Friction Hitches

[casts_by_fly]

Hi Gents,

What's the right rope for friction hitches for 9 mm C-IV? I'm currently using (or formerly now) 6 mm rope that I've come to learn is actually accessory cord and in no way the right thing to use. I've got a length of Sterling 6mm TRC from making some Oplux tethers which I think I'll use for the rest of the season, but is there a better choice?

thanks,
rick

 

[gcr0003]

Hi Gents,

What's the right rope for friction hitches for 9 mm C-IV? I'm currently using (or formerly now) 6 mm rope that I've come to learn is actually accessory cord and in no way the right thing to use. I've got a length of Sterling 6mm TRC from making some Oplux tethers which I think I'll use for the rest of the season, but is there a better choice?

thanks,
rick

What are using the chord for? If you are using accessory chord for a stationary tether and it is the proper strength what is the issue?

If you’re rope climbing then sure you want something with better heat resistance and wear resistance.

6mm trc will work great or 7mm will work. youll have to manage more or less wraps on your hitch depending on your weight and the diameter chord you choose. Test from the ground of course until you find a safe combo.

 

[casts_by_fly]

What are using the chord for? If you are using accessory chord for a stationary tether and it is the proper strength what is the issue?

If you’re rope climbing then sure you want something with better heat resistance and wear resistance.

6mm trc will work great or 7mm will work. youll have to manage more or less wraps on your hitch depending on your weight and the diameter chord you choose. Test from the ground of course until you find a safe combo.

longhorn agile hitch on a rappel/tether. I 2tc climb with it, hang in the tree, and rappel down on it.

 

[gcr0003]

longhorn agile hitch on a rappel/tether. I 2tc climb with it, hang in the tree, and rappel down on it.

Yea that 6mm TRC is good for your use case then

 

[thedutchtouch]

This is an impressive thread but admittedly I get a bit lost in the detail. I keep trying to use hitches, but keep going back to mechanicals because they are easier for my lazy brain to remember how to use, or I psych myself out with "what if you don't remember and tie it wrong in the dark", and then the mechanicals undoubtedly make some noise or give me some minor issue and I think "I should go back to less metal". Icing on the cake is one of my CT rollnlocks is getting a bit sticky for lack of better description, harder to get it to open/release the rope when not loaded at all.

So, I'm guessing it's answered more than one in the last 27 pages but also asking here- is there a somewhat general consensus for the "easiest hitch" for general tether use? Let's say one that holds well but could break under load if needed, but no need for remote release. Even the breaking under load isn't completely necessary, primary use is just mechanical ascender replacement, with emphasis being on ease of tying/simplicity? Good old standard prussik? I currently have 8mm ropes but not opposed to switching it up for my (2tc) tethers. Also not opposed to getting new hitch cord, be it a loop or length with sewn eyes.

Recommitting to metal free this off season. I think.

 

[gcr0003]

This is an impressive thread but admittedly I get a bit lost in the detail. I keep trying to use hitches, but keep going back to mechanicals because they are easier for my lazy brain to remember how to use, or I psych myself out with "what if you don't remember and tie it wrong in the dark", and then the mechanicals undoubtedly make some noise or give me some minor issue and I think "I should go back to less metal". Icing on the cake is one of my CT rollnlocks is getting a bit sticky for lack of better description, harder to get it to open/release the rope when not loaded at all.

So, I'm guessing it's answered more than one in the last 27 pages but also asking here- is there a somewhat general consensus for the "easiest hitch" for general tether use? Let's say one that holds well but could break under load if needed, but no need for remote release. Even the breaking under load isn't completely necessary, primary use is just mechanical ascender replacement, with emphasis being on ease of tying/simplicity? Good old standard prussik? I currently have 8mm ropes but not opposed to switching it up for my (2tc) tethers. Also not opposed to getting new hitch cord, be it a loop or length with sewn eyes.

Recommitting to metal free this off season. I think.

