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Is Colorado even serious?

What I’m saying is that there are people in the mountains here that can disturb animals. The act of picking up the antler does really change anything. Unless a person is tracking the animals, anyone can disturb the elk. Not just shed hunter cause stress. We just saw this with the orange debate. Hunters where orange but not hikers, bikers or anyone else. If the woods are closed, close them for everyone.
 
The point I'm not sure you get, OP, is out west animals migrate between winter and summer ranges. In some areas the winter ranges are constricted to relatively small areas, and thus the importance of taking whatever measures are possible to protect them there. Also human developments have exploded in CO and most of that has encroached on winter range, which has adversely impacted deer and elk populations.
 
My point is, I can be fined for picking up a shed. That is it, end of point!
It was a news story I read and found to be incredibly stupid.

We are dealing with stupid on the east coast too. They are shutting whole beaches down to fishing, because a plover or an oyster catcher has a nest in a sand dune.
It is a whole rant. They complain about a shed hunter ruining a wintering spot, but they will level 1000's of acres for new homes and then complain when a coyote eats fluffy. We can't put a scratch on a tree or cut a single branch while climbing, because it "might" kill a tree, but they cut down 1000's of acres to make wood for house that are taking away habitat.
 
My point is, I can be fined for picking up a shed. That is it, end of point!
It was a news story I read and found to be incredibly stupid.

We are dealing with stupid on the east coast too. They are shutting whole beaches down to fishing, because a plover or an oyster catcher has a nest in a sand dune.
It is a whole rant. They complain about a shed hunter ruining a wintering spot, but they will level 1000's of acres for new homes and then complain when a coyote eats fluffy. We can't put a scratch on a tree or cut a single branch while climbing, because it "might" kill a tree, but they cut down 1000's of acres to make wood for house that are taking away habitat.



What I’m saying is that there are people in the mountains here that can disturb animals. The act of picking up the antler does really change anything. Unless a person is tracking the animals, anyone can disturb the elk. Not just shed hunter cause stress. We just saw this with the orange debate. Hunters where orange but not hikers, bikers or anyone else. If the woods are closed, close them for everyone.


Hikers, bikers, and hippies stay on trails in winter. They don't go cross country in winter in specific areas they KNOW animals are in to find sheds.

The rule isn't intended to stop the poor OP who decided to go to Colorado for vacation, and on a walk on a nice winter day in an area where elk don't winter, and he randomly finds a three year old shed. He gets to the trailhead with it and he's tazed and his truck taken, and hunting privileges revoked for life...

The rule is intended to significantly reduce the amount of cross country human traffic in areas that elk and deer winter (and in some cases raise young), WHILE THEY'RE THERE, due to SHED HUNTERS.

No one is being persecuted or singled out here. Would eliminating ALL traffic in these areas during this time be more effective in reducing stress on the animals? Of course. So would nuking the entire human population. I don't think we're doing that, although the odds go up by the day recently...

Winters are hard on deer and elk, and they're harder when people walk cross country all over wintering ground. You know who does a whole lot of that? Shed hunters. People specifically targeting areas that deer and elk winter to find sheds. This isn't a casual hobby. There's tens of thousands of people who treat it like a job when they're out there. This is an effective measure at reducing traffic.

We can argue how effective it is. But saying that CPW isn't doing this based on evidence puts the onus on YOU. Show me how much impact hikers, bikers, and hippies staying on single track during winter, because they're too wimpy to plow through waist deep powder, impact deer and elk numbers. Show me how banning shed hunting during the winter/early spring months DOESN'T positively correlate with herd health.

If you can't do that, you're just whining that the CPW only cares about money. The CPW is made up of a whole bunch of people who care significantly more for the environment than most hunters. How do I know this? They make peanuts to do their job. It's a government institution. They can't profit from it. It's a bizarre premise to begin with. And the evidence to support it is even more head scratching.



