Let's talk liver shot deer

[slonstdy]

I dropped a doe on Friday night when I got home from work which has me questioning the accepted practice of waiting 6 - 8 hours before attempting to recover a liver hit deer.

There were three of them calmly feeding in my backyard food plot which is the first time they've been in there during daylight hours. Shooting light was fading quickly and If I mention the distance of the shot I'll probably get banned from this site (the sum of the digits is 8...). I didn't see the hit and thought I missed as I watched them run away in separate directions. That was until I retrieved the arrow which had a trace of blood, no guts or stomach contents but there was the sweet smell of body cavity. This told me the hit was back. I went out to search for her 6 hours later and found her lying on the trail next to the plot not more than 15 yards from where she was standing when the arrow hit her. Necropsy revealed a hole punched through the center of the liver.

Additional data:
- The temperature was 58* at the time of the shot and 45* at retrieval with clear skies/low humidity
- Her belly was bloated and tight as a drum and her body was in rigor
- The arrow was a complete pass through shot from ground level while standing
- Entry was between the 7th and 8th ribs and the exit hole was between the 8th and 9th ribs
- The entry was at the centerline of her body or just below it (hard to pinpoint because of the swelling)
- There was no blood coming from her mouth or nose and I'm pretty sure the chest cavity didn't have blood in it until I cut the diaphram to get to the heart
- The heart was intact

The one thing I didn't do and wish I did was check to see if the lungs were hit and there were a few reasons for this:
- the arrow had very little blood on it
- there was no blood around her mouth and nose
- after seeing the liver was hit I assumed the hit was too far back to hit the lungs
- I was pressed for time and had to leave for work

I have a trail cam overlooking the food plot that captured the sequence of events and it tells an interesting story:
- at 6:04 pm, the doe was captured running from the plot towards the hillside after being hit
- at 6:08 pm, I can be seen driving along the hillside trail on my quad holding the recovered arrow
- at 8:14 pm a single doe walked into view from behind the camera. What it also captured In this picture is my doe lying dead in the background
- at 12:07 am, there's a pic of me walking towards the doe

So sometime after I rode by on the quad and before the second doe came in to the plot to feed, my doe returned from the hillside and expired. The time stamp on the pictures show that the doe was alive for no longer than 2 hours and 6 minutes after being hit. All of this data has led me to further questions and I'd like to hear your thoughts and theories on what I have presented. Here are some that could use answers:

- Is there a major artery near the liver that I may have hit?
- From the shot placement, is it possible I hit a lung or both? If so, then why wasn't her chest cavity filled? Also, isn't it true that lung hits at the back end don't bleed much and deer do survive those?
- Assuming the liver was the only major organ hit, doesn't it seem that she expired rather quickly?

Every deer that I knew I hit the liver bedded down almost immediately within 50 yards. I wonder why this one went up the hillside and then returned. Was it to feed? Or maybe cross the plot to get to the stream to drink water?

 

[Nutterbuster]

Solid liver hits are extremely lethal. I've shot several deer and hogs in the liver and with a 2" broadhead they will die within sight in my experience.

A gut shot that somebody is wishing was a liver hit is a different story, and it can be impossible to tell the difference. I think that's why the recommendation is to wait.

 

[BTaylor]

I have had I think 5 kills that were liver hits including the doe this year. That deer this year was by far the longest recovery at 257 yards but it was all downhill. Never had or seen a liver hit deer run over 150 on flat ground. Never seen one that was still alive an hour after the shot either. If I know or suspect the hit was back I still give them some time, couple hours but all have been stiff on recovery.

 

[Kurt]

I agree with Nutter, liver hits are lethal. I've had two liver hits in my time, the most notable a doe I shot at 10 yds, all she did was take a couple of steps stood there for about 5 seconds did a whole body shiver and tipped over, she never even lifted her head.

 

[kyler1945]

Without knowing any terrain features, wind direction and it's relation to you, your buggy, the deer, the plot, etc., or any other of about 50 important variables...

It's entirely possible she moved at sound or sight of your buggy and expired immediately after you passed by. Or moved to spot of death immediately, laid down, and died minutes or hours later. Or a coyote bumped her there. Or she wanted water. Or she felt good enough to follow one of her herd mates. Or any other of a million reasons.

If you hit the dorsal aorta cleanly, she'd be upside down within about 15 seconds. But you'd be up higher than mid body on the deer.

If you hit liver and lung, you punctured the diaphragm. This would be obvious when taking deer apart. If there was no blood in the chest cavity it's unlikely, but not impossible I reckon, to have punctured the chest cavity (through diaphragm or ribs). Blood pressure would push blood into it.


I offer no advice on how long to wait for deer to expire. There's general consensus you're pointing to. But it's only got a little to do with how long it takes a deer to die from a hit to the liver. More about the dynamic nature of things, and that you could be wrong about where you hit it.

 

[PEEJAY]

def didnt hit BOTH lungs and liver. could have clipped one, the liver is pressed right up against em. Both lungs hit would be dead within a minute or 2. Some liver hits do more damage than others. THeres veins and arteries running through all that and if you centerpunched that liver you prolly hit something good. If you clipped the outside corner it would have still died but took longer.

