be pissed off if he saw what it takes me to saddle set up in a tree using the various climbing methods I own. I have been making excuses not to hunt with him due to it. Not trying to put down the hobby as I am desperate at this point to make this work for all the time and money I have put into it but Man does this feel good to confess this. Haha


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I remember saying something similar a couple of years ago. Because most likely the average saddle hunter isn't going to have multiple saddles. The market is already kind of saturated IMO. I remember Tethrd being backed up for months this time of year. You can go on their site now and most things are in stock and shipping. I know that also has to do with them increasing production. But even some of the smaller companies only have a 1-2 week lead times.


Im now in the same boat. This morning was the second missed opportunity to put more meat in the freezer in 3 hunts. Doe came in weak side and there I was stuck in the JX3 trying to figure out how to shoot her while trying not to make noise with the LWHC that kept wanting to fall down the tree and eventually did. The other day it was the cam cleat hawk helium wanting to kick out trying to shoot 360. I went from hiking in with a heavier summit climber that packs solid with nice molle backpack mod for a little rougher hike in but having it be a breeze to climb a tree in 10-15 minutes to now Im not sure how much weight savings with jx3, a wacky climbing method (1-stick,sticks +platform,or lwhc), climbing method tether to me, with dangling climbing aider straps, 2 saddle tethers (1 for rappel, safeguard, triangle, stopper knot) gear hanger rope, rappel retrieve line, pouches hanging, and takes me 30+ pita minutes to climb any tree (look for limbless tree now anyway for ease). My most efficient saddle set up was 3 hawk sticks and platform but couldnt get comfortable in soft saddle (tried Mantis XL, Original Flex, rhc+fleece all back killers for days after hunt). I thought about going back to 3 sticks+ platform with jx3 but might as well carry my summit climber due to negligible weight savings + less freakin pieces to the set up puzzle.
With all that whining being done, im so stubborn I just spent even more dang money to try ROS/climbing steps. If that doesnt work, im selling it all so help me… alright time to go remove the sand.

emoji4.png



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been tempted by the JX3 and there is a guy selling on locally, which is kind of rare. I suspect because it would probably be an absurd shipping cost. But it looks like a mess of ropes and i'm still facing the tree with a tether in my face. I had the Mission with my H2 saddle and it was definitely solid but nearly as heavy as some of the newer hang ons and more awkward to carry with sticks. I'm not completely against saddle hunting. But it just seemed like a never ending rabbit hole of things to distract me from actually hunting and scouting. I can use my hang on or sit on the ground for now. But i'll keep tabs on a newer/lighter climber. Until then I just need to scout and kill some deer.
[/QUOTE]
Honestly, a lot of what goes on this site is a lot of fun, but not necessary. I credit this site for my honing of my system for the past 8 (wow) years. I still use a kestrel because I haven't found something better. I use 7 wild edge stepps with a knaider only and I carry them on the shelf of my MR popup 28. I carry minimal other things with me until later in the season when I start strapping clothes to my pack. I abide by the KISS principle. I've tried most of the climbing methods on the site but what works or is fun in the backyard doesn't always cut it in the woods. I've used most of the sticks out there but for me they just don't compare to the small package of my stepps.

As far as taking shots, moving around the tree... the best way for it to work and be second nature is to practice. The best practice is to get out there and do it and shoot deer. Prior to having a kid I hunted 75-80 sits a year. Now I do about 40, still a lot I know. I shoot about 5 deer a year. My point being is that if anyone wants to get good at this stuff you have to do it and do it a lot. 10,000 times to become an expert I think it is? I don't say any of this to brag, I say it to show that is what it takes. I can climb up and down the tree with my stepps in the dark. I can move around the tree on my steps without looking where they are. I know when I can and can't draw the bow. I know that I can draw the bow and move around the tree with the deer 10 yards away if I'm watching their eyes. It all takes practice and experience. Now I'm off to sit in a tree :)

I didn't mean to rant if it came off like that. When I see people talk about struggling I want them to know it's not easy right off the bat. My best advice would be to pick one system and stick with it to become the expert with that gear.
 
I don't care how compact or light they get climbers to be. I'll never go back. I've used a homemade one, Baker, Ol'Man, API Shootin Star, Summit Viper, and X-Stand. I'll stick with a sitdrag and bolts (pretend I use rope steps for public). People (myself included), can overcomplicate things and add too much "stuff".
 
This thread is really why I rail on about safety climbing trees, and constantly walking around instead of climbing trees to sit for no good reason.