A prusik will operate exactly like a mechanical ascender i.e. Kong, ropeman, CT, etc. No it will not break under load, and yes it takes two hands to adjust (one to keep the tether taut and the other to slide the hitch), but it is stupid simple to tie and holds well every time. When it comes to capturing a fall load the prusik will slip at a little lower force; however, you won’t be generating that force using it on a tether and that force is still 3-4x what an ascender type will hold before biting/cutting the rope. I have had so many slip and slides, retie, reconfigure, oopsies, you name it with other hitches both climbing and on a tether. They all have their pros and cons, and work great until they don’t. At the end of the day the prusik is easy to adjust and locks down every time.

For 8mm rope you can use a beal jammy if you don’t want to worry about tying knots. Can’t get much simpler than that. Configure the prusik and let it live on your tether forever.

 

[arm breaker]

This is an impressive thread but admittedly I get a bit lost in the detail. I keep trying to use hitches, but keep going back to mechanicals because they are easier for my lazy brain to remember how to use, or I psych myself out with "what if you don't remember and tie it wrong in the dark", and then the mechanicals undoubtedly make some noise or give me some minor issue and I think "I should go back to less metal". Icing on the cake is one of my CT rollnlocks is getting a bit sticky for lack of better description, harder to get it to open/release the rope when not loaded at all.

So, I'm guessing it's answered more than one in the last 27 pages but also asking here- is there a somewhat general consensus for the "easiest hitch" for general tether use? Let's say one that holds well but could break under load if needed, but no need for remote release. Even the breaking under load isn't completely necessary, primary use is just mechanical ascender replacement, with emphasis being on ease of tying/simplicity? Good old standard prussik? I currently have 8mm ropes but not opposed to switching it up for my (2tc) tethers. Also not opposed to getting new hitch cord, be it a loop or length with sewn eyes.

Recommitting to metal free this off season. I think.

I am far from an expert but I guess I am curious how often these need to be tied in the dark—especially on a tether. I have lots of tethers set up with the Knut hitch (which meets your properties fairly well) and it is about as easy to tie as anything. At the same time, I leave it tied and the ends are tied on a carabiner with a tender between them. The assembly really cannot come lose under most circumstances so it is always ready to go. In my experience you won't get anything to work quite as well as a mechanical ascender (e.g., rollnlock), but you can get really close. I would argue that the letting slack out part may even be just as easy as you don't need to fiddle with opening the device.

Now, if one were rope climbing all the way up and down and such that may be a different story on whether you would have to occasionally tie the hitches in the dark, and they might need some flexible properties.

 

[BTaylor]

I would lean towards recommending getting an eye to eye cord and using a cornell hitch. It is easy to tie, breaks under load and is easy to or can be made to self tend.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

Manipulate the “bar” on a prusik and it becomes MUCH easier to break. It can even be done under a modest load, if you can just relieve the line of a little pressure somehow. Nowhere near as easily as some other hitches but it’s a pretty solid stay-still hitch for tether usage. I just recently went back to a standard prusik on my tether cuz I was not happy with the way the cord was biting with some other hitches. I may revert to the Sticht just for that releasability. On my 9mm rappel line, I hunt from a 6mm Agile and rappel on a 7mm Sticht/8 combo. That matters too, the cord/rope/device combos you use. I’m finding TRC to be a great biting cord but horribly difficult to release under load even with the easiest hitches. Unfortunately it’s the best cord I’ve found for 8mm RescTech. My point is, different combos of rope and cord work differently depending on the knots you use, too. Just like a GriGri and a Fig8 and a “Madrock” all work differently on different ropes for the same purposes.

 

[gcr0003]

I would lean towards recommending getting an eye to eye cord and using a cornell hitch. It is easy to tie, breaks under load and is easy to or can be made to self tend.

Weird rant but here it goes…

I’d be interested to hear what everyone describes as self tending hitch… this isn’t to you specifically Btaylor

Do you consider it to be a one handed operation where one pulls on the tag end to release and progress the hitch further up the rope?
Would you agree you still need to take your weight off of the hitch to tend it?
If you are in fact needing to take weight off to take up the slack and self tend the hitch could you tell me what your other hand is doing during this time? Is it possible that that other hand is grabbing the tree, above the hitch, or onto the bridge or somewhere else to lift oneself up in order to give your other hand the ability to take up slack out of the hitch? Maybe not everytime but sometimes. Have you ever took the weight off your saddle by standing, pulled the tag end of your rope to self tend the hitch and caused your tether to fall because your self tending hitch wasnt self tending as easily as you thought?

