• The SH Membership has gone live. Only SH Members have access to post in the classifieds. All members can view the classifieds. Starting in 2020 only SH Members will be admitted to the annual hunting contest. Current members will need to follow these steps to upgrade: 1. Click on your username 2. Click on Account upgrades 3. Choose SH Member and purchase.
  • We've been working hard the past few weeks to come up with some big changes to our vendor policies to meet the changing needs of our community. Please see the new vendor rules here: Vendor Access Area Rules

Falling with slack in your line

Schemeecho said:
The lineman's belt would most likely help and your application could help reduce the impact from the slip or fall but this would only apply to hanging sticks or steps as you go and not apply to one sticking. As for one sticking, I think the best way to help avoid a fall would be to advance your tether as high as you can while keeping constant tension on the tether before trying to swing and move your stick. What that would mean is realistically it would increase the number of moves it takes to reach a certain height. I have seen many videos of people climbing with the one stick method and most of them have one thing in common. The tether slack is real. I have only seen a handful of videos where someone is doing everything they can to minimize the amount of tether slack. So in my opinion the best way to avoid a fall as much as possible would be to move slow. pay attention to the details as you climb. As a matter of fact I have some ideas on how to do it so I think tomorrow I will do a video and see if my ideas work and all of can watch and see if it helps reduce tether slack or not. What do you think? I'm willing to take one for the team
Click to expand...
Gopher it! I'd love to see the video.
 
boyne bowhunter said:
Reply to @Brockys Post above. Apparently it didn't send from our remote camping location.
When I first "restarted" one sticking again I used a linemans belt as I advanced. To be honest it doesn't work as well as you might think. I'm not comfortable advancing my tether with my feet in an unstable aider. I want three solid points of contact when I move my tether. That means two feet on the solid bottom steps of my stick. By that point I've already placed the linemans belt above my tether tie in. Now I have to either slack the linemans or place it too low to really be effective. With the linemans the process became really fiddly and fiddly makes it easy to make mistakes. Sometimes a simpler process is just better. This is why I only use a single step aider
When I've got a foot in the aider I have two hands on tree. Once I step both feet onto my stick I have two feet solidly on the stick and one hand on the backside of the tree at all times. I first hold with my right hand as I pull up the backside of the rope with my left hand. Then I switch and hold the tree with the palm of my left hand while I advance the tether the rest of the way with my right. Smooth and simple maintaining three points minimum all the way up. I always have the linemans attached to one side so if I need it I don't have to fiddle around for it.

I've used that same approach falling from trees several times. While I don't recommend trying it I'm still walking.
Click to expand...
Place the LB below the tether and tighten, push out and walk up, maybe a longer stick and eliminate the aiders. The LB works as long as you keep tensioning it. With LB on, you can also stop at any time and move the tether up farther.
 
skyjacker said:
I would love to talk to tree climbing for hunting experts. If some one could point me to the experts, that would be great. The only thing that comes close is SRT because arborist climb using techniques similar to that. But even then we use different gear (like the Safeguard and 8-9 mm rope) to lighten the load. Most arborist don't care how heavy their gear is and have gear dedicated to the trade. There are certifications in search and rescue, canyoneering, lead climbing, big wall aid climbing, big wall free climbing, etc. There are no certifications for climbing trees in a hunting scenario. Maybe that is something we need to change.
Click to expand...

getting warmer. Folks can guess at my intentions all day because I don’t put sugar in the medicine. I have been clear at every point, getting folks to think this way is 90% of why I say anything at all.
 
Zacrowsl said:
Apologize if I come across as harsh. It's not you...I'm just frustrated with the whole thing and how some people approached it
Click to expand...

If I’m making an incorrect assumption that you’re referring to me here, disregard.

if I’m correct, let me offer some context.

