Heavy arrow bone breaking results on large deer

[Wmihunter]

For those that have broke through heavy bone (humerus or knuckle near humerus) please provide:
rough arrow speed
Arrow weight
broadhead type
rough weight of the deer (estimate).

I’m gathering some data...thought this would be helpful to others


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[tailgunner]

450 grains total. easton axis 300 .100 grain montec.296 feet per second cronnoed.through the scapula and spine of a blacktail buck not sure the weight.clean through a bull elk over 800 pounds through 1 rib

 

[1simplemann]

I completely shattered the knuckle of a 180lb mature 150" 10 pt. and came out his belly. My set up was the only reason that I was able to kill that buck. Plus I have been thru the shoulders of numerous other deer. I can give rough estimates. 72lb Bowtech Experience @ 29"DL. 250 fps w/ 625 gr-ish arrow ( I didn't actually weigh it) single bevel Strickland Helix 125gr. BH

 

[Wmihunter]

I completely shattered the knuckle of a 180lb mature 150" 10 pt. and came out his belly. My set up was the only reason that I was able to kill that buck. Plus I have been thru the shoulders of numerous other deer. I can give rough estimates. 72lb Bowtech Experience @ 29"DL. 250 fps w/ 625 gr-ish arrow ( I didn't actually weigh it) single bevel Strickland Helix 125gr. BH

That is the performance I’m looking for! I am leaning hard towards the iron will single bevel 4 blade. I am told the bleeder doesn’t really impede penetration even in large bones but I’m a bit nervous


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[Exhumis]

Took a mature doe 2019 season, entered through left shoulder and exited right shoulder blowing the head off the humerus and lodged in a tree.
Speed maybe 240fps? not sure but that’s the ezv insert I was using. My bow was set at 70lbs with 31” draw.
550 gr total weight
Magnus buzzcut broadhead
Black eagle carnivore arrow
Doe was prolly 160lbs which is big for where I live.

 

[Wmihunter]

Took a mature doe 2019 season, entered through left shoulder and exited right shoulder blowing the head off the humerus and lodged in a tree.
Speed maybe 240fps? not sure but that’s the ezv insert I was using. My bow was set at 70lbs with 31” draw.
550 gr total weight
Magnus buzzcut broadhead
Black eagle carnivore arrow
Doe was prolly 160lbs which is big for where I live.

Was it the 4 or 2 blade buzzcut?


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[Exhumis]

Was it the 4 or 2 blade buzzcut?


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Stingers so 4 blade? Has the two large blades with the two small bleeder blades. No damage to the broad head at all btw? Love these broad heads. Just sharped it up and returned it to service.

 

[SnakeEater]

2 different buck, probably both around 150#. Both severed humorous bones, one near side one far side. 550gr arrow with 22% foc going about 240fps and kudu point broadheads.

 

[Wmihunter]

2 different buck, probably both around 150#. Both severed humorous bones, one near side one far side. 550gr arrow with 22% foc going about 240fps and kudu point broadheads.

Those kudus perform! I had one sever a spine and bury to the fletching. Looking at iron wills for a more durable blade


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[BTaylor]

That is the performance I’m looking for! I am leaning hard towards the iron will single bevel 4 blade. I am told the bleeder doesn’t really impede penetration even in large bones but I’m a bit nervous


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Dont be. That head on an arrow 400 grains or higher travelling 240 fps or higher is going to have plenty of penetration for any deer you encounter. Bump that weight up north of 450 and speed to 265-270 and you will shoot through pretty much anything in NA that you ever hunt, more times than not. All of that assuming your bow tune is dialed.

 

[michigandrake]

2 clean humerus breaks, opposite leg, on bucks in the 140 lbs class, and an opposite shoulder joint on a 100lb doe .... this one did not break bone but rather torqued the ball and socket open. 500-525 grain arrow with a Grizzly single bevel going 225ish fps. Single bevel heads leave tool marks on the bones they don't completely break. I've seen a few chips and chunks taken off on glancing blows. The clean breaks are the bones that get center punched.

