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FPS really that important?

Everyone is after the same thing...ACCURACY! Speed means nothing, if you don't hit your intended target.
If you use a range finder on each shot, you know what the distance, where your single pin needs to be set and after that you make the shot.

I'm shooting lower draw weight than my hunting buddies at the 3D shoots and heavier arrows. 54# @ 29" DL and a 505 TAW. :cool:
The guys I'm shooting with have 65# to 70# and their arrow TAW are around 325 to 380. Their sight pins are much closer together than mine, because their setups have flatter trajectory than my setup. This all makes sense and it's what they want to shoot and that's fine for them. :)

What we are all doing the same is.... Using a range finder at each target and binoculars. Much like a hunting situation, we know the distance and where to put the shot. I'm not bragging, but I'll score as good or better than the faster bow setups with my slower and heavier setup.
Why is that? Because everyone shooting knows the yardage, where to put the shot and after that, it's just a matter of the archer making the shot. :)

Where a faster setup will help is on unknown distances. Spot and stalk situations you'll need to use a range finder before taking the shot. Otherwise, you'll have to use some self-control and don't take the shot. :rolleyes:
 
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Rg176bnc said:
The number one reason hunters miss is still yardage estimation. So yes speed does matter. The slower the arrow the smaller your error in judgement has to be. Even with a fast bow a 5yd error is a miss at a certain distance(probably 40yds +-)

In the preseason before reality sets in everyone uses a rangefinder every time, but then you jump the buck of a lifetime walking to your stand and he stops at 28yds and you shoot him for 20 with your 240fps bow and you soon figure out that speed does matter.

A ****ty hit with a heavy arrow is still just that. If that deer is starting to whirl the deer itself,the leg and shoulder blade are all in motion and it sucks the energy right out of your arrow which usually results in a high spine hit and there isnt anything fatal there no matter how hard you pray that there was.

Trad guys and women benefit from a heavier arrow to a point because of where they top out at in setup. For your avg person a heavy arrow for deer is a dumb choice IME.
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If your speed was just 10fps faster, and you had a single pin, and it was set at about 27 yard zero, and you jumped the buck of a Lifetime and he stopped at 28 yards, and you aimed exactly where you want to hit, you’d hit exactly where you aimed. Without thinking, ranging or holding over.

No different than guessing he’s at 20, shooting with your 20 yard pin, and missing, but because your bow shoots 330fps, you still hit very close to your aim point.

But you’d have probably 100gr more mass to work with on impact with the slower setup.
 
Rg176bnc said:
The number one reason hunters miss is still yardage estimation. So yes speed does matter. The slower the arrow the smaller your error in judgement has to be. Even with a fast bow a 5yd error is a miss at a certain distance(probably 40yds +-)

In the preseason before reality sets in everyone uses a rangefinder every time, but then you jump the buck of a lifetime walking to your stand and he stops at 28yds and you shoot him for 20 with your 240fps bow and you soon figure out that speed does matter.

A ****ty hit with a heavy arrow is still just that. If that deer is starting to whirl the deer itself,the leg and shoulder blade are all in motion and it sucks the energy right out of your arrow which usually results in a high spine hit and there isnt anything fatal there no matter how hard you pray that there was.

Trad guys and women benefit from a heavier arrow to a point because of where they top out at in setup. For your avg person a heavy arrow for deer is a dumb choice IME.
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I would counter that the number one reason for a miss is the indian not the bow and arrow. It does not matter whether the bow sends an arrow at 165fps or 365fps the bow will always do what the bow is going to do. The indian determines the outcome. 99% of the time the argument is speed covers inadequacy in range estimation. That issue is no different than an untuned arrow, only in this case the indian is untuned. Make sure you and the bow are tuned, remember you are part of the shooting system.
 
Miss judge the yardage by 3 yards at 165fps and then tell me speed doesnt matter.

If your shooting at a target that cant move its certainly less of a factor. Everything I hunt moves alot, especially at the shot.
 