I don’t know you. I assume you’re a decent person - I don’t get psychopath vibes from ya. Likely would lay down my life for you if given the opportunity. Campfire beer drinking I love you man yada yada. I promise, there’s zero judgement on you as a person.

your video is just a crystal clear symbol of a lot of problems we have. Flat out - you under value the potential downsides of what you are doing personally, and especially what the impact is being out in public on YouTube. I don’t think this makes you a bad person. Or makes this a “bad” decision.

My guess is, you want to gain some status in your tribe, be helpful to others, not see anyone get hurt, live a good life, make a few bucks, etc. I have no doubt your intentions are good.

A soft message from me on the topic very likely doesn’t move the needle for you. And it definitely doesn’t move the needle for anyone consuming this thread or the video.

A very pointed response from me may very well not move the needle for you. But it is generating a conversation with at least some semblance of critical thinking. Do you see why I chose the approach I did? The downside is the same either way - you liking me or not matters not right now - we aren’t in each other’s lives. I’d prefer you to like me and us to get along. But I’ll give that positive away in exchange for 1 person changing their perspective on the topic.

Why? Because one person hesitating and thinking through this might save their life. Youre going to find a bunch likable enjoyable people in your life - you don’t need me. The math isn’t even close.

This is the problem with social media. It forces decisions like this. It’s toxic. But this is the world we’re in.

we’ve got 9 pages of discussion and going. This will force someone to at least acknowledge there’s more to the topic than a five minute video. If I had to forego your approval and us being on good terms it’s worth it.

I promise I am not attacking YOU as a man. There is no YOU. It’s an illusion. I’m giving the rest of the strangers consuming your content a much clearer perspective on what it is you’re creating. Intentions don’t matter for identifying what it is. They do matter for deciding on the rules of engagement.

I extended an offer to discuss offline, and it’s open ended. Confrontations like these have led to lasting relationships with members of this forum. I make no assumptions about what you’re like off line. I would appreciate the same treatment. We are talking about a THING you did, not YOU.

If anyone still doubts my motivations in railing on these topics, all I can offer is my words. I promise, on balance, I care more about reducing suffering in your life when I speak about risks associated with climbing and hunting, than anything else.

I don’t engage in small talk or pleasantries in these types of discussions because they distract from reaching useful collaborations. If this offends you, I apologize for that negative impact. But keeping a proper perspective when consuming what I say will fix that. Not my approach.
 
Schemeecho said:
I was wrong this was it
Click to expand...
At a safety meeting at work, a military veteran told us a similar story of a guy who jumped from a plane, chute didn’t open. He landed in a fetal position. He jumped up a few seconds after hitting the ground and walked away. Less than 25 minutes later his adrenaline dump occurred. He crashed to the ground waiting for the paramedics and died of internal injuries. Turns out his adrenaline allowed him to walk with crushed ribs, a punctured lung and 2 broken legs…. It showed this guy pop up in this video, so we know for fact that he survived beyond that end clip? Just curious
 
My wife’s uncle survived a failed chute, he gathered up the chute and bunched it under him, exhaled all the air he could and spread eagled just before impact, said it was the way he was trained.

Putting train back on tracks, maybe a prominent and repeated disclaimer on here about the dangers, like every piece of climbing gear has, would warn people about their doing homework and trying low and slow?
 
Brocky said:
My wife’s uncle survived a failed chute, he gathered up the chute and bunched it under him, exhaled all the air he could and spread eagled just before impact, said it was the way he was trained.

Putting train back on tracks, maybe a prominent and repeated disclaimer on here about the dangers, like every piece of climbing gear has, would warn people about their doing homework and trying low and slow?
Click to expand...
That’s amazing.
 
Brocky said:
My wife’s uncle survived a failed chute, he gathered up the chute and bunched it under him, exhaled all the air he could and spread eagled just before impact, said it was the way he was trained.

