Heavy arrow build thread

[Kurt]

I wonder if bow grip coold affect which way an arrow comes of,as in the slightest amount of torque would get it to spin.
And if Levis grip is almost perfectly neutral it could vary just a little bit in either direction?
Or i could be way off..More than likely am..

Good thought man. IDK. but if we all keep looking and asking questions , and getting advise from folks with more knowledge of such things we will find an answer that we can live with. I'm certain of it.

 

[Kurt]

I see a bunch of posts referencing the video so did some searching and found this one. Is this the same video that people are referring to and thinking he said he has arrows shoot both directions out of the same bow? Sounds like he is just giving two opposing examples, not stating that one bow shoots both. He starts by saying "I want to see the natural launch of that bow". Maybe someone can reach out to him and ask.

Sent from up in a tree

I'd say mystery solved. Now to figure out how important is it. I'm thinking for me and how I hunt, not that important. If someone can show me different I'd be willing to look at it.

 

[GTel]

I'd say mystery solved. Now to figure out how important is it. I'm thinking for me and how I hunt, not that important. It someone can show me different I'd be willing to look at it.

It must be important if that guy Levi said it That's why he makes/gets the big bucks! I'm following the new string thread to help pick out which I should purchase (catfish is in the lead). I'm sure I'll be able to kill a booner once I have a counter clockwise twisted string!

Sent from up in a tree

 

[Kurt]

Troy's response: "I’ve bent them all - when they are anchored in the off side shoulder and they run and torque them.
Best setup has been 100 grain steel insert - sleeves - I guess."

Interpreting the "I guess" to mean that he hasn't used sleeves but is guessing they may help, or may not. I don't think there's anything we can use that won't eventually bend. As he mentions in his videos, feel free to send him stuff and he'll shoot some hogs with them.

At some point, I guess we can over analyze this. So for next season, I'm going to use a bunch of 100g brass inserts and a bunch of 100g stainless inserts with a 315g single bevel head (I'm an extremist) and see if I notice any differences.



Sent from up in a tree

I did the Ethics stainless steel insert full length(110gr), the stainless footer(70gr), and a Masai 200. The only aluminum is in the ferrule, and the head is two piece.

 

[SnakeEater]

Well first batch of test arrows complete. Just shy of 550 grains and 21% FOC. Used the ethics insert/outserts to add 150 grains total. Really quieted my bow down too. Went cheap on arrows but between spinning them and hand selecting at the local shop and insert tuning they turned out good. They were already fletched but I plan on nock tuning them and seeing which fletches fly the same. Well see how they shoot and stretch they’re legs out tomorrow. Now to decide on broadheads. Looking at the kudupoints or vandieman broad heads from gidgee stick in Australia. Both 125 grain and are 2 blade single bevel and seem like good points. Anyone every tried either of them out or heard anything?

 

[woodsdog2]

I just tried out new arrows for my heavy build. A friend ordered the ranch fairy field point test kit and i ordered some vap tko arrows in 300 spine. I shoot 400 spine vap sport now and my bow is tuned to those and shoots bulletholes with them. The whole arrow including tip only weighs about 360 grains total,a twizzler for sure.
My DL is 29.5 and i shoot about 61 pounds out of a halon x.
The new arrows must be way overspined,you guys should have seen the paper tears. I got anywhere from 4 to 6 inch horizontal slashes,nock right.
I thought once i got to 300 grains tip weight it would get better,but it didnt. The bareshaft arrows shot best with a 100 grain tip,kind of the reverse of what i expected.
Those arrows dont work for me at all.
I put 200 grains on my 400 spine arrows and they handled that ok,but 250 made them go nock left.
I guess i will have to try some 350 spine and see if they will cooperate and let me get over 550 grains for my arrows.
I would love to end up close to 600 grains total weight and 20 to 25% FOC.
It is proving more difficult than i thought it would be so far...

This is great information and very helpful I am shocked that the arrows are reacting that way with that much point weight. I didn't see it in your post but are you shooting them at full length or are they cut already? You may want to go with a full length shaft with the 300 spine first or a least add an inch or two if you don't want them 31"'s but since your DL is already 29.5" maybe you are shooting them full length?