My rant is one against self tending. This is a feature that is pointless to me. Wether you use a prusik or any other hitch, it is much easier to grab and pull oneself up at the same time from the tag end and push the hitch up with the free hand. In this way you maintain a tight connection to the tree at all times and have no worry about the tether falling down. In reverse it is easier to pull oneself slightly up to take weight of the hitch and use the free hand to adjust the hitch down as you slowly reweight the hitch controllably with the hand that raised you.

 

[Horn]

Weird rant but here it goes…

I’d be interested to hear what everyone describes as self tending hitch… this isn’t to you specifically Btaylor

Do you consider it to be a one handed operation where one pulls on the tag end to release and progress the hitch further up the rope?
Would you agree you still need to take your weight off of the hitch to tend it?
If you are in fact needing to take weight off to take up the slack and self tend the hitch could you tell me what your other hand is doing during this time? Is it possible that that other hand is grabbing the tree, above the hitch, or onto the bridge or somewhere else to lift oneself up in order to give your other hand the ability to take up slack out of the hitch? Maybe not everytime but sometimes. Have you ever took the weight off your saddle by standing, pulled the tag end of your rope to self tend the hitch and caused your tether to fall because your self tending hitch wasnt self tending as easily as you thought?

My rant is one against self tending. This is a feature that is pointless to me. Wether you use a prusik or any other hitch, it is much easier to grab and pull oneself up at the same time from the tag end and push the hitch up with the free hand. In this way you maintain a tight connection to the tree at all times and have no worry about the tether falling down. In reverse it is easier to pull oneself slightly up to take weight of the hitch and use the free hand to adjust the hitch down as you slowly reweight the hitch controllably with the hand that raised you.

I think self tending would probably lift you up one handed if you had the strength to do it, so yeah most people probably do unweight it a little to advance the hitch.

Self tending and break under load seem to go hand in hand, and to me it's this combo that is what I'm really after. It makes moving the hitch easy. The classic prussic, for example, needs to be massaged to be moved easily. The self tend / break under load hitches don't suffer from that

 

[gcr0003]

I think self tending would probably lift you up one handed if you had the strength to do it, so yeah most people probably do unweight it a little to advance the hitch.

Self tending and break under load seem to go hand in hand, and to me it's this combo that is what I'm really after. It makes moving the hitch easy. The classic prussic, for example, needs to be massaged to be moved easily. The self tend / break under load hitches don't suffer from that

My point being if you’re doing anything else other than ashing a cig with your free hand while “self tending” then it isn’t one handed. To me it takes two hands to adjust a hitch (typically) and with a prusik or any hitch it is easier and safer to move with two hands.

I have discovered that the prusik adjusts as quick and easy, maybe even easier than any other hitch out there for tether use. It doesn’t need massaged. Take the ends going to the caribiner and push in to unlock and slide. Pull out to lock back in place. The difference with the prussic is that when you push in there is close to 0 friction, other hitches will have residual friction from the way they are tied and the weight you place on them before. Even the great JRB said that he does not like the prusik hitch because it breaks open extremely easily and bites down very hard. Those are the very reasons why I love the prusik for my tether. I need to make a short video demonstrating this. It’s what I tend to go back to even though there are a lot of hitches out there that I have used and have enjoyed.

 

[casts_by_fly]

I am far from an expert but I guess I am curious how often these need to be tied in the dark—especially on a tether. I have lots of tethers set up with the Knut hitch (which meets your properties fairly well) and it is about as easy to tie as anything. At the same time, I leave it tied and the ends are tied on a carabiner with a tender between them. The assembly really cannot come lose under most circumstances so it is always ready to go. In my experience you won't get anything to work quite as well as a mechanical ascender (e.g., rollnlock), but you can get really close. I would argue that the letting slack out part may even be just as easy as you don't need to fiddle with opening the device.

