In defense of my flipper flappers

[Texar]

No biggie man......shoot what you have the most confidence in. I shot NAP Spitfires 100g for over 20 years and as long as I did my part and the deer didn't turn inside out they put meat in the freezer. I also have used Slicktricks 100g side by side with the Spitfires with good success. I switched last year and I'm now shoot Magnus Stinger 4blade 125's. Although RF makes good sense, I didn't want to go to telephone poles just yet.

The doe I shot Saturday was quartering away hard....arrow entered between the last 2 ribs and hit the offside leg bone. Arrow broke of course and the deer took off like her tail was on fire. I watched her run till I lost sight of her. I got down to track her and there was ZERO blood!! She only went about 75 yards and was where I lost sight of her.

So first experience with using big fixed blade was discouraging but I'm gonna stay with them all season and see how it pans out.

 

[mermatt83]

Shoot whatever works for you but, can you elaborate on your blood trails a little? If I am understanding your correctly you get poor blood trails with pass throughs but great blood trails with shots that don't pass through? Just curious because that's the exact opposite of my experience.

Obviously, one hunter's limited experience over a few year period is not a statistically significant data set, but I've just found that as long as I get my arrow into the vital area, the deer have dumped blood both out of the entry hole and also I think they've had more blood coming out of their nostrils. Literally every deer I've shot so far with my Reapers have left a blood trail from impact to the dead deer that even a first time hunter could easily follow.
Unfortunately, that was not the case for me with my fixed heads. I was often searching for drops of blood.
I also want to reiterate that I have no desire to try to debate this issue or claim that I know the "right" way. If I hunted with a group of close friends who were willing to come help me track and drag a deer at a moment's notice, I'd probably go the heavy fixed head route. Also I'm open to letting experience and reason change my mind. If I have a few bad experiences where I believe I would've had a cleaner kill or easier recovery, I'll consider making a switch.

 

[DanielB89]

Two dropped in their tracks

Just curious here.. were these deer shot in soft tissue and dropped in their tracks? Or was this a shot that ended up in the spine/high shoulder(spine) and they dropped?

 

[mermatt83]

I'm surprised you aren't getting pass throughs. What is your set up (draw length, poundage, etc)? Have you bare shaft tuned your bow so the arrow is driving in as straight as possible?

I shoot 60 lbs and 30 inch draw and am big on bow tuning. I carry 3 different types of broadheads with me (in a 3 arrow quiver, I select the arrow based upon weather and other factors). One is always a 100 grain Grim Reaper Razortip with 1 3/8" cut diameter (similar to your fatal steel) and I always get pass throughs. Last year was a quartering away mature 8 pt, entrance at the last rib and exit through part of shoulder blade.

One advantage to mechanicals over smaller 2 blades: most bad shots are gut shots and not heavy bone impacts. A mechanical is way better in the guts. My observation is you hear way more guys saying "hit it in the guts" compared to "stuck it in the hardest part of the shoulder and it didn't hit vitals". It is also mathematical. How much bigger percentage wise is the guts compared to the socket of the shoulder blade, ridge of the shoulder blade near the socket, and the humerus? (the rest of the shoulder blade is pretty thin).

PS edit: Also, no matter which direction a deer is heading, if it is walking or starts to walk, then the shot will hit towards the guts (unless it is walking backward). A deer coiling at the shot is different, of course (will make it hit high...but often farther back if it also turns away from the sound at the same time).

Since I'm trying to be honest with myself and all of you on here, I have never spent the proper time bare shaft tuning. My draw is about 29 and I shoot around 60 lbs. I shoot the Hoyt beginner bow, the Ignite. I think you're right that I'd get better penetration and momentum if I did more tuning. I will put that high up on my priority list for this upcoming off season.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments on this. I so appreciate the tone and civility on this forum.

 

[raisins]

Watch THP last you tube post. He uses a single bvl cutthroat. the arrow deflects off a limb and causes the arrow to KO the shoulder. The arrow didn't pass through and broke off inside the buck. The monster buck still only ran 50 yards and the broad head could be used again. this is why they call fixed blade high FOC arrows plan B arrows. Because you never know what will happen once the arrow leaves the string. There isnt any doubt mechanicals kill deer but in my opinion they dont hold up as well when hitting bone.

True, but the negatives are often not discussed.

All else being equal, the Plan B arrows have a smaller cutting diameter and so average blood trails will be more sparse, the arrows typically have a worse trajectory and so bad hits up and down will be more common, and if you make the most common bad shot (liver and/or guts) then the larger diameter cut is better. It seems like there are a legion of bowhunters getting arrows routinely stuck in the shoulder, but it just doesn't seem all that common to me. Also, 2 years ago, the same THP'er (Aaron) put a typical arrow weight arrow with a QAD Exodus broadhead right through the shoulder of a buck (on purpose due to quartering toward angle). So, we don't know how much the Plan B arrow actually helped this time.

Anecdotally, with parallel limbs and string stoppers, I don't think bow noise is significantly decreased until you get very heavy. I recorded and shot for friends/family a 400 grain and a 500 grain arrow several times (switched the order without telling them). Their opinion on which was louder was random. You couldn't tell from the audio recording with headphones either. I guess I should get a decibel measuring device also and try some really heavy arrows (over 600 grains). Maybe cat whiskers will make a comeback?

 

[raisins]

Since I'm trying to be honest with myself and all of you on here, I have never spent the proper time bare shaft tuning. My draw is about 29 and I shoot around 60 lbs. I shoot the Hoyt beginner bow, the Ignite. I think you're right that I'd get better penetration and momentum if I did more tuning. I will put that high up on my priority list for this upcoming off season.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments on this. I so appreciate the tone and civility on this forum.