 

[Bowmanmike]

This is great information and very helpful I am shocked that the arrows are reacting that way with that much point weight. I didn't see it in your post but are you shooting them at full length or are they cut already? You may want to go with a full length shaft with the 300 spine first or a least add an inch or two if you don't want them 31"'s but since your DL is already 29.5" maybe you are shooting them full length?

i shot them full length,31 or 32 inches. Maybe my bow is a not as tuned as i thought. We adjusted the cam timing after my experiment,they were a touch out of sync. The weird thing was that it didn't make much of a difference what weight tip i had on there,all of them were horrible. 100 grain tip was the best.

 

[woodsdog2]

i shot them full length,31 or 32 inches. Maybe my bow is a not as tuned as i thought. We adjusted the cam timing after my experiment,they were a touch out of sync. The weird thing was that it didn't make much of a difference what weight tip i had on there,all of them were horrible. 100 grain tip was the best.

Are you shooting them bare shaft or fletched? I would think the cam timing would only effect the nock travel not cause the horizontal tears, if you're shooting fletched shafts through paper you may want to check for rest clearance and if a drop away maybe rest timing. Usually once your centershot is adjusted that should be good but not with severely underspined or overspined arrows.

 

[Weldabeast]

I just tried out new arrows for my heavy build. A friend ordered the ranch fairy field point test kit and i ordered some vap tko arrows in 300 spine. I shoot 400 spine vap sport now and my bow is tuned to those and shoots bulletholes with them. The whole arrow including tip only weighs about 360 grains total,a twizzler for sure.
My DL is 29.5 and i shoot about 61 pounds out of a halon x.
The new arrows must be way overspined,you guys should have seen the paper tears. I got anywhere from 4 to 6 inch horizontal slashes,nock right.
I thought once i got to 300 grains tip weight it would get better,but it didnt. The bareshaft arrows shot best with a 100 grain tip,kind of the reverse of what i expected.
Those arrows dont work for me at all.
I put 200 grains on my 400 spine arrows and they handled that ok,but 250 made them go nock left.
I guess i will have to try some 350 spine and see if they will cooperate and let me get over 550 grains for my arrows.
I would love to end up close to 600 grains total weight and 20 to 25% FOC.
It is proving more difficult than i thought it would be so far...

Before I started playing with heavies I had my bow tuned at a shop. Bow shot perfect with the light stuff. Once I started adding weight I realized that my tuned bow really wasn't. I ended up redoing everything I had paid home slice bow tech to do.

 

[Bowmanmike]

Before I started playing with heavies I had my bow tuned at a shop. Bow shot perfect with the light stuff. Once I started adding weight I realized that my tuned bow really wasn't. I ended up redoing everything I had paid home slice bow tech to do.

I tuned mine myself,it seems a shop will just set it to specs but that doesn't work for the individual shooter most of the time. I think i got close but not quite perfect.
I was shooting bareshaft,that makes the most sense to me for tuning.
I will have to start from scratch again as you guys suggested,hopefully the 340 grain full size diameter arrows are going to work for me. The good thing is that i started early enough with this process,i still have 7 months before hunting season starts.

 

[ofor]

I just tried out new arrows for my heavy build. A friend ordered the ranch fairy field point test kit and i ordered some vap tko arrows in 300 spine. I shoot 400 spine vap sport now and my bow is tuned to those and shoots bulletholes with them. The whole arrow including tip only weighs about 360 grains total,a twizzler for sure.
My DL is 29.5 and i shoot about 61 pounds out of a halon x.
The new arrows must be way overspined,you guys should have seen the paper tears. I got anywhere from 4 to 6 inch horizontal slashes,nock right.
I thought once i got to 300 grains tip weight it would get better,but it didnt. The bareshaft arrows shot best with a 100 grain tip,kind of the reverse of what i expected.
Those arrows dont work for me at all.
I put 200 grains on my 400 spine arrows and they handled that ok,but 250 made them go nock left.
I guess i will have to try some 350 spine and see if they will cooperate and let me get over 550 grains for my arrows.
I would love to end up close to 600 grains total weight and 20 to 25% FOC.
It is proving more difficult than i thought it would be so far...

I shoot a similar draw weight out of a Bowtech Assasin and recently did some bare shaft tests with a RF field tip test kit. Tried a 300 spine and got the same horizontal tears as you regardless of which tip I used. I then tested a 350 spine and had much better results with 225 gn and 275 gn tips shooting the best. I am going to go with a 100 gn steel insert which should allow me to use standard 125 fixed blades or a 175 gn single bevel of some type. I still have a lot more testing to do before I start the actual build.