Now, if one were rope climbing all the way up and down and such that may be a different story on whether you would have to occasionally tie the hitches in the dark, and they might need some flexible properties.

If you're just talking about 2TC climbing with 2 tethers (not a rappel rope) then you'd never need to tie your hitch in the dark. That's my basic 2TC setup with two 11' lengths of 8mm resctec, a delta link on each, and a prussic (or variation) as the hitch. One one of them I have a 6mm double eye. The other I used 6mm rope to make a full loop first and then tied a swabisch I think. Both stay tied and in my pack/saddle all the time.

I don't normally use the basic top tether though, I have 40' of CIV as a rappel rope that doubles as my top tether. In that case, I have the JRB longhorn agile tied on. Breaks under load (in fact I can be hanging from it during a rappel and break it while I'm hanging to let it slide down the rope), holds tight up in the tree. I tie it onto my rappel rope at home when I remember to, but its easy enough to tie at the tree after you've hooked the tether around the tree. You tie the longhorn at home and leave the loops the right length. Then its just 5 wraps up, two more down, and hook it up to your caribeaner. After rappeling down you have to pull it off so that your tag end of the rappel rope can get throught he delta link. I've not tried John's exploding hitch yet, but that's in the cards for the spring.

 

[krub6b]

This is an impressive thread but admittedly I get a bit lost in the detail. I keep trying to use hitches, but keep going back to mechanicals because they are easier for my lazy brain to remember how to use, or I psych myself out with "what if you don't remember and tie it wrong in the dark", and then the mechanicals undoubtedly make some noise or give me some minor issue and I think "I should go back to less metal". Icing on the cake is one of my CT rollnlocks is getting a bit sticky for lack of better description, harder to get it to open/release the rope when not loaded at all.

So, I'm guessing it's answered more than one in the last 27 pages but also asking here- is there a somewhat general consensus for the "easiest hitch" for general tether use? Let's say one that holds well but could break under load if needed, but no need for remote release. Even the breaking under load isn't completely necessary, primary use is just mechanical ascender replacement, with emphasis being on ease of tying/simplicity? Good old standard prussik? I currently have 8mm ropes but not opposed to switching it up for my (2tc) tethers. Also not opposed to getting new hitch cord, be it a loop or length with sewn eyes.

Recommitting to metal free this off season. I think.

I think the longhorn agile may be what you are looking for in terms of functionality and simple tying. The real question becomes what combo of ropes do you need to use to get maximum functionality out of your hitch? If I were going to order material for a friction hitch I would probably decide on material I wanted and maybe order a goodly length to tie several hitches to play with this off season.

 

[John RB]

Weird rant but here it goes…

I’d be interested to hear what everyone describes as self tending hitch… this isn’t to you specifically Btaylor

Do you consider it to be a one handed operation where one pulls on the tag end to release and progress the hitch further up the rope?
Would you agree you still need to take your weight off of the hitch to tend it?
If you are in fact needing to take weight off to take up the slack and self tend the hitch could you tell me what your other hand is doing during this time? Is it possible that that other hand is grabbing the tree, above the hitch, or onto the bridge or somewhere else to lift oneself up in order to give your other hand the ability to take up slack out of the hitch? Maybe not everytime but sometimes. Have you ever took the weight off your saddle by standing, pulled the tag end of your rope to self tend the hitch and caused your tether to fall because your self tending hitch wasnt self tending as easily as you thought?

My rant is one against self tending. This is a feature that is pointless to me. Wether you use a prusik or any other hitch, it is much easier to grab and pull oneself up at the same time from the tag end and push the hitch up with the free hand. In this way you maintain a tight connection to the tree at all times and have no worry about the tether falling down. In reverse it is easier to pull oneself slightly up to take weight of the hitch and use the free hand to adjust the hitch down as you slowly reweight the hitch controllably with the hand that raised you.