The way the stuffing was sitting loose in the target at the range yesterday, 3 of my 6 arrows bounced off the 50 yarder and were laying on the ground in front of it, really messed with my mental game.
 
Rg176bnc said:
Miss judge the yardage by 3 yards at 165fps and then tell me speed doesnt matter.

If your shooting at a target that cant move its certainly less of a factor. Everything I hunt moves alot, especially at the shot.
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3 yards at 5 yards, or 3 yards at 35 yards?

Deer can move your point of impact much greater distances than even the slowest bow's trajectory loss in the time it takes for an arrow to arrive from 20 yards out.

velocity does matter. But it's a single input, in a much bigger math problem than I think you're accounting for.

Put simply, you can shoot 330fps with a 375gr arrow. And you can be aiming dead on at a deer 25 yards away. Your point of aim can be exactly where your point of impact "was" when you let it fly. By your own admission that point of impact could be 2-20" away from where it started by the time your arrow arrives. Sure, to a lesser degree than a 250fps arrow. But still so significant you're not outrunning a nervous deer's response time regardless of bow speed.

Does it help? Yes. But again, when that deer moves your 330fps point of impact 4" high and forward, and it be would 6" high and forward with a 250fps arrow, which one do you want? 375gr, or 510gr?

Speed matters. Some.
 
Lol this hits a nerve last year I missed a bruiser thought he was at 7 yards turned out was 12 and my arrow hit the dirt about half way between us.
 
Rg176bnc said:
Miss judge the yardage by 3 yards at 165fps and then tell me speed doesnt matter.

If your shooting at a target that cant move its certainly less of a factor. Everything I hunt moves alot, especially at the shot.
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If you miss judge the yardage by 3 yards on a shot inside of 25 yard, you were not tuned. Bow may have been tuned perfectly but the hunter was not. ;)

Every single deer that I have shot under was not the bows fault, the arrows fault or the deer's fault. I wasnt tuned to judge the yardage properly.
 
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raisins said:
flat trajectory makes hits at unknown yardages way easier

having smaller holds over/under or easier pin gaps is a big deal when hunting
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Totally agree. I shoot a super-fast bow (BowTech RPM360), but with my setup at the time of this story below (60#, 30" draw, 425gr. arrow with Muzzy 3-blade fixed), it didn't go anywhere nearly as fast as it could.

Back in 2018, I was hunting a brand new spot with my climber so I didn't know my yardages stone cold, and because it was a morning hunt, I couldn't range key trees to get some rough ideas. I had a huge buck come through early, and when he stopped broadside to feed on acorns, I quickly ranged him at 24 yards. I aimed my 20-yard pin about halfway up his body, just behind his front leg, and squeezed the shot off. He ducked, and my arrow clipped the bottom of his heart, as it turned out. He ran about 100 yards downhill, laid down, and died a few minutes later. When I climbed down to retrieve my arrow, which was a total pass-through, I looked back at the tree I was hunting from and thought, "Huh, that's the longest looking 24 yards I've ever seen..." I was so confused that I climbed back up the tree and re-ranged the spot. Turns out my range finder had picked up a pencil-thick twig between me and the buck that I couldn't see at the time--he was actually 35 yards away when I shot! Point of the story is, if I hadn't been shooting a pretty fast bow or he ducked just a touch less, there's no way I would've caught vital organs and killed that deer. My only "mistake" there was not seeing a pencil-thick brown twig against a brown-bodied deer at something like 7am (or re-ranging it, which I didn't feel I had time to do)--pretty innocent thing, but again, that would've been the difference between a dead deer and a clean miss with a slower bow setup.

I'm no speed junkie, but I think it's kinda crazy to say speed/flatter trajectories don't matter in the woods when little things like that can go wrong without you knowing it until after the hunt is over.
 
