Getting learnt with Dr. Ed Ashby

[Kurt]

My only issue is most of his testing was done with recurves which need all the help they can get penetration wise. In his kifarucast episode he said they tried testing with an older darton compound and it blew through everything, hard to measure which penetrates best when the arrows don't stop. So when thinking about his studies you should realize your compound has way more energy then the stick bows they were testing with.

Which is why I feel it gives me some fudge factor in applying his 12 points of penetration, and will still leave me with an arrow that should give me no problems in the deer woods 25yds and under.

 

[Kurt]

I plan on building an arrow that can go through the tree behind the deer. I dont think it costs much if any more to build an arrow with these intentions.

I will also be switching to fixed blade so I dont have to worry if my broadhead opened or not and if it can handle heavy bone if that is where it ends up hitting.



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I think for the most part your right about cost. I have found in my recent research that the standard components are not beefy enough to handle bone impact. Considering my season last year I'm spending a little extra to get better components. Ashbys' #1 rule and most important arrow integrity.

 

[Kurt]

Component wise, no. The cost is marginal.

In terms of getting your bow to tune and shoot such arrows? It will not be a trivial task.

IME, having played with arrows 400-650 grains in weight (I know, not 'ashby weight') the higher the weight the harder they get to tune. Higher FOC is achieved at the expense of dynamic spine, which in turn makes your bow work harder to fire them straight. Also you no longer have relatively flat shooting arrow at distances under 30.

That being said my default arrows are weighing about 460grains without any added weight. I've blew through opposite side shoulder blades twice (not the knuckle, mind you) and don't seem to have issues with penetration (except when I make really awful shots).

I'm looking for performance on really awful shots too. Higher point weight stiffer spine. Higher FoC easier to tune. I went from FMJ 340s to Victory VAP 250s.

 

[DaWiz9578]

Since reading the ashby reports and sniffing some fairy dust I've paid more attention to shot placement/penetration on youtube hunting videos and you would be surprised at how many do not get pass through. And these are guys that I'm sure are shooting the latest and greatest fastest shiniest setup so speed and energy should be no problem. Yet half (not a statistically backed number, just illustrating it is more than you would think) the deer run away with an arrow hanging out of it. Poor tune, maybe. Mechanical or fixed, not sure many guys dont go into their setup. Just saying it does seem to trend whether people have experienced it or dont want to admit it.

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[peteherbst]

Since reading the ashby reports and sniffing some fairy dust I've paid more attention to shot placement/penetration on youtube hunting videos and you would be surprised at how many do not get pass through. And these are guys that I'm sure are shooting the latest and greatest fastest shiniest setup so speed and energy should be no problem. Yet half (not a statistically backed number, just illustrating it is more than you would think) the deer run away with an arrow hanging out of it. Poor tune, maybe. Mechanical or fixed, not sure many guys dont go into their setup. Just saying it does seem to trend whether people have experienced it or dont want to admit it.

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I’m in my 4th year bow hunting and haven’t gotten serious about it until the last couple years. This is the first year I’ve started to look into my setup.

I feel like I never got into the setup side of things because getting the other stuff was just more fun. But understanding how everything works together had been a fun process.

 

[michigandrake]

.

500 grain arrow at 225 fps with a 180 grain Grizzly broadhead. 150lb buck at 25 yards ..... three ribs, both lungs, opposite leg and then into a tree. You can see the broadhead tip broke on initial impact with the leg and then impacted again, breaking the bone.

One of Ashby's points is that a broadhead should neither bend nor break, but it should break before bending. Here is a good illustration of that.

 

[Recurveaholic]

View attachment 23925View attachment 23926.

500 grain arrow at 225 fps with a 180 grain Grizzly broadhead. 150lb buck at 25 yards ..... three ribs, both lungs, opposite leg and then into a tree. You can see the broadhead tip broke on initial impact with the leg and then impacted again, breaking the bone.

One of Ashby's points is that a broadhead should neither bend nor break, but it should break before bending. Here is a good illustration of that.

What was the poundage on the bow you were using??

