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Growing frustrated / single bevel broadheads

C

Cobra

New Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2021
Messages
15
I am need of some others experiences. I am newer hunter (3 years) who got right into saddle hunting. I love it I used to use a climber and it was miserable moving it around. With the saddle I’m in the right positions and getting on deer. I have a tendency to aim higher than I should (1st and main problem) what I was curious about though is I hit a deer last night. Looked like it hit high behind back shoulder then went into opposite left shoulder. Slightly quartering away. I shoot a grizzly stik samurai single bevel. Arrow was about 12 inches in then broke off at about the 6-8 inch mark. I went back this morning because there was no blood at impact sight and couldn’t find anything at night. Then it was 8 hours of meticulous tiny blood drops every 10 ft almost invisible. I found the arrow because of lighten nok. The only good blood was one pile where it looked like he snorted it out. Then back to tiny sparce drops. This went for about 70 yards until he ran across a road into a grass field. The road and grass had nothing and we grid searched with no results. I hate this and don’t want it to happen again. I have been given advice to change broad head to bigger wider holes however I don’t think I would have made it as far through the deer if it weren’t for the broadhead design I shoot 55 lbs. We were all convinced the deer is dead somewhere based off the pile where he stopped for a minute and snorted (obviously a guess) but the wound did not produce much external blood. Before I change I need to start remembering to aim lower. I have tendency to aim center mass. But I didn’t know if others had experience with poor single bevel blood trails. Do the holes tend to plug up more because of thin slice? Do you get good blood trails with low exit wound with single bevel? Also is two non recovered deer something others have done. It’s a **** feeling. I hunt in thick areas that’s why the saddle is great so I can’t really watch the deer run off it’s out of sight immediately especially right now I’m early season so blood trail is all I have to go on. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
Cobra said:
I am need of some others experiences. I am newer hunter (3 years) who got right into saddle hunting. I love it I used to use a climber and it was miserable moving it around. With the saddle I’m in the right positions and getting on deer. I have a tendency to aim higher than I should (1st and main problem) what I was curious about though is I hit a deer last night. Looked like it hit high behind back shoulder then went into opposite left shoulder. Slightly quartering away. I shoot a grizzly stik samurai single bevel. Arrow was about 12 inches in then broke off at about the 6-8 inch mark. I went back this morning because there was no blood at impact sight and couldn’t find anything at night. Then it was 8 hours of meticulous tiny blood drops every 10 ft almost invisible. I found the arrow because of lighten nok. The only good blood was one pile where it looked like he snorted it out. Then back to tiny sparce drops. This went for about 70 yards until he ran across a road into a grass field. The road and grass had nothing and we grid searched with no results. I hate this and don’t want it to happen again. I have been given advice to change broad head to bigger wider holes however I don’t think I would have made it as far through the deer if it weren’t for the broadhead design I shoot 55 lbs. We were all convinced the deer is dead somewhere based off the pile where he stopped for a minute and snorted (obviously a guess) but the wound did not produce much external blood. Before I change I need to start remembering to aim lower. I have tendency to aim center mass. But I didn’t know if others had experience with poor single bevel blood trails. Do the holes tend to plug up more because of thin slice? Do you get good blood trails with low exit wound with single bevel? Also is two non recovered deer something others have done. It’s a **** feeling. I hunt in thick areas that’s why the saddle is great so I can’t really watch the deer run off it’s out of sight immediately especially right now I’m early season so blood trail is all I have to go on. Thanks in advance for your input.
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Deer that are shot with anything, even a field point, in the right spot, will bleed. A good single bevel will bleed just as good as any broadhead in my opinion. Will it bleed as much as an expandable or a broadhead with bleeders? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.

Deer often do not bleed for a lot reasons. Sometimes fat gets plugged in the hole. Sometimes the blood fills up the body cavity below the entry and exit hole and doesnt come out until its 100 yards away..

First off, in this situation.. You should get some friends and do progressively larger semi circles from the last blood you found. I find deer that run after a hit will often instinctually run in a semi circle to try to get upwind of the danger they percieved and look back at somepoint to see where the danger came from. That or make an L shaped movement, taking a hard turn.

I have shot deer with single bevel in the heart that barely bled and found it 60 yards off in a bush piled up because I just kept doing larger and larger semi circles in the direction it ran.

Second... You may have hit the area above the lungs and below the spine where there isnt any vital organ and not much blood is produced from that shot.. its likely the deer survived that shot.

Also.. I dont think aiming center mass is a good shot. You should always be aiming for the heart. Left and right, up and down, a few inches away from the heart is always a quick kill.