I'll make a deal - if you decide to go to colorado for vacation, and stumble across a shed on a trail you're walking on, randomly, as in not purposely out there going cross country shed hunting, and are somehow stopped by LEO, and that individual issues you a citation and takes the shed, I'll pay your fine. In return, I ask that the complaints about something most of us here know little about, stop.
 
Illegal to remove sheds from Federal Wildlife areas and many state areas in my home state as well.
Doesn't stop people.

Winter range=perfect places to build houses.

There is a reason mountain dwellers migrate. It's not like flat ground.
 
Revenue from licenses and taxes for CPW has gone from 45mil in 1990(140mil in today dollars), to 70mil in 2019(70 mil in today dollars). If it is about making money, I’d say the CPW is about as terrible at it as you would expect park rangers, wildlife biologists, etc to be…
 
Ironic that the $700 out of state tag has unlimited sales. To the OG post, I live in NW Colorado......you are correct in your logic.
If you want to see a lot of people in the woods........hunt OTC in Colorado! That is where the true herd management issues lie.

Just my humble opinion
Have a great day.
 
Ironic that the $700 out of state tag has unlimited sales. To the OG post, I live in NW Colorado......you are correct in your logic.
If you want to see a lot of people in the woods........hunt OTC in Colorado! That is where the true herd management issues lie.

Just my humble opinion
Have a great day.

make every coloradoan buy a 100.00 (outdoor license) hunting license that includes every single thing you might do in the outdoors, including breathing.

offer a tax deduction for those who truly can’t afford it.

then reduce your number of NR tags and make every unit draw, but 50/50 resident/NR.

make all hunters declare hunter group A, or hunter group B.

hunters in group A hunt in even years. B odd.

three year transition period under normal system for everyone to declare. Starting in 2025, implement the system. You can only hunt every other year.

benefits:

- half the hunters during elk and deer season.

- incentivize sedentary inside cats To play outside a little. They’re paying anyway.

- even the input from hikers bikers and hippies with hunters.

- reduce the number of naughty NR hunters using (mostly federal…….) land in CO.

- increase revenue, and citizen involvement in natural resource management.

- lower the amount of whining every naughty NR has to hear before shelling out thousands of dollars to subsidize resident hunters’ outdoor hobbies.

Win-win,win,win, win!
 
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Or, hunt private lands. Perfect solution. All the animals are fed, sheltered, managed and appreciated.....along with our livestock! Oh, and we get free tags to boot. Life is just getting better and better!

PS: I like the NR hunters.....alot!
 
To me these rules are nauseating, and I completely agree with the OP. The hypocrisy in these kinds of rules bewilders me. NYS has a SEQRA process and do you think it stops much if anything at all? Absolutely not!! Intentions are good, implementation as a practical matter are a whole different arena. Habitat loss and destruction are THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR DECLINING WILDLIFE POPULATIONS. Cumulatively, silly rules like this that are virtually 100% unenforceable are "feel good" measures that make it look like the DNR or whatever is doing something for wildlife and justify methods to bloat staffing budgets. Do they want to really do something for wildlife? Let's repurpose and restrict the use of building and development on open spaces and require re-development in already developed areas that are in decline. This will save more wildlife then trampling the individual rights of hunters who, through the Pittman-Roberston Act fund the majority of Wildlife Conservation in this entire country already. Let 'em shed hunt!!
 
To me these rules are nauseating, and I completely agree with the OP. The hypocrisy in these kinds of rules bewilders me. NYS has a SEQRA process and do you think it stops much if anything at all? Absolutely not!! Intentions are good, implementation as a practical matter are a whole different arena. Habitat loss and destruction are THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR DECLINING WILDLIFE POPULATIONS. Cumulatively, silly rules like this that are virtually 100% unenforceable are "feel good" measures that make it look like the DNR or whatever is doing something for wildlife and justify methods to bloat staffing budgets. Do they want to really do something for wildlife? Let's repurpose and restrict the use of building and development on open spaces and require re-development in already developed areas that are in decline. This will save more wildlife then trampling the individual rights of hunters who, through the Pittman-Roberston Act fund the majority of Wildlife Conservation in this entire country already. Let 'em shed hunt!!

