Growing frustrated / single bevel broadheads

[jiwhite86]

Agreed. We are shooting for the exit. But the exit point dictates the aiming (entry) point.

Agree. For my simple brain though, it's easier for me to not even think about the entry point, and "look through them" to the exit point. I know it's not the way to teach everyone, and probably isn't the best way to explain it, but it works for me.

 

[BTaylor]

Agree. For my simple brain though, it's easier for me to not even think about the entry point, and "look through them" to the exit point. I know it's not the way to teach everyone, and probably isn't the best way to explain it, but it works for me.

I think it is the very best way to teach and explain it.

 

[Jtaylor]

I am need of some others experiences. I am newer hunter (3 years) who got right into saddle hunting. I love it I used to use a climber and it was miserable moving it around. With the saddle I’m in the right positions and getting on deer. I have a tendency to aim higher than I should (1st and main problem) what I was curious about though is I hit a deer last night. Looked like it hit high behind back shoulder then went into opposite left shoulder. Slightly quartering away. I shoot a grizzly stik samurai single bevel. Arrow was about 12 inches in then broke off at about the 6-8 inch mark. I went back this morning because there was no blood at impact sight and couldn’t find anything at night. Then it was 8 hours of meticulous tiny blood drops every 10 ft almost invisible. I found the arrow because of lighten nok. The only good blood was one pile where it looked like he snorted it out. Then back to tiny sparce drops. This went for about 70 yards until he ran across a road into a grass field. The road and grass had nothing and we grid searched with no results. I hate this and don’t want it to happen again. I have been given advice to change broad head to bigger wider holes however I don’t think I would have made it as far through the deer if it weren’t for the broadhead design I shoot 55 lbs. We were all convinced the deer is dead somewhere based off the pile where he stopped for a minute and snorted (obviously a guess) but the wound did not produce much external blood. Before I change I need to start remembering to aim lower. I have tendency to aim center mass. But I didn’t know if others had experience with poor single bevel blood trails. Do the holes tend to plug up more because of thin slice? Do you get good blood trails with low exit wound with single bevel? Also is two non recovered deer something others have done. It’s a **** feeling. I hunt in thick areas that’s why the saddle is great so I can’t really watch the deer run off it’s out of sight immediately especially right now I’m early season so blood trail is all I have to go on. Thanks in advance for your input.

It's not the broadhead, it's in your head. You're a self admitted newer hunter who shoots high. Fix your shooting high issue. I've blamed broadheads, bows, twigs, deer ducking the arrow, etc. Ultimately when you release you need to be 100% confident of the shot and if you're not, don't release.
There are so many factors other than a broadhead that effect a shot and ultimately a dead deer that are harder for us to admit. Were you nervous? Was it a little too dark and you didn't see the limb through the peep? Was your shot angle weird? Was the deer quartering at an odd angle? Was the shoulder back?
If you feel bad about the situation, as a newer hunter take shots you're 100% confident in with no doubts after the release.
Losing deer myself eats me up and until I came to grips with my abilities and sucked up some pride, I was losing a couple every season too.
I'm not saying you won't ever lose a deer because there are factors that are seemingly uncontrollable. Make sure you're taking shots ethically and to the best of your abilities so you have 100% confidence the deer will be dead at the end of the blood trail.

 

[kyler1945]

Bowhunting results in a lot of missed and wounded deer. Even for stone cold killers.

I shoot thousands of shots a year. I get lots of opportunity on game. I take high percentage shots. I usually don’t get rattled. I generally speaking, don’t take long shots at whitetail.

I have shot deer with muzzy, nap thunderhead, nap spitfire, rage, iron will, qad exodus, magnus, German kinetic.


All these facts make differences at the margins. What remains true, regardless of skill, composure, shot selection, broadhead selection, is that you will miss. Either completely or wound em.


Practice, have a tuned bow, have a tuned you, don’t take long shots, don’t take unbalanced uncomfortable unsteady shots, have razor sharp broadheads.

Then live with the results that you may miss or wound as many as half of the deer you release an arrow at. If you can’t accept that, one of two things needs to happen:

Quit bowhunting.