 

[GTel]

I've been sniffing the ranch fairy dust for the past few months and have been spending 1 to 2 hours tuning each arrow like he said it would take. I bareshaft/nock paper tune with the Ethical RF field tip pack and have found that spine tuning has been the top item to adjust for each different tip weight. It's not just the spine number printed on the arrow but also the arrow length, since the spine gets stiffer as you make the length shorter. Nock tuning was also a new concept to me and has made a world of difference in grouping.

I've tested dozens of combinations of field tips ranging from 200 to 400 grains with both 300 and 340 spine arrows cut at every 1/4 inch length between 30" and 32". Every quarter inch you remove from an arrow makes a pretty significant difference in how the arrow shoots, so you can't just throw a few different weights on the same same length arrow and call it a day.

It's been a huge time commitment but I've gotten my setup to the point where 175g Bishop single bevels with 100g inserts are hitting silver dollar groups at 35yds. These arrows are 580g total with 20% foc compared to my original 400g arrows with 7% foc. Shot a doe last week with this new setup and the arrow was more than half buried in the dirt behind her. And the shot and impact were so quiet, I thought I missed, until she fell over where she stood. She looked like she didn't even know she was shot. My goal is to get up to 650-750g to see if I get the same effects on a shot that hits shoulder, which will inevitably happen... again.

Sent from up in a tree

 

[weekender21]

I’ve been breaking offside legs with my 532 grain arrows. With a fixed blade they are virtually unstoppable.

I’m shooting:

Easton Axis (.260 spine)
28” finished arrow
75 grain brass inserts
100 grain fixed blade

Bow stats:
70 pounds @ 28”

This year I’m planning to build a slightly heavier arrow with Iron Will HIT and footer components. Can’t wait.



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[Weldabeast]

I've been sniffing the ranch fairy dust for the past few months and have been spending 1 to 2 hours tuning each arrow like he said it would take. I bareshaft/nock paper tune with the Ethical RF field tip pack and have found that spine tuning has been the top item to adjust for each different tip weight. It's not just the spine number printed on the arrow but also the arrow length, since the spine gets stiffer as you make the length shorter. Nock tuning was also a new concept to me and has made a world of difference in grouping.

I've tested dozens of combinations of field tips ranging from 200 to 400 grains with both 300 and 340 spine arrows cut at every 1/4 inch length between 30" and 32". Every quarter inch you remove from an arrow makes a pretty significant difference in how the arrow shoots, so you can't just throw a few different weights on the same same length arrow and call it a day.

It's been a huge time commitment but I've gotten my setup to the point where 175g Bishop single bevels with 100g inserts are hitting silver dollar groups at 35yds. These arrows are 580g total with 20% foc compared to my original 400g arrows with 7% foc. Shot a doe last week with this new setup and the arrow was more than half buried in the dirt behind her. And the shot and impact were so quiet, I thought I missed, until she fell over where she stood. She looked like she didn't even know she was shot. My goal is to get up to 650-750g to see if I get the same effects on a shot that hits shoulder, which will inevitably happen... again.

Sent from up in a tree

I haven't cut any arrow but from my tinkering I was having trouble getting my 580gr to fly with my bow set at 70. I lowered the poundage down to 55-60 and everything started to shoot good. Since I plan to get to,or above, the bone breaking threshold weight I plan to drop it down to 40 (state minimum). With a lethal arrow no need for the heavy draw.....plus it's more pleasurable to shoot the low draw and hold back for longer and weird positions.....kinda like when your in the saddle

 

[Kurt]

View attachment 23925View attachment 23926.

500 grain arrow at 225 fps with a 180 grain Grizzly broadhead. 150lb buck at 25 yards ..... three ribs, both lungs, opposite leg and then into a tree. You can see the broadhead tip broke on initial impact with the leg and then impacted again, breaking the bone.

One of Ashby's points is that a broadhead should neither bend nor break, but it should break before bending. Here is a good illustration of that.

What were you shooting? It looks like a wooden shaft? Maybe time to add a footer. Ashbys' # 1 rule.... arrow integrity. Still great performance.

 

[GTel]

I haven't cut any arrow but from my tinkering I was having trouble getting my 580gr to fly with my bow set at 70. I lowered the poundage down to 55-60 and everything started to shoot good. Since I plan to get to,or above, the bone breaking threshold weight I plan to drop it down to 40 (state minimum). With a lethal arrow no need for the heavy draw.....plus it's more pleasurable to shoot the low draw and hold back for longer and weird positions.....kinda like when your in the saddle

What spine, length and grain tip are you shooting with that setup? The 30" 340 spine is what shot perfect for me with a 275g broadhead and the 32" 300 spine with 400g field tip. I'm shooting 60# 29" draw. The 315g broadheads won't be here until May so haven't got to test them.