Lastly, We all have or will someday make a bad shot.. Go back home and practice and learn from your mistake. Drive the next deer in its heart. A heart shot deer dies and it dies quick..

Dont get too hung up on it, retune, and get back out there!
 
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in my experience blood trails vary widely no matter what type of broadhead you use shot to shot and deer to deer. ive used rage expandables, g5, slick tricks and amazon knock offs of just about every major brand broadhead you can think of. with all of them ive had deer bleed like crazy and deer that i had to thank the lord i saw where they crashed cause i couldnt find blood to save my life even though shot placement was consistent. before you bail on the broadhead i would focus more on shot placement and waiting for closer shots. the more consistently you get double lung or heart, and the more you limit the range at which you take shots the less important blood trails become because you increase the odds that the deer is dropping in sight or at least where you can very easily walk the direction they were headed and they did not make it far. just my 2 cents.
 
are you shooting a compound or a recurve/longbow?

i always suggest that beginning compound hunters shoot a basic middle of the road arrow (medium weight, standard diameter carbon, basic insert, and then screw a 100 or 125 grain 3 blade broadhead on it (i'd suggest a fixed blade....qad exodus being my favorite....if they fly for you))
 
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Curious how far out the shots were. I might have missed it but didn’t see it in the original post. I am also new to bowhunting and saddle hunting so I am interested in more experienced opinions. I’m shooting 65 pounds but I don’t think that’s a huge difference from what you are at and both my shots have been pass through and buried halfway into dry dirt, they were 19 and 15 yards.
 
Tr33_n1nj@ said:
I also did not see an arrow weight mentioned. I think a major part of getting that full penetration and not having to worry about bones is having a heavier arrow.
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I’m not shooting a heavy arrow right now at all by any standard, though I do have a heavier one ordered. I’m trying to cancel that order at this point. I’m firing the most basic arrow that fit me with no wraps, inserts, etc. and a 100 grain broadhead, fixed.
 
I tried the single bevel thing, and it just didn’t work for me. Went back to my trust old Muzzy 3-blade broadheads that my dad’s been shooting for decades. They fly true and are plenty strong and sharp to kill every deer I shoot.
If I were hunting elk or big pigs, I might feel different, but pushing single bevels for whitetails is a bit like pushing .300 Win Mag over something like a .270 or .243 for deer. Sure, it packs a bigger punch (in theory), but the “lesser” thing works great for the application too (and without many of the challenges, such as tuning for broadheads and recoil for rifles, to continue that analogy).
 
TNbowhunter said:
I tried the single bevel thing, and it just didn’t work for me. Went back to my trust old Muzzy 3-blade broadheads that my dad’s been shooting for decades. They fly true and are plenty strong and sharp to kill every deer I shoot.
If I were hunting elk or big pigs, I might feel different, but pushing single bevels for whitetails is a bit like pushing .300 Win Mag over something like a .270 or .243 for deer. Sure, it packs a bigger punch (in theory), but the “lesser” thing works great for the application too (and without many of the challenges, such as tuning for broadheads and recoil for rifles, to continue that analogy).
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That’s what I’m shooting, didn’t want to admit it since they aren’t heavy enough/expensive enough/sharp enough.
 
Do you mind sharing your arrow weight? Also, good on you for the want to change something to help.

You are also spot on to assume a huge mechanical wouldn't have penetrated as far. That is 100% correct.

Any single hole high lung shots, with any BH, won't always cause good blood trails. Even with something like the grim reaper carni-four. The blood is mostly just filling up inside the cavity. Typical to have just drops until the lungs are full & it starts coming out the nose & mouth. If they are running that can be a good distance.

The best blood trails I get are one's that are more into the V & two holes. Doesn't matter the BH. I wouldn't recommend hugging tight into the shoulder vs behind the crease, unless you have the arrow weight made for it. 55lbs is more than enough if the arrow weight is up. Trajectory will decline, but you'd be more forgiving, quieter, more likely 2 holes on shots like the one you encountered. Even if you where to go the stupid extreme heavy & pay really close attention to ranging prior to the shot, you'd be full proof out to 40 yards easy. I'm not saying you need to go stupid heavy, but guessing heavier would help.

Imo, a heavy arrow, good single bevel, & punched through the V produces a better blood trail than a light weight arrow with a huge expandable, hit behind the crease. High or low. Not to mention they die faster.

Going heavy has given me the highest recovery rate over high poundage, speed, or BH selection.

I know a lot of people hate heavy, but it has a lot of killing benefits as long as you know the limitations & pay extra attention to ranging yardage.

Fact is, if you were shooting heavy & that single bevel you would be eating that deer.
 
kbetts said:
I'm going to cut through all of the noise for you.



It had nothing to do with the broadhead.
Click to expand...