Pls consider that we should assume the actual critical hunting scenarios whereby deer are right by you, possibly on both sides of you, and you are trying to position for a shot opportunity where your didn't expect it. Example: You were sitting when Bucky appeared and you could have executed the strong side shot but he's coming in diagonally and will be on your weak side before you get a shot. You one hand has been holding your bow or weapon since he appeared and now you need to adjust your position with one hand, standing and turning for a weakside shot and removing slack to do so. You need a friction hitch that works just like a ropeman, either on your tether, bridge, or both like I run my system (Longhorn Agile on Lifeline and JRB Ascender on bridge loop). In 15 years and countless tags filled, i have been in some scenarios i couldn't have planned for and learned a few things the hard way. The ones that haunt me are the times i could not get the shot opportunity or got busted at a big buck and why. While on the topic, the SRT team should always bring up their rope and leave nothing dangling. Every time I made a mistake, i made a change so it wouldn't happen again. You may think these scenarios are low likelihood and you don't need to worry about em, and that's fine. But I believe we all are likely to kick ourselves after we blew a shot opportunity.... i am just trying to save ya the hassle and learn from my mistakes. Cheers.

JrbTreeClimbing.com, affiliated with RockNArbor.com

 

[BTaylor]

Weird rant but here it goes…

I’d be interested to hear what everyone describes as self tending hitch… this isn’t to you specifically Btaylor

Do you consider it to be a one handed operation where one pulls on the tag end to release and progress the hitch further up the rope?
Would you agree you still need to take your weight off of the hitch to tend it?
If you are in fact needing to take weight off to take up the slack and self tend the hitch could you tell me what your other hand is doing during this time? Is it possible that that other hand is grabbing the tree, above the hitch, or onto the bridge or somewhere else to lift oneself up in order to give your other hand the ability to take up slack out of the hitch? Maybe not everytime but sometimes. Have you ever took the weight off your saddle by standing, pulled the tag end of your rope to self tend the hitch and caused your tether to fall because your self tending hitch wasnt self tending as easily as you thought?

My rant is one against self tending. This is a feature that is pointless to me. Wether you use a prusik or any other hitch, it is much easier to grab and pull oneself up at the same time from the tag end and push the hitch up with the free hand. In this way you maintain a tight connection to the tree at all times and have no worry about the tether falling down. In reverse it is easier to pull oneself slightly up to take weight of the hitch and use the free hand to adjust the hitch down as you slowly reweight the hitch controllably with the hand that raised you.

Another scenario besides the one handed positioning @John RB just mentioned with deer in close is when using a foot loop. I hold the tag end of the rappel rope below the hitch the foot loop is on in my left hand and manipulte the hitch I am on with my right. I stand and slide up the hitch I am on, sit back in the saddle and lift the tag end to raise or tend the foot loop hitch up.

I have made one hand shot positioning adjustments several times hunting from both a platform and a regular stand. The last deer I killed, the shot was at my 6 and through a cedar tree about 3-4 yards behind me. Deer was 25 yards. I needed to get in a lower position to get an arrow through the tree and to the deer. I just reached back and gently released the hitch while fully loaded and let myself lower the few inches I needed to make the shot. I could not have done that on a prussik. That may not be an advisable usage but that deer needed a good killin.

 

[gcr0003]

Another scenario besides the one handed positioning @John RB just mentioned with deer in close is when using a foot loop. I hold the tag end of the rappel rope below the hitch the foot loop is on in my left hand and manipulte the hitch I am on with my right. I stand and slide up the hitch I am on, sit back in the saddle and lift the tag end to raise or tend the foot loop hitch up.

I have made one hand shot positioning adjustments several times hunting from both a platform and a regular stand. The last deer I killed, the shot was at my 6 and through a cedar tree about 3-4 yards behind me. Deer was 25 yards. I needed to get in a lower position to get an arrow through the tree and to the deer. I just reached back and gently released the hitch while fully loaded and let myself lower the few inches I needed to make the shot. I could not have done that on a prussik. That may not be an advisable usage but that deer needed a good killin.