Shoot through taut wax paper with a bare shaft at a range of distances (10 to 20 feet). This will also help your form immensely. If you are shooting the bow wonky, then you will get tears that you can't get out (paper tuning fletched shafts will hide this). It will also teach you a lot about your bow. If I get bullet holes with bare shafts and can get fletched and bare shafts to hit together at 20 yards, then I am typically good (can screw on fixed blades and have them hit with field points at 50 yards). Also, on your bare shaft, I wrap electrical tape in the center of where the fletchings would be and put an amount of tape that weighs the same as my fletchings.

 

[bj139]

This'll work.

 

[GCTerpfan]

Obviously, one hunter's limited experience over a few year period is not a statistically significant data set, but I've just found that as long as I get my arrow into the vital area, the deer have dumped blood both out of the entry hole and also I think they've had more blood coming out of their nostrils. Literally every deer I've shot so far with my Reapers have left a blood trail from impact to the dead deer that even a first time hunter could easily follow.
Unfortunately, that was not the case for me with my fixed heads. I was often searching for drops of blood.
I also want to reiterate that I have no desire to try to debate this issue or claim that I know the "right" way. If I hunted with a group of close friends who were willing to come help me track and drag a deer at a moment's notice, I'd probably go the heavy fixed head route. Also I'm open to letting experience and reason change my mind. If I have a few bad experiences where I believe I would've had a cleaner kill or easier recovery, I'll consider making a switch.

Got ya. I was just looking for a little more information on your experience, wasn't trying to change your mind. I've had some poor blood trails with 2 blade COC heads also. It's one of the reason I went to a 3 blade COC this year. I personally still like having that exit hole though.

 

[Hossmiller]

I’m in a similar boat. I started hunting with fixed heads(muzzy 3 blades) and usually had mediocre blood trails. I never lost a deer but usually ended up on my knees at some point during the track job. I then switched to flipper flappers(rage) on a heavy arrow (Easton fmj’s) with great results on every harvest, even a couple of less than perfect shots. I plan to continue using a heavy arrow with a flipper flapper, as it works for me. I am highly considering switching to the grim reaper whitetail special pros, as the last pack of rages I bought don’t seem to have the same quality and sharpness as they used to.

 

[GCTerpfan]

Maybe cat whiskers will make a comeback?

They went away??

 

[DEADBEAR]

Anyone going up in arrow weight but still shooting the mechanicals? I’d be interested to see how that fairs.

This is what I have done so far with good results. I was not necessarily wanting to increase arrow weight but, I just had a really low F.O.C with stock arrow parts because of my set up, and was getting a lot of tail wag when the arrow would make contact.

So far the results have been good. The last does I shot broke 2 ribs going in and 2 ribs going out. The arrow exited at the armpit and went back into her elbow, shattering it. That was with a three blade expandable at 10 yards though. The arrow weighs about 520 grains and is 30 inches

 

[MattMan81]

I have no interest in debating this. I'm not saying that mechanicals are better or the "right" set up, I'm just writing out my thoughts on why they have felt like the "right"set up for me.

No justification needed. Shoot what you want. It's free country. Everyone is entitled to that. Everyone has an opinion on what works best. There past experience dictates that. Bottom line. Be safe out there. That's what's important.

 

[Gator]

Anyone going up in arrow weight but still shooting the mechanicals? I’d be interested to see how that fairs.

I have but I have no results yet I've been a Rage shooter for the past 10-15 years always with good results but since I got a new bow and my old bow arrows are no longer available for sale, I found myself in the market so went ahead and added a 100 grain insert to the front. My plan was to continue to shoot Rage but then I found the Grim Reaper Hybrid's so I've been loading one of those thus far. Hopefully I'll have some results soon!

 

[SETXsportsman6]

Just curious here.. were these deer shot in soft tissue and dropped in their tracks? Or was this a shot that ended up in the spine/high shoulder(spine) and they dropped?

One was a freak accident that ended up in the back of it's neck . The other went in between two ribs and the arrow shaft broke and the broadhead kicked up. I cut it out of it's back strap. So yes both of them severed spinal cord.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

 

[JDHoosier]

I have but I have no results yet I've been a Rage shooter for the past 10-15 years always with good results but since I got a new bow and my old bow arrows are no longer available for sale, I found myself in the market so went ahead and added a 100 grain insert to the front. My plan was to continue to shoot Rage but then I found the Grim Reaper Hybrid's so I've been loading one of those thus far. Hopefully I'll have some results soon!

Same here. I'm only at 500 gr but have yet to shoot anything to get any results.

 

[Hawgnuts57]

I switched to a heavy setup last year with rage trypans using fmjs and 100 gr inverts. Killed 7 deer shot 10. 5 of the 7 were broadsided shots double lung or lung and heart only 2 of the five rages survived lost blades on 2 and bent ferrel on another. The other 2 recoverys were 1 frontal shot that hit spine and completely destroyed the rage. The other the deer spun and I hit him in the hip also destroyed the rage but he went 10 yards. The 3 lost deer seemed like good shoulder shots but horrible blood and no recovery. So this year I ditched the fmjs and rages and went with adult carbon arrows 20% foc and cutthroats

 

[Hawgnuts57]

Buttt! I was also playing with some high speed stuff too I had victory xvs and 100 gr rage triptans moving at 340 fps and killed 6 hogs all recoverys and 2 were big boars so it all works under perfect conditions