Fire away man. You may share a thought that makes us all consider something in a different way or we might learn something new.
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In need of advice
- Thread starter Anobody
- Start date
Great point. I shoot off the shelf and get better flight shooting cock feather in than either of the other positions. I am also shooting 3 fletch. Got me curious as to how nocking orientation would be impacted shooting 4 fletch off the shelf.
I doubt that 4 fletch gives as much latitude for turning the nock (on a arrow already fletched). Yeah you can nock tune a bare shaft and then 4 fletch it, but once the shaft has 4 feathers on it, it seems to me that no matter which way you turn the nock, one of the feathers would be towards the 6 o'clock/shelf position. fletch at 6 o'clock may very well may work for some shooters, but I suspect it would be a tiny minority of shooters.
And don't forget that there are various orientations for 4 fletch...four @ 90 decrees and four at 75x90 degrees (on a Bitzenburger). Like all of this stuff...If you are having issues with arrow tuning, it might be worth a try some unconventional tactics.
One other point that I think is common knowledge but it bares repeating in case some guys don't realize it, but unlike aluminum, carbon shafts do have a stiff side and should be tuned and fletched accordingly. In order to determine where the stiff side is on a shaft, flex it across your thigh and roll it towards you knee. There will be a noticeable "jump" (actually 2 jumps 180 degrees opposite of each other).
I have no data, but I wonder how much spine difference there is in a given shaft between the stiff side and the weak side?? Does a 500 spine shoot like a 550 if fletched 90 degrees "off"?
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To OP! This is a video by one of the members here. It sounds like what you need??? Good luck.
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So I bare shaft tuned my arrows for my bow a 100 grain insert and various weights from 100-200 gr and arrived at 125 being the sweet spot. Being content with my straight shooting arrows I went and fletched all of them and blew them to shooting. When I was shooting with the fletching I was getting a lot of kick to the side and I couldn’t figure out what the heck was going on. I played with the brace height a little and just could get them to shoot right, they appeared to be shooting over spined (left hand kicking left). I was so frustrated that I took my rest plates off and put my grizzly weather west back on. That corrected it a good bit, but then I considered my release off. I focused on my release and I was back to shooting darts.
1. changing rests does affect your arrow flight and I shouldn’t have changed anything after I bare-shaft tuned
2. when tubing arrows I often get too focused on what the arrow is doing and my form suffers which only affects my arrow flight more. Once I relaxed and just shot normal everything flowed like it should.
3. shoot with your broad heads and make sure they fly well! I don’t know what changes from a field trip to a broadhead in my mind but I shoot them differently and that’s no bueno. I’m going to try and keep shooting the broadhead everyday to build up some confidence. I was shooting very well before
just thoughts from my frustrations this weekend
1. changing rests does affect your arrow flight and I shouldn’t have changed anything after I bare-shaft tuned
2. when tubing arrows I often get too focused on what the arrow is doing and my form suffers which only affects my arrow flight more. Once I relaxed and just shot normal everything flowed like it should.
3. shoot with your broad heads and make sure they fly well! I don’t know what changes from a field trip to a broadhead in my mind but I shoot them differently and that’s no bueno. I’m going to try and keep shooting the broadhead everyday to build up some confidence. I was shooting very well before
just thoughts from my frustrations this weekend
What is your fletching setup?
Petrichor
Well-Known Member
Also give cock feather in a try if you run a three fletch.
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I also tried rotating the arrow fletchings with no change. Forgot I did that. I tried a lot of things during the troubleshooting process.
Petrichor
Well-Known Member
What kind of fletching are you using? I have trad vanes and they do not bump out.
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4 inch parabolics I believe. My arrows are shooting straight again. I think it my release more than anything.
Petrichor
Well-Known Member
Could definitely be.
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On the bear weather rest I was shooting mini regular vanes and they weren’t bumping out at all. I almost kept that setup just for fun but ultimately fletched the feathers. I’m shooting gateway 4” feathers.
like I said the cock feather orientation made no noticeable different. The flight instantly changed straight when I went back to a clean release. I was getting a little catchy on my release which was doing something weird to the shot.
I get a little hitch in arrow flight if I have too much string pressure with my ring finger.
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That could be it too!
Razorbak66
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Ok I have noticed a lot of fellas bareshafting their arrows to shoot dead on straight I’m going to go the record and say that’s wrong. You want your arrow to go straight yes but you want it to be slight weak and a smidge nock high as when you add your vanes or feathers it will be right dead straight as the feathers corrects that and I noticed the higher spine your shooting the higher the nock is high regardless of point weight and you must and I repeat must shoot the bareshafts vertically and not canted as you will get a better reading period.
