Nope. I've swore off arguing it. Just gonna keep posting kill pics with my 350 grain twizzler/flapper combo until the tide turns. Then I'll buy all the heavy stuff on the classifieds and hunt with that!
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Lack of penetration has me going to a two blade.
- Thread starter Flee
- Start date
What are the thresholds you're trying to maintain? It's not like momentum or energy fall off a cliff.
I thought the saying was "there's no replacement for shot placement "
Bowmanmike
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What diameter is the 4 blade head? If you shoot a two blade with of the same width it would take almost only half the energy to go through the bone. Even better if you go single bevel. I was amazed at the effectiveness of my samurai 125gr on a neck shot. Nothing hard was hit but the cutting action of a razor sharp two blade head killed that deer for me.
It is also true that there are parts on the shoulder that almost no arrow will go through.
It is also true that there are parts on the shoulder that almost no arrow will go through.
I agree that my DL/DW have limitations. And I believe I possibly hit the shoulder dead square which didn’t help. The head is 1&3/16.
I’m heavily considering single bevel as well. I just tend to believe that a single bevel would have at least went through to the opposite leg.
As far as the heavy arrow movement I’m a believer. But I also am not critical of light set ups either. For myself the only downfall to a heavy setup is yardage but that’s already a factor for me with my DL so it’s basically null and void. I stay within 30yds. So I have a 20 and 30 yard pin regardless of arrow weight and I’ve shot both heavy and light setups to compare and at those distances the pin gaps don’t substantially change.
I’m heavily considering single bevel as well. I just tend to believe that a single bevel would have at least went through to the opposite leg.
As far as the heavy arrow movement I’m a believer. But I also am not critical of light set ups either. For myself the only downfall to a heavy setup is yardage but that’s already a factor for me with my DL so it’s basically null and void. I stay within 30yds. So I have a 20 and 30 yard pin regardless of arrow weight and I’ve shot both heavy and light setups to compare and at those distances the pin gaps don’t substantially change.
kenn1320
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You hit a bone. Ive blown through shoulder blades, broke leg bones, but had one stop solid hitting the hard spot on the shoulder blade to bone and that was with a 200gr tusker concord 2 blade from a 70lb compound.
Don't sweat your DL, your fine. Guys are killing deer with longbows for crying out loud with less energy than you get from that setup. I shot a doe once with a kids bow. 25"ish draw and 32lbs, old high country solo cam. 2 blade and 15yd shot, dead. Check your tune and stop crowding the shoulder.
Don't sweat your DL, your fine. Guys are killing deer with longbows for crying out loud with less energy than you get from that setup. I shot a doe once with a kids bow. 25"ish draw and 32lbs, old high country solo cam. 2 blade and 15yd shot, dead. Check your tune and stop crowding the shoulder.
I've spent a bunch of time thinking about it, and only have anecdotal support, at best. But my real world real feel says 500-600 grain arrows, shot at 250fps+, under 30 yards, with a cut on contact 2 blade razor sharp broadhead will poke through any part of a whitetail, enough so to get to the goodies. If we want to be really conservative, you can say that it won't bust through the shoulder knuckle every time. But if I had a way to set up the experiment, I'd bet it would.
At that draw and weight, that range drops to something like 20 yards to be able to maintain both trajectory, and time to target.
In my experience, being good enough to get deer to 20 yards, ain't no different than 30 yards.
You've been smoking that cheap crack again, haven't you?
0-1 is the hustle. 1-1.1 is just consumerism...
If 250fps is ok to 30 yards (time to target), you gotta be all the way down at 167fps before you have the same time to target at 20 yards. I'm curious what math puts the original poster even close to that slow.
Time to target is part of it, but Trajectory is the bigger issue, for me, at that point - I'm a proponent of aim a single pin where you want to hit, regardless of distance, and send it. I want to be able to hit +-3" of where I aim without thinking.
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I don't see limiting yourself to 20 yards or less just because that's your limit where you think you can break heavy bone. Or even changing your setup radically to bust through the few heavy bone spots near the vitals (but that's just me).
I'd flip the script a bit and say "limit yourself to the range at which you can shoot well enough to not hit heavy bone" not the range at which you can break the head of a humerus. That's always going to be a toss up with a bow. Bones have a grain and variability just like wood. I know I've hit a few hickory logs funny and hardly buried the axe.
Again, 250fps being good to 30 yards but ~235 only to 20 seems kinda sketchy.
Agree, to an extent. If you can do it with one pin, i'm for it. If you need multiple pins, and a rangefinder to be able to do it, it's a losing bet.
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Us middle aged dudes that grew up shooting slow bows and aluminum arrows have a different perspective. We didn't even have affordable laser range finders back then. All kinds of people shot around 230 fps and shot way past 20 yards.
expand. 250+, allows a single pin to shoot +-3" from 5-30 yards. Dropping below that speed requires you to shorten range, or go to multiple pins. I favor the former over the latter, especially for shooters having to ask the question...
kenn1320
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I agree.. Before my time but Howard Hill killed big game over 100yds away with a longbow.
And you were forced into habits, equipment, and circumstances that don't exist today. I have no moral or ethical qualms about taking low risk shots at deer and wounding or missing them. I sleep at night fine. I just think about the current environment, the state of the art, and the ability/focus/attention span/confidence level of the typical hunter these days. Again - if a fellow has his heels dug in, he'll figure it out without the help of an internet forum. That's my point - if you're hell bent on sticking arrows in deer, the best way to do it is to do it. But if someone is gonna ask for help on the interwebs, I'm going to offer a down the middle, KISS, reasonable method to put deer on the ground.
swampsnyper
Well-Known Member
I just looked at a tooth of the arrow broadhead pic. It’s kinda inbetween what I think a cut on contact and a chisel point would be. I think a 2 blade cut on contact head would help. How much it would help on a shoulder hit.... guess it depends on where on the shoulder. But your chances are better with the 2 blade in my opinion. Wouldn’t hurt to change. I shoot a 55# longbow at 25in with grizzly 2 blades on an Easton axis arrow. I think my finished arrows are around 590-600gr. I feel like I’m in the balanced area between speed and penetration for my liking.
Sure, but if he shoots say a 500ish grain arrow in the 230s he can still do that out to 25 yards (and the number I've seen for 250fps is actually 27 yards) with ~90% of the takedown power of a guy shooting that arrow at 250. Or go multipin.
There are options between 20 and 30 yards.
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I have no issue with multi pins. And I have no issues out to 30yards with a 500-600 grain two blade set up. I didn’t aim for the shoulder but it obviously happens. However, I think the chances of hitting that exact same spot are small. I practice a lot. I want to be as ethical as possible. I feel out to 30 is completely doable with my DL and. Two blade or even single bevel. I prefer everything within that classic 17-23 yards which most bow kills happen.