Most people suck at deer hunting. And they could suck orders of magnitude less, if they just went and walked around and learned what deer eat, where they sleep, when they move between those two things, etc. Not read about it. Not guess at it. Actually observe enough deer doing deer stuff during times they'd like to hunt.

Really I think what I've been trying to say, is that many folks are taking unnecessary risks with their lives, wasting god awful amounts of time and money to do so, and are not better at - no - they're worse at - the thing they allegedly set out to do - kill deer.

Here's where I'll agree with a climber being a viable option and it's what @redsquirrel said - If it means you have one tool, and use it effectively, you'll become a more efficient hunter.

If you're not a hunter with significant experience and killing capabilities, who can take climbing method/sitting in a tree uncertainty on board and tinker while still stacking bodies, it's kind of dumb. But I guess people collect stamps and birdwatch for fun... it's no different than that.
 
....... The best practice is to get out there and do it and shoot deer. ........
With the SAME gear.....stick with a system for a couple seasons(or 8 like @redsquirrel here) and it will work. I think that's why I have gone back to a windwalker so many times is it is just EASY for me regardless of weather and location, and I hunted for like 10 years with one....

I told myself one hunting from above system this year, thats it. I've used the sniper saddle and assasin everytime I"ve gone out. ITs like second nature already. I may have to change this up a little when it is butt cold and windy...but that might just be a day I hunt from the ground.

Our goal should be to become efficient with what we have, not try to find something that magically makes us efficient. I admit, I"m a gear head and have bought and traded a lot just because I was curious. But, I feel like i'm pretty much at one saddle(at the VERY LEAST for bow season), one climbing method, and one backpack.

I wont argue as I've said before, during rifle on the farm I can see the advantages of wanting to climb 30ft up an Ash, in a climber on a field edge so I can see in all directions into different fields and pastures...but thats a whole different game...
 
I’ve been thinking about it lately. I started out with an API Grandslam climber over twenty years ago. Man that thing was a bear to carry but it sure was comfortable. All you had to do was hook it up to the tree, start climbing, and sit down. Here where I hunt in Alabama most of the trees I get in with a saddle I could climb with a climber. My biggest complaint with the saddle is all the ropes and stuff to manage. It’s a lot of fiddle factor for me. I have been eyeing the .5’s. I watched Cody D’aquisto on the vortex podcast yesterday and the simplicity of his system is really appealing. Sitting in a little hang on stand just isn’t going to be very comfortable for very long and dang it they have gotten expensive. I would definitely be interested in a lightweight climber option that packed up nice and tight on your back. One thing I love about my saddle is being tied to the tree and climbing with a linesmen belt. What do the tree stand guys use to climb with and stay attached to the tree? Maybe there’s something out there but it seems like you need a stripped down saddle to climb with to set your sticks.


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I’ve been thinking about it lately. I started out with an API Grandslam climber over twenty years ago. Man that thing was a bear to carry but it sure was comfortable. All you had to do was hook it up to the tree, start climbing, and sit down. Here where I hunt in Alabama most of the trees I get in with a saddle I could climb with a climber. My biggest complaint with the saddle is all the ropes and stuff to manage. I have been eyeing the .5’s. I watched Cody D’aquisto on the vortex podcast yesterday and the simplicity of his system is really appealing. Sitting in a little hang on stand just isn’t going to be very comfortable for very long and dang it they have gotten expensive. I would definitely be interested in a lightweight climber option that packed up nice and tight on your back. One thing I love about my saddle is being tied to the tree and climbing with a linesmen belt. What do the tree stand guys use to climb with and stay attached to the tree? Maybe there’s something out there but it seems like you need a stripped down saddle to climb with to set your sticks.


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You still can use a linesman’s belt. If using a climber, I’ll use a RCH and run the rope around the tree and clip to the rope itself like using a tether. Won’t slide as bad yet you can still move it up or down as you go.
 
It's interesting see some people, including me, coming full circle back to climbers. I just want to be comfortable and be able to get 20+ feet without dealing with multiple sticks, and no I'm not one sticking or doing any stuff adapted from rock climbing. I don't want to deal with a bunch of ropes and pouches. Just the climber, harness, and weapon. A Summit type stand that is lighter and packs better would be money.
[/QUOTE]