My method of bare shaft is to use one shaft cut 1” pass my draw length and I do not use heavy inserts if I can help it I use stock I do not use full length shafts as for my draw I don’t need it I’m not chasing the high FOC like some fellas as that’s ok but it’s not me I’m going after deer not mastodon and I use sharp cut on contact broadheads and 95% of the time I get complete pass thru
Ok so my method which I recently did for one of my main hunting bows I’m shooting off a plunger /rest
60#@27” draw arrow cut to 28” with a 7/8” aluminum footer which acts as a draw stop off my rest that way I’m consistent all the time on my draw I then use Easton axis 400 and started at 125 head reading shows slightly stiff then I went to 145gr and it’s right down the middle then I go to 175 grain ( my favorite weight) and it’s slightly weak what I want then I go to 200 and it’s weak so I know I can shoot that in a pinch I go back to 175 and move my distance to 20 yards and I started at 10 yards and my shaft is flying beautifully with it being slight nock high and slight weak. I grab fletched shafts and bam all grouping from what ever distance I decide to shoot. I have learned over the years I can shoot up to 55# with a 500 spine and up to 63# with 400 spine using point weight between 175 to 200 grains and over that draw weight I use 340 spine. I keep dedicated bareshafts that I use in every shooting session that way I will know if string stretch or I’m doing something wrong or something is off on my bow I shoot bows that are cut to or past center wether is off a rest or shelf and I also know if I shoot a bow that is not cut to center I can drop down in spine and it works for me. I’m not saying it’s the best method but every one I shown this to is now doing it and is a believer. I did recently started to tune my new back up and I’m not done yet as I’m getting new shafts for it when I head down to Lancaster archery later this week as I need a few more things for it to set up properly. Just remember guys shoot vertically bareshafting then you can cant the bow which is the way I shoot. I shoot instinctive bare finger split and off a springy or rest wether it’s my right or left hand bows
My method of bare shaft is to use one shaft cut 1” pass my draw length and I do not use heavy inserts if I can help it I use stock I do not use full length shafts as for my draw I don’t need it I’m not chasing the high FOC like some fellas as that’s ok but it’s not me I’m going after deer not mastodon and I use sharp cut on contact broadheads and 95% of the time I get complete pass thru
Ok so my method which I recently did for one of my main hunting bows I’m shooting off a plunger /rest
60#@27” draw arrow cut to 28” with a 7/8” aluminum footer which acts as a draw stop off my rest that way I’m consistent all the time on my draw I then use Easton axis 400 and started at 125 head reading shows slightly stiff then I went to 145gr and it’s right down the middle then I go to 175 grain ( my favorite weight) and it’s slightly weak what I want then I go to 200 and it’s weak so I know I can shoot that in a pinch I go back to 175 and move my distance to 20 yards and I started at 10 yards and my shaft is flying beautifully with it being slight nock high and slight weak. I grab fletched shafts and bam all grouping from what ever distance I decide to shoot. I have learned over the years I can shoot up to 55# with a 500 spine and up to 63# with 400 spine using point weight between 175 to 200 grains and over that draw weight I use 340 spine. I keep dedicated bareshafts that I use in every shooting session that way I will know if string stretch or I’m doing something wrong or something is off on my bow I shoot bows that are cut to or past center wether is off a rest or shelf and I also know if I shoot a bow that is not cut to center I can drop down in spine and it works for me. I’m not saying it’s the best method but every one I shown this to is now doing it and is a believer. I did recently started to tune my new back up and I’m not done yet as I’m getting new shafts for it when I head down to Lancaster archery later this week as I need a few more things for it to set up properly. Just remember guys shoot vertically bareshafting then you can cant the bow which is the way I shoot. I shoot instinctive bare finger split and off a springy or rest wether it’s my right or left hand bows
Razorbak66
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If you got fletch interference then flip to shoot cock feather in and if that don’t work then rotate your nock 1/8” at a time until no contact and make sure your tiller is correct as some bows come zero tiller as if your shooting spilt you want positive tiller and if your shooting off shelf leave a small open groove so feather can slide thru and if you need to raise the peak at the deepest part of the grip use a toothpick or piece of leather lace. Many ways to skin the cat
Nock tightness on the string could also effect your flight. My arrows actually shoot better when my nocks snap tightly on the string. The rule of thumb that a hanging arrow should fall off the string with a "tap" on the string, does not apply to me.
I also noticed Jimmy Blackmon's nocks in one of the classes on The Push Archery...There was an audible "snap" when he nocked an arrow. I'm not sure if that was a mistake in production of the video, but it did jump out at me that his nock sounded just like mine. We've been told for years that a tight nock is a no-no, but it seems to work better for my flight.
I also noticed Jimmy Blackmon's nocks in one of the classes on The Push Archery...There was an audible "snap" when he nocked an arrow. I'm not sure if that was a mistake in production of the video, but it did jump out at me that his nock sounded just like mine. We've been told for years that a tight nock is a no-no, but it seems to work better for my flight.
I think you already figured it out. Making significant changes to your rest like that will affect tune. Also, it's easy to start focusing on watching your arrow and forget about shooting with correct form. It's often better to have someone else watch (or film) your arrow so that you can just focus on executing a correct shot. It sounds like your back to shooting well.
Petrichor
Well-Known Member
I also tune a smidge weak and nock high.