Or, practice more, tune bow tighter, tune you tighter, take even shorter shots, take more balanced, steady, comfortable shots, and sharpen your broadheads more. Then get way better at huntjng so you can shoot way more deer.

If you haven’t wounded or missed a bunch of deer, it’s because you’re a new or very poor hunter. There is nothing wrong with being either. There’s also nothing wrong, in my opinion, with being a very experienced hunter who’s missed and wounded a lot of deer. It’s annoying to me that there’s a strong pressure to lie about this.

 

[BTaylor]

Practice, have a tuned bow, have a tuned you, don’t take long shots, don’t take unbalanced uncomfortable unsteady shots, have razor sharp broadheads.

If you haven’t wounded or missed a bunch of deer, it’s because you’re a new or very poor hunter. There is nothing wrong with being either. There’s also nothing wrong, in my opinion, with being a very experienced hunter who’s missed and wounded a lot of deer. It’s annoying to me that there’s a strong pressure to lie about this.

These 2 points can not be over emphasized. The only thing I would add is that every time you shoot at game, the critter gets a vote in the outcome. There will be shots that you execute perfectly but the animal's vote prevents a perfect outcome. Understand and accept this reality but dont use it as a crutch. You will know if and when you dont execute a good shot, own that as well.

 

[kyler1945]

Arrows released, and results

Quick and dirty details on arrows released at live targets for 2021-2022 season. Will add as I go. 1 - Bull Elk. 550lbs+ Broadside, 25 yards, 10' above me. 520gr arrow, 1.5" wide COC head. Full passthrough, entrance mid body, exit slightly rearward. Decent blood from shot to 50 yards short...

saddlehunter.com

Do I like saying I’ve missed and or wounded deer? No, of course not.

It sucks every time.

But I think there’s value in pointing out to new hunters that someone who’s been doing it for 25 years, and shot at dozens of deer, and is probably a better hunter and shot than 90% of other hunters, will miss. A lot. Stuff happens.

Get used to it, or find a different hobby.

This doesn’t mean I don’t strive to get better. But a little honesty will go a long way here I think.

 

[Allegheny Tom]

I think that passing up shots is helpful towards learning to maintain calmness in the presence of deer. I understand...a new hunter really wants to punch a tag and they put a lot of pressure on themselves. Pressure often leads to desperation and impatience to take the shot. There's no shame in passing it up.
Revel in the moment of having a deer right in your lap. Practice composure. Mentally execute the perfect shot. Top athletes practice mental imagery of perfect execution.
In the meanwhile you'll learn some valuable lessons about deer behavior. Watch and learn their body language, food preferences, how they interact with each other, etc.
All this will have a calming influence on the shooter. The more interactions that you have with deer, the more you'll keep your crap together at the moment of truth.

 

[kyler1945]

I think that passing up shots is helpful towards learning to maintain calmness in the presence of deer. I understand...a new hunter really wants to punch a tag and they put a lot of pressure on themselves. Pressure often leads to desperation and impatience to take the shot. There's no shame in passing it up.
Revel in the moment of having a deer right in your lap. Practice composure. Mentally execute the perfect shot. Top athletes practice mental imagery of perfect execution.
In the meanwhile you'll learn some valuable lessons about deer behavior. Watch and learn their body language, food preferences, how they interact with each other, etc.
All this will have a calming influence on the shooter. The more interactions that you have with deer, the more you'll keep your crap together at the moment of truth.

I like this. Alot.

 

[weekender21]

I'm going to cut through all of the noise for you.



It had nothing to do with the broadhead.

Or arrow weight!


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[dalton916]

Arrows released, and results

Quick and dirty details on arrows released at live targets for 2021-2022 season. Will add as I go. 1 - Bull Elk. 550lbs+ Broadside, 25 yards, 10' above me. 520gr arrow, 1.5" wide COC head. Full passthrough, entrance mid body, exit slightly rearward. Decent blood from shot to 50 yards short...

saddlehunter.com

Do I like saying I’ve missed and or wounded deer? No, of course not.