until you start producing on the “stopping manifest destiny” front, I’ll continue to support regulation that is clearly all upside, small though it may be.

why does it have to be one or the other?

by the way, I have no disagreement with you on the biggest lick we can take. I just differ on not doing small things that can help. Even ones that appear to be ginned up by a pseudo political rival tribe…
 
To me these rules are nauseating, and I completely agree with the OP. The hypocrisy in these kinds of rules bewilders me. NYS has a SEQRA process and do you think it stops much if anything at all? Absolutely not!! Intentions are good, implementation as a practical matter are a whole different arena. Habitat loss and destruction are THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR DECLINING WILDLIFE POPULATIONS. Cumulatively, silly rules like this that are virtually 100% unenforceable are "feel good" measures that make it look like the DNR or whatever is doing something for wildlife and justify methods to bloat staffing budgets. Do they want to really do something for wildlife? Let's repurpose and restrict the use of building and development on open spaces and require re-development in already developed areas that are in decline. This will save more wildlife then trampling the individual rights of hunters who, through the Pittman-Roberston Act fund the majority of Wildlife Conservation in this entire country already. Let 'em shed hunt!!

I'm not up to speed on SEQRA.

But I'd say NYS is too liberal with doe permits, and too restrictive on selective timbering. Less deer and less habitat.

I don't know the landscape in CO at all. I know our herd has had a struggle with the freeze thaw cycle this year in WNY, and if deer season was open any fool could trim the herd to critical numbers. And we got a lot of fools.
 
Now….it’s spiraling. People living 1500 miles away, that have never been “out west” or hunted in the mountains, or even shed hunted in the state of CO, are writing proclamations and solutions to their perceptions of the “issue” that should be adopted. LOL. How cute.
 
Now….it’s spiraling. People living 1500 miles away, that have never been “out west” or hunted in the mountains, or even shed hunted in the state of CO, are writing proclamations and solutions to their perceptions of the “issue” that should be adopted. LOL. How cute.

OP is from VA.
 
until you start producing on the “stopping manifest destiny” front, I’ll continue to support regulation that is clearly all upside, small though it may be.

why does it have to be one or the other?

by the way, I have no disagreement with you on the biggest lick we can take. I just differ on not doing small things that can help. Even ones that appear to be ginned up by a pseudo political rival tribe…
But its the cumulative effect of all of these "small things" that add up to overreach. I get that we can't be blazing down the trails in our ATV, chuckin' beer bottles all over the place and dumping your sewage in the lakes and streams. But to let people use the trails and "Worry Wildlife" in my opinion is no different than the amount of "Worry" that's imparted to animals by some shed hunting. As a matter of fact, (and perhaps there is some research that Colorado's DNR is citing that shows otherwise) but disturbance is disturbance. Now I was out shed hunting yesterday on private. The deer were right out in the field after my dog and I left. I never found anything so one could say I worried those deer unnecessarily. One could also see the 36 deer in the same field this morning before work and determine that they weren't disturbed at all. I don't want to be argumentative, and I get that we as hunters care about the wildlife resource. But these bureaucrats can really make some decisions that in a snapshot of time may not seem like much, but again, over years..... add up to a lot of individual rights completely eroded away. I just caution that we continue to live by my little Mark Twain Mantra signature below at all times. Especially as it relates to public policy development and implementation.
 
My words about "Worrying" wildlife are purposeful. In our regulations, to hunt means to "worry wildlife" in the DEC's definitions. Several years ago a hunter was being harassed by antis on the opening day of I believe small game season. He was a perfectly licensed and non-violating hunter on public land going about his business. These antis were walking along by him hollering and banging pots and pans and trying to harass the hunter to make him stop hunting. The hunter called the DEC and the ECO did the absolutely right thing.... he ticketed the other people out there "worrying wildlife without a license." That stopped that BS right away in that area.
 