My 1st stand back in 88 when I started hunting deer in FL was a free baker and another free big boy version that was never used. Borrowed a Baker hand climber, then went w/ a few used Warren and Sweat stands like the rifleman, osage then the big jump to the API GS2500. Awesome stand but had quite a few moving parts, but those teeth were rock solid, never felt unsafe @ any height climbing pines and palms. Unfortunately it loved to chew up trees and if you climbed that same tree you had sap everywhere. Moved to NY in 2000 and sold that stand and got a lighter Summit. Loved that cable system w/ swaged lugs (easy to install new heat shrink, etc) and super quick to adjust. Still have the bow model with the spare rifle upper. The only negative was that style teeth are somewhat dangerous on smooth hard rock maple, and the slapping of the cables in the tube imho.
Still, without a doubt the best climbing stand I have used. I just can't seem to give it up but I only use it on rare occasions as I transitioned immediately to LW sticks that same yr w/fixed stands on state land. Now 1st yr. saddle hunting I'm have not gotten my system down pat where I can effortlessly get up a tree & set my predator in a reasonable time.. I jumped into 1 sticking right off cause in my mind @ 66 I want light, can slip into areas w/o touching things, already had LW sticks but wanted one stick and platform cause I will only hunt the early bow from this method. I'm strictly thick woodland and getting my summit though the thick is like a running bear in dry leaves. I did have a horrible climb yesterday where I could not get my $hit together for the whole hunt... nothing like that in 20 yrs.. but I'm not giving up, I just need more practice and I'm looking @ that post with the predator with the aiders hooked to it as a hand climber with my madrock. So for me like it seems for many of you I certainly would use a light climber early/late season again but it has to be light, compact and w/ reasonable comfortable. My summit was an all day comfortable condo perch.
 
My Summit Titan is only 25lbs. Love it


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Enjoy hearing about the systems of you longtime members that have seen all the “ my go to piece of gear…” only to see it quietly hit the classifieds soon after. I aim for keep it simple and having a system as it cuts down my movement and streamlines pack in/ out.
If I’m not seeing deer - the gear is a placebo.
its Funny first season in a saddle I was covered up in deer had consecutive days with bucks in range , this year has been the opposite. Has me thinking about how to minimize movement as much as possible and limit gear distractions.

I’ve also had some enjoyable ground hunts lately, amazing how much less movement I make sitting with my back to cover with little to no gear.

off topic as I haven’t felt the need to try the hand climber
 
Just sold two climbers. LW assault and alpha. Along with a hand climber top section.

Never really liked using climbers, trees had to be limbless, which was kind of limiting and a pain. Use climbing sticks and a saddle or a treestand provides a lot more flexibility.
 
Our goal should be to become efficient with what we have, not try to find something that magically makes us efficient.

Taken as is, this is rock vs hammer thinking. Some may be more effective with the rock, but the hammer is a more efficient machine for driving nails by design. (Not all rocks and hammers compare equitably.)

No reason a new climbing stand couldn't by design be more efficient for most users than current market offerings. That'd be nice to see, imo.

I agree, folks should become familiar and experienced with a system, but don't think they should force the issue if it's clearly a bad fit. Also, I believe old dogs can learn new tricks, sometimes.
 
This thread is really why I rail on about safety climbing trees, and constantly walking around instead of climbing trees to sit for no good reason.

Most people suck at deer hunting. And they could suck orders of magnitude less, if they just went and walked around and learned what deer eat, where they sleep, when they move between those two things, etc. Not read about it. Not guess at it. Actually observe enough deer doing deer stuff during times they'd like to hunt.

Really I think what I've been trying to say, is that many folks are taking unnecessary risks with their lives, wasting god awful amounts of time and money to do so, and are not better at - no - they're worse at - the thing they allegedly set out to do - kill deer.

Here's where I'll agree with a climber being a viable option and it's what @redsquirrel said - If it means you have one tool, and use it effectively, you'll become a more efficient hunter.

If you're not a hunter with significant experience and killing capabilities, who can take climbing method/sitting in a tree uncertainty on board and tinker while still stacking bodies, it's kind of dumb. But I guess people collect stamps and birdwatch for fun... it's no different than that.

There's definitely some truth here, with the speed of information and thought propelling a seeming race to the edge...and beyond. What's "tried and true" seems more and more to be approaching like last season's fad.

But proficiency with multiple systems shouldn't be dismissed.

Some are great archers as well as marksman with firearms. Should a person bowhunt only until he or she has piled 'em up before taking up firearm hunting? I'd think it sensible to get proficient with both tools, and keep up with that through practice, to maximize opportunities and effectiveness.

But heading out with unfamiliar with a weapon is dangerous, and not all weapons of the same type are the same, and even if you know how to use them, do you know how to maintain them?

I don't know what to say about people sucking, but good tools in proficient hands tends to enable less suckiness often enough.
 
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