 

[Wmihunter]

Dont be. That head on an arrow 400 grains or higher travelling 240 fps or higher is going to have plenty of penetration for any deer you encounter. Bump that weight up north of 450 and speed to 265-270 and you will shoot through pretty much anything in NA that you ever hunt, more times than not. All of that assuming your bow tune is dialed.

I know it will pass through 90/100 times in just gathering data of arrow weight/speed/head type vs large bones


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[Weldabeast]

I've only taken 2 so not the most experienced but the first broke 3 ribs and fractured (did not break into 2 pieces but cracked vertical) scapula. The deer turned away from me at the sound of the shot and the arrow entered behind the last rib and traveled lengthwise down throu the body. I didn't hit any vital organs but the arrow hit the scapula and redirected direction of travel and the arrow came out the neck maybe 8 inches below where the head connects to the neck. Cut the main tubes and I had high velocity blood spray 10ft up on the cypress trees. She ran 20yds and fell over. Small deer put the arrow was fully inside her body for easy 24 inches. 580gr

The other was textbook broadside and I made it throu without contacting any bone. She ran 15 feet and stopped not knowing what just happened. She got dizzy and fell over less than 20yds from impact. What surprised me was she looked like she been shot with a rifle.... Entrance and exit lungs were all jello bloodshot like a gunshot....760gr

 

[phatkaw]

The first picture is a Rage Hypodermic that literally hit and bounced off of that bucks leg. (see the cut in second picture in front of my stabilizer)
Luckily he ran past and stopped and turned around to see what the heck hit him. My second arrow took out his wind pipe and jugular...

So, obviously my setup isn’t eggzacktly bone crushing @ 353gr and roughly 285 - 295 fps...

*edit* I'm definitely going to follow this thread.

 

[mattsteg]

What about non-heavy arrows and flappers? Shattered a decent ~150 lb doe's humerus with a Rage Trypan a couple of years ago. To make it worse I was only pulling 50 pounds.

There's a lot of luck involved with exactly where on the bone you hit, and people are going to reinforce what they already believe. The optimal setup is pretty compellingly a heavy, 2-blade, single bevel and all that - but you can still screw that up and you can also get a surprising amount of bone-smashing penetration even with lighter* setups.

*obviously shooting a long draw and a relatively fast bow matters here, but we all go chasing changes that make no where near the impact that we pretend they do.

 

[Spence71]

There’s a great podcast interview someone posted up here recently. I’ll find that too. But check out

Ashby Bowhunting Reports — Ashby Bowhunting Foundation

Dr. Ed Ashby has provided us with decades of critical research focused on arrow and broadhead penetration. This work stands alone and provides global leadership in the areas of bowhunting lethality and ethical hunting practices.

www.ashbybowhunting.org

‎The Outdoor Drive Podcast: Dr. Ashby - 40 Years of Arrow Research on Apple Podcasts

‎Show The Outdoor Drive Podcast, Ep Dr. Ashby - 40 Years of Arrow Research - Jan 20, 2021

podcasts.apple.com

I’m sure you can find the podcast on all the platforms.

Very interesting.




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[1simplemann]

That is the performance I’m looking for! I am leaning hard towards the iron will single bevel 4 blade. I am told the bleeder doesn’t really impede penetration even in large bones but I’m a bit nervous


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It has to impede it a little. However that looks like a great head. I liked the review. Lusk did a review about a head from Austraila. I forget the name. That one looked great as well. I'm not changing though. The Helix has served me well. Also I built that arrow for when things go bad. I wasn't aiming there but he turned at the shot. It gave me a lot of confidence in my set up. I shoot an even heavierarrow now but only shoot 69 lbs. No bone hits with the new arrow but I did have a clean pass thru on a quartering away mature buck.

 

[Plebe]

It has to impede it a little. However that looks like a great head. I liked the review. Lusk did a review about a head from Austraila. I forget the name. That one looked great as well. I'm not changing though. The Helix has served me well. Also I built that arrow for when things go bad. I wasn't aiming there but he turned at the shot. It gave me a lot of confidence in my set up. I shoot an even heavierarrow now but only shoot 69 lbs. No bone hits with the new arrow but I did have a clean pass thru on a quartering away mature buck.

Alien Archery V2 Broadheads. I have them, set of 6.