Sent from up in a tree

 

[Allegheny Tom]

Ive been following Dr Ashby for a long time. I still have the print copy of the Natal Study among my literature someplace.
But I had not heard those podcasts.
They were excellent!
Thanks for posting them.


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[Kurt]

Have you tried tapered carbon shafts? They improve FOC and they correct fast coming out of the bow. I love my Grizzlystik shafts.

I nearly went with these arrows. I decided on a parallel small diameter shaft. I do like every thing about them.

 

[Weldabeast]

What spine, length and grain tip are you shooting with that setup? The 30" 340 spine is what shot perfect for me with a 275g broadhead and the 32" 300 spine with 400g field tip. I'm shooting 60# 29" draw. The 315g broadheads won't be here until May so haven't got to test them.

Sent from up in a tree

350spine @ 29
200gr insert
125 kill tip.
3 feathers
Nocturnal nock
I still gotta order some heavier heads....they seem to be back ordered pretty often

 

[Weldabeast]

Ive been following Dr Ashby for a long time. I still have the print copy of the Natal Study among my literature someplace.
But I had not heard those podcasts.
They were excellent!
Thanks for posting them.


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Opens up into other info he doesn't usually touch on in the seminars. Good stuff

 

[OspreyZB]

I understand wanting to be able to shoot through shoulders. It's why I shoot 2 blade fixed broadheads with my arrow weight close to 10 gpp. (Hunted with 560ish grain arrows pulling 58 pounds this season). I tested arrows up to 800+ grains and to me, anything over 10ish grains per pound didn't make sense for how I hunt. I want to be able to break bone when I inevitably hit it, but hitting where I'm aiming is much more important to me. The flatter trajectory of a lighter arrow gives me a little more margin for error when guessing yardages in the heat of the moment. I want to hit behind my pin or very close to it even if I shoot for 30 yards when the deer is actually 36. Or when I have an ancient, string jumping whitetail on high alert at 20 yards. I'd rather hit where I'm aiming and only get 10 inches of penetration than hit 4 inches high or low and get a pass through.

 

[michigandrake]

What was the poundage on the bow you were using??

50lb PSE compound ..... 2009 Bowmadness XS

 

[GTel]

I want to hit behind my pin or very close to it even if I shoot for 30 yards when the deer is actually 36. Or when I have an ancient, string jumping whitetail on high alert at 20 yards. I'd rather hit where I'm aiming and only get 10 inches of penetration than hit 4 inches high or low and get a pass through.

This is why I started using the Garmin Xero sight a few years ago. Helps me put the arrow right on the pin at any yardage with any weight arrow and eliminates estimating the wrong yardage. This is even more critical with heavy arrows, as you point out. The EZV site would probably help a lot with that as well. The same thing could be accomplished with a single pin slider and range finder, but that was just too much adjusting for me during the heat of the moment.

Some people say you can mitigate string jump with heavier arrows as they quiet the bow down. Personally, I need too see this for myself after shooting a dozen or so deer. Based on RF videos where he puts the camera next to the target, it seems more like the noise of the arrow approaching is what makes them jump. I switched to feathers to see if that helps quiet down the arrow flight.

Sent from up in a tree

 

[peteherbst]

This is why I started using the Garmin Xero sight a few years ago. Helps me put the arrow right on the pin at any yardage with any weight arrow and eliminates estimating the wrong yardage. The EZV site would probably help a lot with that as well. The same thing could be accomplished with a single pin slider and range finder, but that was just too much adjusting for me during the heat of the moment.

Some people say you can mitigate string jump with heavier arrows as they quiet the bow down. Personally, I need too see this for myself after shooting a dozen or so deer. Based on RF videos where he puts the camera next to the target, it seems more like the noise of the arrow approaching is what makes them jump. I switched to feathers to see if that helps quiet down the arrow flight.

Sent from up in a tree

DIY Sportsman has some good arrow noise videos when he reviewed the FOB.