It sucks every time.

But I think there’s value in pointing out to new hunters that someone who’s been doing it for 25 years, and shot at dozens of deer, and is probably a better hunter and shot than 90% of other hunters, will miss. A lot. Stuff happens.

Get used to it, or find a different hobby.

This doesn’t mean I don’t strive to get better. But a little honesty will go a long way here I think.

I shot a doe one time in GA. The shot was in the “no man’s land” or “above the lungs and below the spine” nonsense that doesn’t exist. I beat myself up pretty good for all the reason you’ve mentioned in this thread in the tree before I climbed down to go see how bad it was. To this day that’s the best blood trail I’ve ever seen in the woods. Sliced the blood pipeline that runs under the spine. Horror movie producers would call that blood trail “too much”

Sometimes you get lucky.

 

[weekender21]

I am need of some others experiences. I am newer hunter (3 years) who got right into saddle hunting. I love it I used to use a climber and it was miserable moving it around. With the saddle I’m in the right positions and getting on deer. I have a tendency to aim higher than I should (1st and main problem) what I was curious about though is I hit a deer last night. Looked like it hit high behind back shoulder then went into opposite left shoulder. Slightly quartering away. I shoot a grizzly stik samurai single bevel. Arrow was about 12 inches in then broke off at about the 6-8 inch mark. I went back this morning because there was no blood at impact sight and couldn’t find anything at night. Then it was 8 hours of meticulous tiny blood drops every 10 ft almost invisible. I found the arrow because of lighten nok. The only good blood was one pile where it looked like he snorted it out. Then back to tiny sparce drops. This went for about 70 yards until he ran across a road into a grass field. The road and grass had nothing and we grid searched with no results. I hate this and don’t want it to happen again. I have been given advice to change broad head to bigger wider holes however I don’t think I would have made it as far through the deer if it weren’t for the broadhead design I shoot 55 lbs. We were all convinced the deer is dead somewhere based off the pile where he stopped for a minute and snorted (obviously a guess) but the wound did not produce much external blood. Before I change I need to start remembering to aim lower. I have tendency to aim center mass. But I didn’t know if others had experience with poor single bevel blood trails. Do the holes tend to plug up more because of thin slice? Do you get good blood trails with low exit wound with single bevel? Also is two non recovered deer something others have done. It’s a **** feeling. I hunt in thick areas that’s why the saddle is great so I can’t really watch the deer run off it’s out of sight immediately especially right now I’m early season so blood trail is all I have to go on. Thanks in advance for your input.

These replies have pretty well covered it all very well, lots of good advice.

The only reason I’d recommend switching broadheads is if you’ve lost confidence and don’t think you’ll get it back with the heads you’re shooting. You MUST be confident in your shooting and equipment.


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[BTaylor]

These replies have pretty well covered it all very well, lots of good advice.

The only reason I’d recommend switching broadheads is if you’ve lost confidence and don’t think you’ll get it back with the heads you’re shooting. You MUST be confident in your shooting and equipment.


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Early on once I started figuring out how to kill some deer, I had put together a string of 17 consecutive kills which were all recovered 100 yards or less. During the summer I decided I really liked the look a particular new head and was going to change. I proceeded to miss the next 14 deer I shot at. None of those shots were further than 22 yards. The 14th was on the first morning of a hunt just after legal shooting light. I immediately got down and went back to camp. I had a dozen arrows in the quiver and bow case combined, all with those heads. I unscrewed every one of those heads and walked down to the river and threw the whole pile in. Luckily I had a pack of thunderheads in my bag and proceeded to put those together for the afternoon hunt. I dont remember exactly how long or how many deer died before the next miss or lost deer but it was a a bunch. Confidence in your setup is critical to success and lack of absolute confidence can certainly breed failure.

 

[DedicatedShooter]

Do you mind sharing your arrow weight? Also, good on you for the want to change something to help.

You are also spot on to assume a huge mechanical wouldn't have penetrated as far. That is 100% correct.