I concur with this.
other questions might by sharpness, but I’ve found that shot placement and arrow tuning have more to do with these things. I’m new to but talking with a lot of hunters folks been killing deer with pretty much anything in the way of bh if placed correctly
 
jonkytron said:
.........Second... You may have hit the area above the lungs and below the spine where there isnt any vital organ and not much blood is produced from that shot.. its likely the deer survived that shot...........
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There is no such place as "no man's land", or a dead spot as some believe. It's a fallacy that there is an area below the spine that has no vitals. Inflated lungs actually go slightly above the spine.
I'll find the link to the YouTube video from Masterpiece Targets. They dissect a deer layer by layer and actually inflate the lungs.

Need more info from the OP but my guess on the limited details is he barely clipped one lung. If that's the case, that deer could survive. They can survive a one lung hit.
 
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Here's the shorter video from Masterpiece that shows the lungs. There is another, much more detailed video that shoes him step by step removing the hide, removes flesh, reveals ribs, lungs, heart, liver etc.
Every hunter should be required to watch, no STUDY those videos. They are excellent for novices and veteran hunters.


Here's the longer video
 
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Another thing to consider is if the shot is close to the shoulder or through it the movement of the scapula and shoulder covers the hole and really impedes blood leaking from it. Always aim for the bottom third of the deer to allow for some leeway if they drop. I shot a doe a week ago and hit higher than I wanted,hit high shoulder but went right through the scapula and out mid body. There was not much blood but she was dead in 40 yards. I love single bevels and don't think I am going back to three blade heads.
 
Without a pass thru you get scant blood trail. The deer runs far as it fills up the chest cavity.
Liver hits are like this as well.

One time my son shot a doe gun hunting in snow from a treestand.
He got down and couldn't find it.
I went over to meet with him and he told me he thought he missed because he had already looked where the deer should of been.
I had him climb the tree and direct me to the deer. It was there. He drifted off course as he walked out.
Anyhow I tell everyone, if you do nothing else watch that deer run away and pick a tree or bush any marker where you LAST saw the deer.
There are times of little blood trail where this pays off big.

Time to go to work.
Good luck hunting guys.
 
I would try to search again. Last year I hit a buck and there was no blood for 50 yards. Then lots of blood for 75 yards then it was a speck here and there. I went back and hung these little reflectors with clips from last good blood to each speck. When I couldn’t find another speck I looked back at the reflectors then headed straight in the direction away. No more blood but found him dead. Hope this helps.
Also I highly recommend you shoot a silhouette target. Either paint it on like John Eberhart does or cut out of cardboard. That has made a huge difference for me with aiming.
 
High shoulder shots are tough especially if it didn’t exit, they never bleed much cause the chest cavity has to fill almost all the way up for blood to come out of the entrance hole. I agree with others, the broadhead isn’t the problem.

Also if you’re having a problem hitting deer high, remember to “aim for the exit”meaning don’t think about where you’re gonna hit the deer on the entrance side, think about where that arrow is gonna exit the opposite side and that’s your aiming point. Also remember to pivot from your hips when aiming, do not drop your forward arm once you’re at full draw. That could also be contributing to you hitting high.
 
Hi all,

thank you for all the responses. First I 100% agree with the shot placement improvement. I wanted to emphasize that in my opener to this. It’s not my accuracy it’s where I put my pin in the heat of the moment. I have never been as accurate as I am this year. It’s my placement possibly target panic. I know that needs-to be fixed. I paper tuned my bow this year and it’s the best it has shot ( the bow). I obviously need to add some sort of check before I release for exit wound.
Other info people wanted: it was 25 yards I shoot victory vforce sport 400 with 100 gr gold tip insert and 125 gr grizzly stik samurai overkill. Right bevel and right fletchings.
As far as the search I hung tape up until the road. The road is about 10 yards wide the field is about 100 yards wide we checked each deer trail in the field and 50 yards up and down the road and the forest on the other side of the field for hours with nothing. I am in MA where dogs are not allowed which would solve so many problems.
the main point of my question is I feel as though the lethality will come down to the shot. But I have seen buddy’s with high shots with rage bh and it’s looks like a blood bath and they have a good blood trail. As someone who doesn’t have years of testing bh I didn’t know if the single bevel don’t leave as much room for error (blood trail) on a bad shot.

Again this is not looking for a fix for bad shooting. It’s 100% on me. I just feel as though I have seen a lot of dead deer with wound holes where my arrow went. Yet the blood trails make it almost impossible to track and I didn’t know if a bigger hole which might sacrifice penetration is a better trade off because you may track longer but atleast you can track.
In the end though I want the most ethical kill possible.
 
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