 

[ericabbott]

If you’re getting a consistent tear you may need to adjust your rest. When I first started bareshafting with the new arrows I was getting consistent tail right and high flight. I made some small adjustments (about one tick mark) to my rest and got it flying straight with small variations both left and right as discussed in the video below.

 

[Bowmanmike]

If you’re getting a consistent tear you may need to adjust your rest. When I first started bareshafting with the new arrows I was getting consistent tail right and high flight. I made some small adjustments (about one tick mark) to my rest and got it flying straight with small variations both left and right as discussed in the video below.

I may have to give that a try. My rest already is adjusted left of center,i dont want to go much further left but i might have to.

 

[Red Beard]

I may have to give that a try. My rest already is adjusted left of center,i dont want to go much further left but i might have to.

Mike, don't be afraid to take that thing way out of whack if that's what the arrow is telling you.

 

[Weldabeast]

Yeah....centershot and all the other bowtec lingo goes out the window when u start going heavy. If I nock an arrow and step back and look it looks kinda crazy....cams, limbs, rest all look like they are outta wack but I hit my target with the arrows arriving square so I just roll with it.

 

[Red Beard]

Yeah....centershot and all the other bowtec lingo goes out the window when u start going heavy. If I nock an arrow and step back and look it looks kinda crazy....cams, limbs, rest all look like they are outta wack but I hit my target with the arrows arriving square so I just roll with it.

This is exactly right

 

[SnakeEater]

I’m basically dead center shot with my rest and I’m shooting 21% foc and taw of 550gr. Not that heavy but anyways when I tuned with the ranch fairy test kit I centered my rest and picked what weight shot best. 275gr tip was perfect bullet holes so that’s what I ran with giving me the above numbers. I thought when you did this tune you were supposed to center your rest and go back to factory specs and choose the weight that shoots best for your bow with the arrow spine your using.

 

[Weldabeast]

I'm sure each bow is going to behave differently. String material and age/ wear probably plays a factor also. I started with a bow (cheap bow) that was set up all squared and centered but by ther time I was done tuning it to bareshaft heavy set up (580 then eventually 660 grains) I have adjusted pretty much every adjustable component and moved the nock point. I probably don't have good form either. With the ezv sight shooting have become more instinctual so my shooting form probably stinks. The arrows fly and I hit my target fairly constantly so I'm happy with that. Ranch fairy said in 1 of his videos...tune the bow to your inconsistencies.... that's what I've done and it looks funny but shoots good

 

[Bowmanmike]

Mike, don't be afraid to take that thing way out of whack if that's what the arrow is telling you.

Good to hear. I felt weird before i had the cams shimmed my arrow was pointing way left coming of the bow but bareshaft flight was great. I think i will have to go back to that and forget about specs. I may try putting a different grip on the bow too,i have one with a flatter pad.
I was considering just shooting my 400 spine vaps with 200 grains up front,but that is sooo underspined it is scary. They flew well though. All the calculators put me at a 300 spine which i would feel safer with.

 

[Kurt]

I’m basically dead center shot with my rest and I’m shooting 21% foc and taw of 550gr. Not that heavy but anyways when I tuned with the ranch fairy test kit I centered my rest and picked what weight shot best. 275gr tip was perfect bullet holes so that’s what I ran with giving me the above numbers. I thought when you did this tune you were supposed to center your rest and go back to factory specs and choose the weight that shoots best for your bow with the arrow spine your using.

That's what I did. Start at factory, Pick two shafts,( I just started with one shaft, VAP 250s) try different point weights, pick a weight or weights that shoot best, nock tune or paper tune or both, (which is what I'm doing). I have a hand load that shoots great out of my bow. I think if you are have some issues (won't paper tune), and can't get good arrow flight for some reason, I would take it in to have someone look at it on a draw board, maybe you'll need to have some gross adjustments made to the yokes or cable timing, then start over again from the beginning if adjustments needed to be made. Watch the video of the guy shooting a 900gr arrow through a car hood.Maybe google my 900gr arrow build. He shows some need for yoke and nocking point adjustment before he got good bare shaft flight.