Any single hole high lung shots, with any BH, won't always cause good blood trails. Even with something like the grim reaper carni-four. The blood is mostly just filling up inside the cavity. Typical to have just drops until the lungs are full & it starts coming out the nose & mouth. If they are running that can be a good distance.

The best blood trails I get are one's that are more into the V & two holes. Doesn't matter the BH. I wouldn't recommend hugging tight into the shoulder vs behind the crease, unless you have the arrow weight made for it. 55lbs is more than enough if the arrow weight is up. Trajectory will decline, but you'd be more forgiving, quieter, more likely 2 holes on shots like the one you encountered. Even if you where to go the stupid extreme heavy & pay really close attention to ranging prior to the shot, you'd be full proof out to 40 yards easy. I'm not saying you need to go stupid heavy, but guessing heavier would help.

Imo, a heavy arrow, good single bevel, & punched through the V produces a better blood trail than a light weight arrow with a huge expandable, hit behind the crease. High or low. Not to mention they die faster.

Going heavy has given me the highest recovery rate over high poundage, speed, or BH selection.

I know a lot of people hate heavy, but it has a lot of killing benefits as long as you know the limitations & pay extra attention to ranging yardage.

Fact is, if you were shooting heavy & that single bevel you would be eating that deer.

First year back to bowhunting after 12 years away (many of those out of the country). What's the criteria for a heavy arrow? I weighed mine on my reloading scale and I'm at 385 grains. 57lb draw weight. Where does that fit into the weight spectrum?

 

[Weldabeast]

First year back to bowhunting after 12 years away (many of those out of the country). What's the criteria for a heavy arrow? I weighed mine on my reloading scale and I'm at 385 grains. 57lb draw weight. Where does that fit into the weight spectrum?

The everyman's guide to killing a deer with a compound bow...

Will an expandable broadhead on a light arrow kill a deer? Yes. Can you kill a deer at 50 yards with a bow? Yes. Is a 7 pin sight useful? Sure. Is the Ranch Fairy annoying? Yes. Is Ashby god? Sometimes it seems that way. Can everyone just shut up? I've learned the answer is no. Ok...

saddlehunter.com

 

[wyetterp]

First year back to bowhunting after 12 years away (many of those out of the country). What's the criteria for a heavy arrow? I weighed mine on my reloading scale and I'm at 385 grains. 57lb draw weight. Where does that fit into the weight spectrum?

You're definitely on the light side. Nothing wrong with that as long as you know its capabilities.

For me....I consider anything under 500gr as light, 500-625 as mid & over 625 entering into heavy.

 

[Iron_llama]

After hunting enthusiastically for years I find myself suddenly far more educated on shot placement than I had been. I've always accepted the "behind the shoulder" notion, with the result of gut shot deer, shot too high, and a less-than-100% recovery rate. I had never heard of "shooting for the exit" or "vital V" before hanging around here. I expect that my future shots will be better placed and consequently more effective.

 

[weekender21]

First year back to bowhunting after 12 years away (many of those out of the country). What's the criteria for a heavy arrow? I weighed mine on my reloading scale and I'm at 385 grains. 57lb draw weight. Where does that fit into the weight spectrum?

Does 385 grains include your broadhead? I’m shooting 530 grains at 60 pounds but that’s a way above average arrow weight, especially for 60 pounds.

There’s a bit of a craze to go super heavy in the past few years. Mainly unnecessary for deer But MUCH BETTER than too light in my opinion.

If you’re under 400 I’d consider that pretty light, even at 57 pounds. Categorizing weight range is very subjective but for someone shooting 57 pounds I’d say less that 400 is light, 400-450 is mid range and everything over 450 is heavy and definitely heavier than your average deer hunter shooting that draw weight. This range excludes the Ashby craze, that’s a bit of a rabbit hole.


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[Apex7]

At 55 pounds I would definitely stay away from the shoulder. I shot 55 pounds also and carry 4 different broadheads and if hit in the vitals it's a dead deer. Center punch the lungs and stay away from the shoulder and you will be eating venison.

 

[kbetts]

Where is the emogi of beating the dead horse?