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Hypothetically, what would be the best cross loading carabiner?

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kyler1945 said:
Naw man. Locking carabiners exist to make you climb trees slower and with more effort.

What are you smokin’ ?
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Why else would they exist, right? I mean, they're more expensive to manufacture and apparently heavier and crappier to use. Gotta be some reason to justify their existence.
 
I thought the one guy was complaining about cracking jokes and making fun of things, but it was just me and Horn I guess doing it. Oh, wait no its other guys too. :tearsofjoy:
 
Hey man, I didn't mean to cut out and leave you hanging. I've busy sewing up my new saddle. No one will check my credentials for over in that thread. But use the wrong carabiner and geez
 
Chandler96 said:
I thought the one guy was complaining about cracking jokes and making fun of things, but it was just me and Horn I guess doing it. Oh, wait no its other guys too. :tearsofjoy:
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Assuming this is about me, I ask you to re-read my posts. My point wasn't to complain about people cracking jokes, it was to answer the question you asked and point out the reasons why the accepted best practices of the two industries closest to what we do recommend not doing what you are doing, without being shouted down as the safety police.


Chandler96 said:
Everyone is worried about the gate opening when it's shown above that locking gates can come open as well.
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Chandler96 said:
Every single carabiner gate can come open some easier than others but if that's the case no carabiner is safe.
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plane1.jpgplane2.jpg

Both of these planes can crash. If you goal is to get home to you family which one would you take?

I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but, I think you just have to be trolling at this point. It's time for me to exit the conversation, I think most people can see the flaws in this logic and have the information they need to make a somewhat informed decision.
 
GCTerpfan said:
Assuming this is about me, I ask you to re-read my posts. My point wasn't to complain about people cracking jokes, it was to answer the question you asked and point out the reasons why the accepted best practices of the two industries closest to what we do recommend not doing what you are doing, without being shouted down as the safety police.





View attachment 95156View attachment 95157

Both of these planes can crash. If you goal is to get home to you family which one would you take?

I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but, I think you just have to be trolling at this point. It's time for me to exit the conversation, I think most people can see the flaws in this logic and have the information they need to make a somewhat informed decision.
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I mean yeah If I was comparing the worst wire carabiner compared to the best locking carabiner ever made this would make sense. but the carabiners are rated the same. the only difference is the opening. I'm not trolling and I'm not trying to change your mind I'm just stating my opinion. So, we can make fun of others and crack jokes as long as we don't use the word safety police?
 
Nutterbuster said:
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Why else would they exist, right? I mean, they're more expensive to manufacture and apparently heavier and crappier to use. Gotta be some reason to justify their existence.
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I mean its facts that they're heavier. It's facts that the take longer to use. I mean you can joke about it all you want, we can't, but you can but facts are facts.
 
Weldabeast said:
U just a wild man and the next trend setter... No leg straps and wire gates are the future
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lol this thread was initially started to find a good carabiner for my tether. I don't even own a wire carabiner yet but I'm going to try it for myself and see what I think. I wasn't the only or the first one not to wear leg straps though! I'm going to add a disclaimer to my signature though.
 
Chandler96 said:
lol this thread was initially started to find a good carabiner for my tether. I don't even own a wire carabiner yet but I'm going to try it for myself and see what I think. I wasn't the only or the first one not to wear leg straps though! I'm going to add a disclaimer to my signature though.
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Hopefully it's not a Darwin Award...
 
I just don’t see how using a carabiner can be any easier, and we know as far as cross loading that it’s not safer, than using a quick link or delta. I guess it might take like, 3-7 seconds fewer to lock a biner shut (I’m not touching the whole “Wiregate” conspiracy) compared to a link, but a link is smaller, often stronger and made of steel (minor axis is MUCH stronger than a biner), not susceptible to cross loading, and as light or lighter than a biner. That’s it. My QL is rated exactly the same as my locking biners but it stays locked with a stopper knot much better and has the aforementioned benefits.
Oh, and they’re not MORE expensive than a carabiner. Mine was like $8. My cheapest biner is $13.
If we’re just talking common sense and dollars to “sen¢e” I don’t see any benefit besides time that a carabiner could provide over a QL for girth hitching. Cold fingers maybe. I dunno that I’m rappelling in that kinda cold but that’s not for this thread. I’m a wimp and that’s my personal choice. I rarely choose convenience over what’s been proven (we cite HowNot2 all the time around here but do we really pay attention to every word that brilliant human says? Every number he crunches and bone he prevents us from breaking? truly the lord’s work) to be best-practices or at the very least, almost-best practices. I’m not an arborist or a highliner, I like to watch critters from the trees with my bow. That’s just not worth the risks to take my setup from 7-9 minutes and 12-15# of gear to 5-7 minutes and 7-10# of gear. Realistically, those numbers are even closer together. Differences are negligible when you have three kids and a wife and you would like to get home. But I don’t judge anybody for doing what they do up in that tree. Just don’t judge me when I pull up to the spot with my 3-4 full length XOP sticks with cam straps and my giant trophyline mission platform strapped to my Gimli-esque frame. I’m secure in my sense of security and if you are too we gon’ hunt hard.