Putting train back on tracks, maybe a prominent and repeated disclaimer on here about the dangers, like every piece of climbing gear has, would warn people about their doing homework and trying low and slow?
Click to expand...
Military or civilian jump? No reserve canopy? And if that was the second chute that failed, me and the rigger would be having a serious conversation. But thank goodness he’s ok!!!
 
www.apexsafetysupply.com

DBI Sala 1.7' Soft Stop Lanyard 1246177

A separate in-line energy absorber must be installed between the ends of the lifeline and the harness to reduce the arrest forces resulting from falling over an edge.
www.apexsafetysupply.com

@Zacrowsl maybe instead of using the screamer which is meant to help reduce the shock load on the anchor point you could use one of these soft stops that is designed as a fall arrest device and meant to lower the amount of the fall force that is put on the person falling. Theses are what we used when doing metal roofing. While there is nothing soft about a sudden jerk when at the end of your rope it does help reduce the shock. I know because another guy and I got our safety ropes tangled one day and I was walking out my line I slipped and fell almost 30 feet before the soft stop engaged. The fall still wasnt pretty and it still hurt I was left with only bruises at the end of the day from hitting the wall.
 
This thread has helped me to think about safety and saddle systems a lot more and better. I appreciate everyone's contributions to this.

I had what felt like a moment of clarity today. Probably nothing that hasn't been discussed before, but it occurred to me that to match the safety standards associated with tree stand hunting (TMA I suppose) saddle companies should probably be including a FBH with each saddle sale and directions that say it must be worn in addition to the saddle.

It is so easy to think of the saddle as a replacement of the harness, even though it really is a work positioning device, no different than a tree stand is. Some of the early promoters of this wave of saddle hunting, in the race for lighter weight and less bulk, seemed to promote the idea that saddles replaced a harness. It was often also suggested that saddles were safer (than treestands) since they "prevented" you from falling in the fist place. Until they don't.... then what?

I remember Bobby Boswell's videos often contained startling language around possible system failures (bridge, tether, etc) being "catastrophic". While disheartening, those warnings were well placed, and I appreciate Bobby doing that. Other early influencrs seemed to take a different approach and spent more time reassuring people how safe saddles are, encouraging the "saddle replaces harness" mindset.

It's only now that I'm starting to reevaluate my own adoption of such assumptions. This thread helped me with that.
 
TNSTAAFL said:
This thread has helped me to think about safety and saddle systems a lot more and better. I appreciate everyone's contributions to this.

I had what felt like a moment of clarity today. Probably nothing that hasn't been discussed before, but it occurred to me that to match the safety standards associated with tree stand hunting (TMA I suppose) saddle companies should probably be including a FBH with each saddle sale and directions that say it must be worn in addition to the saddle.

It is so easy to think of the saddle as a replacement of the harness, even though it really is a work positioning device, no different than a tree stand is. Some of the early promoters of this wave of saddle hunting, in the race for lighter weight and less bulk, seemed to promote the idea that saddles replaced a harness. It was often also suggested that saddles were safer (than treestands) since they "prevented" you from falling in the fist place. Until they don't.... then what?

I remember Bobby Boswell's videos often contained startling language around possible system failures (bridge, tether, etc) being "catastrophic". While disheartening, those warnings were well placed, and I appreciate Bobby doing that. Other early influencrs seemed to take a different approach and spent more time reassuring people how safe saddles are, encouraging the "saddle replaces harness" mindset.

It's only now that I'm starting to reevaluate my own adoption of such assumptions. This thread helped me with that.
Click to expand...
The problem I see with this is that for a full body arrest harness to work properly it needs to be connected behind you between the shoulder blades and then attached the tree separately above your head. That would severely limit your ability to freely twist or walk the tree for shots. Furthermore you would now have separate tethers or tree straps to “advance” if you one stick climbed. Once you’re at height, and your tether is weighted it is not possible to fall in a saddle minus catastrophic failure of one of the safety components. That’s why aerohunter says on their site that it’s not possible to fall in a properly used saddle. That statement is true. So my question about the FBH is this, how do you make it attach properly while climbing? And at that point wouldn’t a light weight hang on be better to use? I like how you’re thinking, I have pondered it myself but I can’t see a fix to that issue. I do know trophyline attempted to make a full body fall arresting saddle back in the day and it did not go well for them
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top