That’s one reason I do like the Garda foot loop for rope climbing or 2tc. You pull the tag end to easily tend it up. I hear people saying they needed to make adjustments for a shot I just haven’t ran into it much myself. Prussic definitely limits that some, though not entirely, very dependent on rope type and size. Good points as always!

 

[Brocky]

Manipulate the “bar” on a prusik and it becomes MUCH easier to break. It can even be done under a modest load, if you can just relieve the line of a little pressure somehow. Nowhere near as easily as some other hitches but it’s a pretty solid stay-still hitch for tether usage. I just recently went back to a standard prusik on my tether cuz I was not happy with the way the cord was biting with some other hitches. I may revert to the Sticht just for that releasability. On my 9mm rappel line, I hunt from a 6mm Agile and rappel on a 7mm Sticht/8 combo. That matters too, the cord/rope/device combos you use. I’m finding TRC to be a great biting cord but horribly difficult to release under load even with the easiest hitches. Unfortunately it’s the best cord I’ve found for 8mm RescTech. My point is, different combos of rope and cord work differently depending on the knots you use, too. Just like a GriGri and a Fig8 and a “Madrock” all work differently on different ropes for the same purposes.

Thumbing the bridge is the terms cavers came up with years ago, someone made a special aluminum plate that was part of the hitch to help do this.

Weird rant but here it goes…

I’d be interested to hear what everyone describes as self tending hitch… this isn’t to you specifically Btaylor

Do you consider it to be a one handed operation where one pulls on the tag end to release and progress the hitch further up the rope?
Would you agree you still need to take your weight off of the hitch to tend it?
If you are in fact needing to take weight off to take up the slack and self tend the hitch could you tell me what your other hand is doing during this time? Is it possible that that other hand is grabbing the tree, above the hitch, or onto the bridge or somewhere else to lift oneself up in order to give your other hand the ability to take up slack out of the hitch? Maybe not everytime but sometimes. Have you ever took the weight off your saddle by standing, pulled the tag end of your rope to self tend the hitch and caused your tether to fall because your self tending hitch wasnt self tending as easily as you thought?

My rant is one against self tending. This is a feature that is pointless to me. Wether you use a prusik or any other hitch, it is much easier to grab and pull oneself up at the same time from the tag end and push the hitch up with the free hand. In this way you maintain a tight connection to the tree at all times and have no worry about the tether falling down. In reverse it is easier to pull oneself slightly up to take weight of the hitch and use the free hand to adjust the hitch down as you slowly reweight the hitch controllably with the hand that raised you.

Self hand tending means pulling up on the rope make the hitch slide upward, this is for taking slack out of an unloaded line, without adding any hardware. Self tending means pulling up on the hitch eyes, legs, or the carabiner it is clipped to, makes it ascend, without any added hardware.

 

[steveharvey]

This thread has been extremely informative and thought-provoking. As a semi-newb fascinated by the different hitches but somewhat overwhelmed, I have been thinking about a decision tree flow chart, based on what you have available, and what features you are looking for. It may prove useless or confusing but I wanted to give it a go. I need some help from @Brocky or someone with the experience and a little time if we want to really make it accurate and useful, but here goes! Obviously it's not an exhaustive list but I would argue we should only know a few very well, determine our preference, and get back to hunting. Anyone want to help?

 

[gcr0003]

This thread has been extremely informative and thought-provoking. As a semi-newb fascinated by the different hitches but somewhat overwhelmed, I have been thinking about a decision tree flow chart, based on what you have available, and what features you are looking for. It may prove useless or confusing but I wanted to give it a go. I need some help from @Brocky or someone with the experience and a little time if we want to really make it accurate and useful, but here goes! Obviously it's not an exhaustive list but I would argue we should only know a few very well, determine our preference, and get back to hunting. Anyone want to help?

Neat concept, I love flow charts. Sitcht and knut H need to be moved to length of chord or eye to eye. It’s not standard for them to be tied with a sewn loop. The Longhorn or the longhorn agile may be able replace as it can be tied with a single sewn loop @John RB ?