Similar to Sawtooth A2, but steeper bevel angle, maybe thicker?, and the A2 have the ferrule machined to "assist rotation" which is kind of neat.

 

[BTaylor]

I know it will pass through 90/100 times in just gathering data of arrow weight/speed/head type vs large bones


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I have had spitfires completely crush upper leg bones and shoulder joints on the exit side but cant remember one of those that was a full pass through. Like mentioned above there is a fair bit of luck involved with how the point of the head hits bone and the resulting damage. Also cant recall a thunderhead not exiting no matter what bone was encountered going through. Keep in mind all of the deer I have killed with thunderheads were on arrow around 500 grains and running about 270 fps or slower. In most cases, much slower like 230. What my anecdotal evidence points to is that, for me, I would never shoot an arrow below 400 grains and with an arrow that light I would not shoot mechanicals and expect pass throughs consistently unless I cranked the draw weight up to 70+. The lighter the draw weight goes, the proportionally heavier the arrow needs to be for consistently good results. The other thing is fixed heads with thin tips, (bear razorheads, zwickey, stingers, etc), will curl or break if heavy bone is encountered. Maybe not every time but plenty. There is no perfect answer and I think the best a bowhunter can do for the least amount of headaches from tuning and lethality is to shoot the heaviest arrow they can keeping the fps in the 260-280 range and then shoot an appropriate head for the arrow setup, for compounds obviously. If a bow drawing 55# will push a 415 grain arrow 265, I would lean towards a fixed head like a vpa 3 blade, ironwill or daysix. If the bow drawing 70# will push a 500 grain arrow 270 fps then I would opt for something like a spitfire or grim reaper for bigger hole and expect pass throughs virtually 100% of the time outside of maybe a spine shot. Bow tune and arrow placement are more important that the actual arrow setup keeping in mind arrow setup in relation to tune. I think too may people get caught up in the heavy arrow or light arrow argument and fail to consider that an efficient bowhunting rig requires all components of the system to be evaluated for how they will be used together. It is an interdependent shooting system.

 

[Wmihunter]

I have had spitfires completely crush upper leg bones and shoulder joints on the exit side but cant remember one of those that was a full pass through. Like mentioned above there is a fair bit of luck involved with how the point of the head hits bone and the resulting damage. Also cant recall a thunderhead not exiting no matter what bone was encountered going through. Keep in mind all of the deer I have killed with thunderheads were on arrow around 500 grains and running about 270 fps or slower. In most cases, much slower like 230. What my anecdotal evidence points to is that, for me, I would never shoot an arrow below 400 grains and with an arrow that light I would not shoot mechanicals and expect pass throughs consistently unless I cranked the draw weight up to 70+. The lighter the draw weight goes, the proportionally heavier the arrow needs to be for consistently good results. The other thing is fixed heads with thin tips, (bear razorheads, zwickey, stingers, etc), will curl or break if heavy bone is encountered. Maybe not every time but plenty. There is no perfect answer and I think the best a bowhunter can do for the least amount of headaches from tuning and lethality is to shoot the heaviest arrow they can keeping the fps in the 260-280 range and then shoot an appropriate head for the arrow setup, for compounds obviously. If a bow drawing 55# will push a 415 grain arrow 265, I would lean towards a fixed head like a vpa 3 blade, ironwill or daysix. If the bow drawing 70# will push a 500 grain arrow 270 fps then I would opt for something like a spitfire or grim reaper for bigger hole and expect pass throughs virtually 100% of the time outside of maybe a spine shot. Bow tune and arrow placement are more important that the actual arrow setup keeping in mind arrow setup in relation to tune. I think too may people get caught up in the heavy arrow or light arrow argument and fail to consider that an efficient bowhunting rig requires all components of the system to be evaluated for how they will be used together. It is an interdependent shooting system.

Right now I am bare shaft tuned with a 585 grain arrow. That’s with a 200 grain point and a 120 grain insert/footer combo from ethics. My arrow speed is about 238. I’m hunting whitetails and most shots should be 30 and in. I could drop to 535 grains with a 150 grain point and retune. My arrow speed would increase to around 250 fps


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