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Full Redundant Backup for Entire Saddle - 0.8 lbs.

dlist777 said:
One final thought: It's not really the equipment that is the issue (in most cases....some people get pretty aggressive here for weight savings). It's the human factor. The tether isn't going to fail, its the knot that isn't tied right or the guy who let the tether fray and didn't replace it...The purssik isn't tied right or the diameter is wrong for the rope its on....The caribiner isn't actually clipped on in the dark or you didn't lock it or its loaded wrong, etc. etc.
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Now you're speaking some truth! :)
 
So, I am brand new to the saddle stuff. Been hunting all my life, am 55 young, used stands, ladders, climbers (think my first was the wood warrren and sweat, remember them?), hate to say how many times I have hunted from pine trees by just climbing up and sitting on a limb, and sat in stands without a harness. I am so much looking forward to this saddle thing, but I won't kid myself, hanging from a tree like this is going to take some getting used to, but I so want it to work, this is a whole new level of my future years of hunting. Key for me is going to feel SAFE. DIY for me, forget it. I went with a Mantis starter kit, along with some additional options. I want to keep it as simple for me as I can. And yes, already reading and figuring out what I will use as a backup, at least till I get a year or two experience. So already thinking once up and tethered in, I would keep the lineman belt attached, maybe lower so it does not hinder shots, not sure. Will start searching after this post, but sounds like the rigger belt may be a nice simple backup option, what is it? Also, what do you use if your tools to climb fail, you are up hanging 20 feet - you carry a rope that you could slowly repel down? Just thinking, looking forward to playing with it, at ground zero of course to start.
 
Another thought from a rookie - what about a second tether, attached to lineman loops? On the saddle, are the loops for the bridge/tether and the loops for the line belt all tied together? Sorry if this sounds dumb.
 
dlist777 said:
If you were standing on a hang on stand with a saddle hooked up, wouldn't you be safer than if you were hanging from a saddle? Two things have to fail for you to fall instead of 1.
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No. You would fall into any slack and swing around and possibly be injured if the stand broke or you slipped. The higher safety rating of the saddle and the loading where you can keep it loaded/slack free and still have better mobility are inherently safer.
 
dlist777 said:
For anyone still following this: I switched out the harness for this one: https://www.backcountry.com/edelrid-huascaran-harness?s=a. It's a little less "lingerie" looking and still super light (under 8 oz). Very comfortable too.
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Haha, nice, that's the one I put linesman's loops on. It works great for use with my fleece saddle, and I love how you can put it on without taking your feet off the ground. Not a big deal till your in the snow with big boots.
 
The belt on a RCH is climbing support so I just clip a carabiner or loop a sling fully around the belt on each side for fall protection or linesmans belt attachment.
 
The OP is spot on in my opinion. A recent fall was reported on FB. And yes, that gent may have used an improper knot on his bridge, but the fact is, sh!t can happen out there. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with redundancy. Tell you this, with all the new folks I see jumping into saddle hunting these last two years (me included and it's super to see), I guarantee you we will be reading about falls that unfortunately will not end up as good as the FB poster's did. Thank god he's fine after a 20 foot fall while practicing in his back yard. Full support of redundancy here and I would love to see some support from the long-time saddle hunters on here - especially for newbies.
 
Dakotablues said:
The OP is spot on in my opinion. A recent fall was reported on FB. And yes, that gent may have used an improper knot on his bridge, but the fact is, sh!t can happen out there. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with redundancy. Tell you this, with all the new folks I see jumping into saddle hunting these last two years (me included and it's super to see), I guarantee you we will be reading about falls that unfortunately will not end up as good as the FB poster's did. Thank god he's fine after a 20 foot fall while practicing in his back yard. Full support of redundancy here and I would love to see some support from the long-time saddle hunters on here - especially for newbies.
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I am a bit distressed about the fact that the tether and bridge are the only means of support on the saddle system. These better be bulletproof or fall over backward accidents will happen. I have been keeping my linesmans belt attached and see no downside to doing so. I don't care what other people do, I want to be safe.
 
bj139 said:
I am a bit distressed about the fact that the tether and bridge are the only means of support on the saddle system. These better be bulletproof or fall over backward accidents will happen. I have been keeping my linesmans belt attached and see no downside to doing so. I don't care what other people do, I want to be safe.
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Agree — especially when the setup includes mechanical components like a ropeman. I really like the idea of a backup that’s not overkill, just not sure of the best option (lineman’s belt on the same harness, second tether on a RC harness, or something else).
 
When my Mantis arrives, here is what I decided for now. Ordered a "215 Gear Ultimate Riggers Belt", wears like a belt so very low profile, I like the sewn in attachment point for attachment. My plan is to have a second tether, maybe something a little smaller and lighter then what comes on Mantis kit, attached to the riggers belt and girth hitched to the tree close to the Mantis tether. Thinking it will not be as prohibitive as having the tether and line belt both attached (hunting height). Also with both being close to each other (from tree back to body), I can have both set with very close tension. Have to play more and get a better feel when I have them. But I will have the belt to start playing with weeks before the Mantis arrives.
Should have the belt in a few days, so will go out back on a tree (close to ground level), and also start getting the feel for the ATC and auto block setup I will be using.
 