Because I wanna respect the initial question @Chandler96 asked, and not assume anyone is any stupider than I am in a tree (casting stones from on high ain’t my thing unless you’re a deer), IF I were to girth hitch with a biner (which I am not advocating for and don’t in real life do) I would make sure it was a locking steel carabiner because if it were to compromise, steel bends which gives its warning before it breaks. Downside is steel rusts so IF I were to use an aluminum one it’d be a locker with a high rating. High enough of a rating so JiC my carabiner is the dud in the batch in China, it theoretically takes a lot more force to break even the weakest one.
 
DelaWhere_Arrow said:
I just don’t see how using a carabiner can be any easier, and we know as far as cross loading that it’s not safer, than using a quick link or delta. I guess it might take like, 3-7 seconds fewer to lock a biner shut (I’m not touching the whole “Wiregate” conspiracy) compared to a link, but a link is smaller, often stronger and made of steel (minor axis is MUCH stronger than a biner), not susceptible to cross loading, and as light or lighter than a biner. That’s it. My QL is rated exactly the same as my locking biners but it stays locked with a stopper knot much better and has the aforementioned benefits.
Oh, and they’re not MORE expensive than a carabiner. Mine was like $8. My cheapest biner is $13.
If we’re just talking common sense and dollars to “sen¢e” I don’t see any benefit besides time that a carabiner could provide over a QL for girth hitching. Cold fingers maybe. I dunno that I’m rappelling in that kinda cold but that’s not for this thread. I’m a wimp and that’s my personal choice. I rarely choose convenience over what’s been proven (we cite HowNot2 all the time around here but do we really pay attention to every word that brilliant human says? Every number he crunches and bone he prevents us from breaking? truly the lord’s work) to be best-practices or at the very least, almost-best practices. I’m not an arborist or a highliner, I like to watch critters from the trees with my bow. That’s just not worth the risks to take my setup from 7-9 minutes and 12-15# of gear to 5-7 minutes and 7-10# of gear. Realistically, those numbers are even closer together. Differences are negligible when you have three kids and a wife and you would like to get home. But I don’t judge anybody for doing what they do up in that tree. Just don’t judge me when I pull up to the spot with my 3-4 full length XOP sticks with cam straps and my giant trophyline mission platform strapped to my Gimli-esque frame. I’m secure in my sense of security and if you are too we gon’ hunt hard.

Because I wanna respect the initial question @Chandler96 asked, and not assume anyone is any stupider than I am in a tree (casting stones from on high ain’t my thing unless you’re a deer), IF I were to girth hitch with a biner (which I am not advocating for and don’t in real life do) I would make sure it was a locking steel carabiner because if it were to compromise, steel bends which gives its warning before it breaks. Downside is steel rusts so IF I were to use an aluminum one it’d be a locker with a high rating. High enough of a rating so JiC my carabiner is the dud in the batch in China, it theoretically takes a lot more force to break even the weakest one.
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Great answer. I like it.
 
My basic objection to this whole thing is saddle hunting application is already a safety hijacking of climbing & arborist established practices. There aren’t “real” rules just best practices….. so under that premise there are few experts present. I know that administrators & mods aren’t trying to keep folks from the cutting edge or new gear applications but rather a topic being discussed/ debated & then someone googles that topic & uses fragments of those discussions without context & adopts a potentially harmful “best practice “ into their routine. I think some of what you’re getting back @Chandler96 is part of this community has seen these same discussions over the years as this elevated hunting method has gained popularity, folks don’t want to endorse or give their “hypothetical” blessing knowing what the possible outcomes could be. Not everyone communicates that the same but that’s the skinny. Plus there’s been some trolling in the past along these lines…….
 
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