TNbowhunter said:
Totally agree. I shoot a super-fast bow (BowTech RPM360), but with my setup at the time of this story below (60#, 30" draw, 425gr. arrow with Muzzy 3-blade fixed), it didn't go anywhere nearly as fast as it could.

Back in 2018, I was hunting a brand new spot with my climber so I didn't know my yardages stone cold, and because it was a morning hunt, I couldn't range key trees to get some rough ideas. I had a huge buck come through early, and when he stopped broadside to feed on acorns, I quickly ranged him at 24 yards. I aimed my 20-yard pin about halfway up his body, just behind his front leg, and squeezed the shot off. He ducked, and my arrow clipped the bottom of his heart, as it turned out. He ran about 100 yards downhill, laid down, and died a few minutes later. When I climbed down to retrieve my arrow, which was a total pass-through, I looked back at the tree I was hunting from and thought, "Huh, that's the longest looking 24 yards I've ever seen..." I was so confused that I climbed back up the tree and re-ranged the spot. Turns out my range finder had picked up a pencil-thick twig between me and the buck that I couldn't see at the time--he was actually 35 yards away when I shot! Point of the story is, if I hadn't been shooting a pretty fast bow or he ducked just a touch less, there's no way I would've caught vital organs and killed that deer. My only "mistake" there was not seeing a pencil-thick brown twig against a brown-bodied deer at something like 7am (or re-ranging it, which I didn't feel I had time to do)--pretty innocent thing, but again, that would've been the difference between a dead deer and a clean miss with a slower bow setup.

I'm no speed junkie, but I think it's kinda crazy to say speed/flatter trajectories don't matter in the woods when little things like that can go wrong without you knowing it until after the hunt is over.
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good story

i remember when i first started hunting with a compound at age 14

i was little and was shooting an old school bow with aluminum arrows

i shot 3d and it was very hard to make good shots compared to now

compared to back then, having a bow where you can use 1 pin easily from 0 to 30 yards seems like having a super power

the beauty of modern compounds is that you can use a mid weight arrow and get speed and penetration....i don't see that as a compromise that bothers me, i see it as the correct decision for me and how i hunt
 
TNbowhunter said:
Totally agree. I shoot a super-fast bow (BowTech RPM360), but with my setup at the time of this story below (60#, 30" draw, 425gr. arrow with Muzzy 3-blade fixed), it didn't go anywhere nearly as fast as it could.

Back in 2018, I was hunting a brand new spot with my climber so I didn't know my yardages stone cold, and because it was a morning hunt, I couldn't range key trees to get some rough ideas. I had a huge buck come through early, and when he stopped broadside to feed on acorns, I quickly ranged him at 24 yards. I aimed my 20-yard pin about halfway up his body, just behind his front leg, and squeezed the shot off. He ducked, and my arrow clipped the bottom of his heart, as it turned out. He ran about 100 yards downhill, laid down, and died a few minutes later. When I climbed down to retrieve my arrow, which was a total pass-through, I looked back at the tree I was hunting from and thought, "Huh, that's the longest looking 24 yards I've ever seen..." I was so confused that I climbed back up the tree and re-ranged the spot. Turns out my range finder had picked up a pencil-thick twig between me and the buck that I couldn't see at the time--he was actually 35 yards away when I shot! Point of the story is, if I hadn't been shooting a pretty fast bow or he ducked just a touch less, there's no way I would've caught vital organs and killed that deer. My only "mistake" there was not seeing a pencil-thick brown twig against a brown-bodied deer at something like 7am (or re-ranging it, which I didn't feel I had time to do)--pretty innocent thing, but again, that would've been the difference between a dead deer and a clean miss with a slower bow setup.

I'm no speed junkie, but I think it's kinda crazy to say speed/flatter trajectories don't matter in the woods when little things like that can go wrong without you knowing it until after the hunt is over.
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I've been shooting solocam bows for quite awhile, so not speed demons by todays standards. But fast compared to some setups still.