Now….it’s spiraling. People living 1500 miles away, that have never been “out west” or hunted in the mountains, or even shed hunted in the state of CO, are writing proclamations and solutions to their perceptions of the “issue” that should be adopted. LOL. How cute.
Lets lift each other up brother hunter. Lets do it! You are blessed you live out there in those beautiful mountains. I see all sides, just personally feel rules like this are "superfluous" as the little Who from Whoville said on Ron Howards verson of the Grinch. Love the opinions and the bantering about it. Good to see and review all sides.
 
But its the cumulative effect of all of these "small things" that add up to overreach. I get that we can't be blazing down the trails in our ATV, chuckin' beer bottles all over the place and dumping your sewage in the lakes and streams. But to let people use the trails and "Worry Wildlife" in my opinion is no different than the amount of "Worry" that's imparted to animals by some shed hunting. As a matter of fact, (and perhaps there is some research that Colorado's DNR is citing that shows otherwise) but disturbance is disturbance. Now I was out shed hunting yesterday on private. The deer were right out in the field after my dog and I left. I never found anything so one could say I worried those deer unnecessarily. One could also see the 36 deer in the same field this morning before work and determine that they weren't disturbed at all. I don't want to be argumentative, and I get that we as hunters care about the wildlife resource. But these bureaucrats can really make some decisions that in a snapshot of time may not seem like much, but again, over years..... add up to a lot of individual rights completely eroded away. I just caution that we continue to live by my little Mark Twain Mantra signature below at all times. Especially as it relates to public policy development and implementation.

Hiker/biker/hippie walks on trail, cow elk and calves (born or unborn doesn’t matter) relocate to a slightly less desirable place in wintering ground. Not good, but not worse case. There’s plenty of places to hide. Shed hunter finds herd of elk in spotting scope in their new hide. Sees a couple bulls sporting bloody bases. Walks directly into that herd’s location to find sheds. This forces those cows(and bulls) to relocate once again to less desirable wintering hides, while burning precious calories along the way while almost all food is under feet of snow. Rinse, repeat, following herds around. With intense focus and effort. Hikers/bikers/hippies just keep walking same single track…

How do you not see the difference between those two things? You’re clearly missing a lot of context. This isn’t some random overreach. And if you’re going to accuse the folks paid and incentivized to make these calls, feel free to produce evidence that what they’re doing is not based on sound data. They have no reason to lie. And the ones that we can make up require a serious coordination effort to pull off the lie.
 
Hiker/biker/hippie walks on trail, cow elk and calves (born or unborn doesn’t matter) relocate to a slightly less desirable place in wintering ground. Not good, but not worse case. There’s plenty of places to hide. Shed hunter finds herd of elk in spotting scope in their new hide. Sees a couple bulls sporting bloody bases. Walks directly into that herd’s location to find sheds. This forces those cows(and bulls) to relocate once again to less desirable wintering hides, while burning precious calories along the way while almost all food is under feet of snow. Rinse, repeat, following herds around. With intense focus and effort. Hikers/bikers/hippies just keep walking same single track…

How do you not see the difference between those two things? You’re clearly missing a lot of context. This isn’t some random overreach. And if you’re going to accuse the folks paid and incentivized to make these calls, feel free to produce evidence that what they’re doing is not based on sound data. They have no reason to lie. And the ones that we can make up require a serious coordination effort to pull off the lie.

this is also why the spin of the OP is annoying.

it puts the concept into your already existing box of “gubment overreach”. We probably agree on a million things that are that.

but arbitrarily assigning something that’s pretty thought Out, into that box, is annoying too.

I do think not being able to keep a shed legally on wildlife refuges I hunt in eastern half of US is annoying. But I get the rule. If it wasn’t there, public land use dynamics would change for the worse for my hunting. Small price to pay. Plus, if I want a shed or a deadhead, that I randomly find on a legal hunt or scout, I’m not worried about laws intended to deter a completely different thing….
 
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