tmattson said:
When my Mantis arrives, here is what I decided for now. Ordered a "215 Gear Ultimate Riggers Belt", wears like a belt so very low profile, I like the sewn in attachment point for attachment. My plan is to have a second tether, maybe something a little smaller and lighter then what comes on Mantis kit, attached to the riggers belt and girth hitched to the tree close to the Mantis tether. Thinking it will not be as prohibitive as having the tether and line belt both attached (hunting height). Also with both being close to each other (from tree back to body), I can have both set with very close tension. Have to play more and get a better feel when I have them. But I will have the belt to start playing with weeks before the Mantis arrives.
Should have the belt in a few days, so will go out back on a tree (close to ground level), and also start getting the feel for the ATC and auto block setup I will be using.
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Yeah - I'm thinking a second, smaller tether would be a nice backup. Either looped twice through the spliced eye to help keep it in place, or maybe even just placed ABOVE the primary tether, but it still may dislodge and fall down a bit when moving around the tree. Castration band or similar could work nicely too to keep it in place - considering there will be no weight on that secondary tether to keep it taught to the tree.
 
bj139 said:
I am a bit distressed about the fact that the tether and bridge are the only means of support on the saddle system. These better be bulletproof or fall over backward accidents will happen. I have been keeping my linesmans belt attached and see no downside to doing so. I don't care what other people do, I want to be safe.
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Curious, doesn't the LB continuously fall down when hunting? You must keep it tight or have a hook on the opposing side of the tree to drape it over? if you go from sitting to leaning, aren't you constantly having to adjust the length of that LB?

Regarding falling over backwards, there are several videos out there of gents doing it intentionally and showing a proper recovery which isn't too bad when it's planned (meaning, you don't hit your head hard on the trunk of the tree or worse on a climbing stick or screw in step, etc.). While I've only hunted in the saddle one year (Kestrel), I don't fear falling backwards so much. I'd never say never though, and if you think the LB can help prevent that then cool. I'm not sure it would prevent that, but maybe you have it pretty snugged up. I'm just thinking of the tether length to sit and the LB length to sit - seems like there is still plenty of room to allow you to flip backwards given there is still nothing holding your upper body up unlike a conventions safety harness. I do stress again, though, that flipping over backwards isn't a concern of mine. My bigger concern is that something as seemingly small as a prusik knot is ALL that is holding some guys up in the tree for countless hours each season.
 
Dakotablues said:
Yeah - I'm thinking a second, smaller tether would be a nice backup. Either looped twice through the spliced eye to help keep it in place, or maybe even just placed ABOVE the primary tether, but it still may dislodge and fall down a bit when moving around the tree. Castration band or similar could work nicely too to keep it in place - considering there will be no weight on that secondary tether to keep it taught to the tree.
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I use a 2nd tether. I cut out one of those plastic balls from a bungee ball. Then I drilled out a hole the same diameter of my tether. I undid the stopper knot on my tether and inserted the ball. When I girth hitch the 2nd tether I move the ball up tight against the hitch. It allows me to leave some slack on the 2nd tether and not have it slip. Re tie the stopper knot of course....
 
dlist777 said:
I use a 2nd tether. I cut out one of those plastic balls from a bungee ball. Then I drilled out a hole the same diameter of my tether. I undid the stopper knot on my tether and inserted the ball. When I girth hitch the 2nd tether I move the ball up tight against the hitch. It allows me to leave some slack on the 2nd tether and not have it slip. Re tie the stopper knot of course....
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Yep - makes perfect sense. Probably going to find the most minimal, non-intrusive backup harness I can for my son and I and give that a run. Gotta decide on a good, lightweight backup tether and prusik.
 
I’ve been practicing, tinkering and re-tinkering since I got my saddle about a month ago. I’ve decided on 2 bridges and 2 tethers. One bridge is shorter than the other. My lineman’s belt is my second tether. Each tether connects to its own bridge. The prusiks are different lengths to ensure they are staggered and not going to clank carabiners. It’s actually very unobtrusive since the tethers are almost exactly in line with each other. I’ll try and post a pic later.

Emrah


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Dakotablues said:
Yep - makes perfect sense. Probably going to find the most minimal, non-intrusive backup harness I can for my son and I and give that a run. Gotta decide on a good, lightweight backup tether and prusik.
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Take a look at my previous posts regarding minimalist backup harnesses. I'm using the one a few posts up (post 46). It weighs less than 1/2 pound and I don't find it uncomfortable at all.
 
Dakotablues said:
Curious, doesn't the LB continuously fall down when hunting? You must keep it tight or have a hook on the opposing side of the tree to drape it over? if you go from sitting to leaning, aren't you constantly having to adjust the length of that LB?

Regarding falling over backwards, there are several videos out there of gents doing it intentionally and showing a proper recovery which isn't too bad when it's planned (meaning, you don't hit your head hard on the trunk of the tree or worse on a climbing stick or screw in step, etc.). While I've only hunted in the saddle one year (Kestrel), I don't fear falling backwards so much. I'd never say never though, and if you think the LB can help prevent that then cool. I'm not sure it would prevent that, but maybe you have it pretty snugged up. I'm just thinking of the tether length to sit and the LB length to sit - seems like there is still plenty of room to allow you to flip backwards given there is still nothing holding your upper body up unlike a conventions safety harness. I do stress again, though, that flipping over backwards isn't a concern of mine. My bigger concern is that something as seemingly small as a prusik knot is ALL that is holding some guys up in the tree for countless hours each season.
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I meant falling from height and hitting the ground due to tether or bridge failure. The problem seems to always be homemade support. I think the manufacturers are safe enough. I agree the prusik knot is a weak spot since it is smaller diameter. The tag ends on my prusiks are readily visible. Webbing on the same webbing color blends in when overlapped which seems to be a problem. I haven't hunted yet from a saddle so I don't know how the LB or tether interferes with shooting. The tree I was sitting in yesterday was about 15 inches in diameter. I was able to keep my LB up by reaching around the tree. I did make my Hawk Helium sticks into muddy sticks since it has been raining here a lot. This was my first sit in a tree in the woods. I had my bow but it never left my car. Today I plan to try SRT in the same woods.
 
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