I have 2 pins that I use, 1st takes me to 20yds. 2nd to 30 yds. I always practice shooting the wrong pin and measure the error to get comfortable with what could happen if I get gobbled up in the moment. That includes shooting out to 40 with my 2nd pin. Max error I experience is about the height of a cell phone (6").

I never range in a hunting situation. I range trees when it's light enough. Used to be I could always remember the distances thereafter, but it's been getting harder to keep it all sorted.

Thanks for sharing, glad you got your buck.
 
Weldabeast said:
I think I asked before maybe.....if u gonna miss wouldn't it be "better" to miss low? I intensionally aim a little low to begin with...
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Not necessarily when it's a close, steep angle lung shot. If you miss low, you get one lung and likely no deer.

This video kind of shows that


I'm sure there are odd and ends where it's lucky to hit high, but for killzone hits, this is kind of one to prepare for.
 
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Weldabeast said:
I think I asked before maybe.....if u gonna miss wouldn't it be "better" to miss low? I intensionally aim a little low to begin with...
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I try to always shoot for a bottom third exit. Depends on how close the deer is and how high I am as to where point of entry needs to be. But as to your question, imo, it is better to have a low miss. Much rather shoot under one than backstrap one even though backstrap is non-fatal in most cases.
 
If the deer reacts (we all know they will) the way I look at it is .....the vitals are dropping lower as the thing loads up to bound off so maybe if u lucky that low shot becomes a low shot into the vitals
 
TNbowhunter said:
Totally agree. I shoot a super-fast bow (BowTech RPM360), but with my setup at the time of this story below (60#, 30" draw, 425gr. arrow with Muzzy 3-blade fixed), it didn't go anywhere nearly as fast as it could.

Back in 2018, I was hunting a brand new spot with my climber so I didn't know my yardages stone cold, and because it was a morning hunt, I couldn't range key trees to get some rough ideas. I had a huge buck come through early, and when he stopped broadside to feed on acorns, I quickly ranged him at 24 yards. I aimed my 20-yard pin about halfway up his body, just behind his front leg, and squeezed the shot off. He ducked, and my arrow clipped the bottom of his heart, as it turned out. He ran about 100 yards downhill, laid down, and died a few minutes later. When I climbed down to retrieve my arrow, which was a total pass-through, I looked back at the tree I was hunting from and thought, "Huh, that's the longest looking 24 yards I've ever seen..." I was so confused that I climbed back up the tree and re-ranged the spot. Turns out my range finder had picked up a pencil-thick twig between me and the buck that I couldn't see at the time--he was actually 35 yards away when I shot! Point of the story is, if I hadn't been shooting a pretty fast bow or he ducked just a touch less, there's no way I would've caught vital organs and killed that deer. My only "mistake" there was not seeing a pencil-thick brown twig against a brown-bodied deer at something like 7am (or re-ranging it, which I didn't feel I had time to do)--pretty innocent thing, but again, that would've been the difference between a dead deer and a clean miss with a slower bow setup.

I'm no speed junkie, but I think it's kinda crazy to say speed/flatter trajectories don't matter in the woods when little things like that can go wrong without you knowing it until after the hunt is over.
Click to expand...
Missed a decent buck in a similar fashion. 25 yard shot deer was perfectly broadside and it did not appear there was anything between me and the deer. This was like 2:30-3:00 pm and sunny day but in heavy timber. Shot broke and looked perfect until it caught a piece of limb hanging down and the arrow deflected massively, missed the deer by 6-8 feet. I was shocked and thought how did I not see that hanging there until it finally quit swinging and I could no longer see it. I knew it was there but literally could not see it. 45 minutes to hour later I looked over that direction and the limb was visible plain as day. Light had shifted and it was no longer invisible in plain sight. Crap happens, generally at inopportune times.
 
Fred Bear once said" It's not how far you can shoot but how close you can get! Lighter is faster, flatter, but my Widow shoots 180 FPS and a 600 grn arrow w/18 % FOC shoots a COC through every time. Just MO.
 
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