 

[Arrowsquirrel]

I agree with nutter that liver hits are lethal in short order. The problem with any discussion like this is projecting it onto another kill. Without exact understanding of what's cut on your next kill it's all just speculation. Even with video evidence it's sometimes hard to know what's hit in there, much less if we are trying to remember it all. I think any shot that seems like it was back just needs to be treated as guts unless you like feeding coyotes.

 

[Maverick1]

I had a liver hit deer go about 800 yards once. That was unusual. (Didn’t hit much else other than liver - no lungs, no guts.).

 

[Phopkins]

Liver shot deer die at variable rates depending on the part of the liver that you hit and what size the broadhead is. The liver bleeds more slowly than other organs like lungs. How slowly depends on many factors you can't discern from entry and exit locations. If you decide to follow up all liver shot deer in an hour prepare to lose some unless you're shooting a very big, very sharp broadhead.

Having said that I last liver shot a buck 3 years ago. He died within sight and in about 15 seconds. Shot with a tree shark. The deer was full of blood like I've rarely seen.

 

[krub6b]

I watched a liver shot buck tip over in 20 yards one time, but the shot was high and I think I clipped the artery along the spine as well. This buck only took a short hop away from impact sight, I watched with horror as I realized I hit too far back and "knew" I had gut shot him. he walked rather slowly to the field edge and acted like he would bed down, then flopped over dead as a hammer. No evidence of punctured guts or lungs.

The liver is full of vessels but from front to back not a large target and pretty much always coincides with gut shots. Calling a pure liver shot on a deer is very low odds in my opinion. If a lung hit isn't evident, then I would assume guts and wait it out

 

[hokiehunter373]

I'll ask you this: besides less sleep and having to rush off to work, what did waiting the extra time hurt?

 

[Plebe]

Combining long shots and shortened recovery attempts doesn't add up imo.

 

[redsquirrel]

Liver shot deer die at variable rates depending on the part of the liver that you hit and what size the broadhead is. The liver bleeds more slowly than other organs like lungs. How slowly depends on many factors you can't discern from entry and exit locations. If you decide to follow up all liver shot deer in an hour prepare to lose some unless you're shooting a very big, very sharp broadhead.

Having said that I last liver shot a buck 3 years ago. He died within sight and in about 15 seconds. Shot with a tree shark. The deer was full of blood like I've rarely seen.

I completely agree with this. I've had liver deer die very quickly, and I've jumped them after waiting 8 hours. It is always better to wait if you suspect it's a liver (or gut) shot. Certain areas of the liver seem to cause results. I suspect that certain areas have smaller/larger blood vessels and this contributes to them bleeding out quicker. 2 years ago I put a 2" hole through only a portion of the liver, I would call it the left lateral part of the liver, and I jumped him 7 hours later. I don't know how much longer he lived but when I recovered him 22 hours after the shot he was not stiff which makes me suspect he lived well into the night. You wouldn't believe the amount of blood that came out of him in the first 100 yards before his first bed. I could watch it pour out of him as he walked off.

I'm a huge fan of when it doubt back out if you know you put a lethal shot on a deer that might be back. You have to use all of the information available to you to make educated decisions. There was a thread recently where I saw some people state how they saw no need for lighted nocks. I strongly disagree with that. I started shooting pink fletchings with pink arrow wraps before lighted nocks were pope and young legal because they gave my eye just a little more information to go on for the shot. Now I shot them with lighted nocks and I can almost always tell you exactly where I hit. Also, if you do bump a liver or gut shot deer after waiting 8 hours it is much less likely to be able to run to a place you can't find it than it is if you bump it right away. Many times they are hurting so bad they will just bounce off and try to bed again ASAP.

 

[elk yinzer]

Here's the thing, it's basically impossible to hit just liver the way it is tucked up against the stomach and diaphragm.

If you get the center mass of the liver where all the blood vessels are, you're catching lungs too and deer is dead on it's feet. But if you just catch the outer lobes that isn't bleeding the deer out the same way, you will have evidence of a gut shot also, and you should treat it like a gut shot. It's going to take hours. Hard to tell the two shots apart unless you see the deer go down, thus why waiting is considered best practice.

 

[redsquirrel]

Here's the thing, it's basically impossible to hit just liver the way it is tucked up against the stomach and diaphragm.

If you get the center mass of the liver where all the blood vessels are, you're catching lungs too and deer is dead on it's feet. But if you just catch the outer lobes that isn't bleeding the deer out the same way, you will have evidence of a gut shot also, and you should treat it like a gut shot. It's going to take hours. Hard to tell the two shots apart unless you see the deer go down, thus why waiting is considered best practice.

I agree with you... almost always. There are always exceptions! Pics coming...

 

[redsquirrel]

This shot was a little low but I wasn't that high up. Some how it only caught the liver. This is the one that I jumped after 7 hours. Not my corn in his belly lol.

 

[tyson12590]

Phopkins and redsquirrel are exactly right. Not all liver hits are created equal. I have seen them die quick and I have seen them live for 12 hours. I tracked a tiny doe my buddy center punched the liver on and after an hour and a half it was still alive and alert. We finished it off and could not believe how it survived that long with a ton of liver damage. I think the liver is a complex organ and certain parts of it produce faster hemorrhaging than others. When possible to track without bumping the deer I try to gauge my approach by the amount of blood in the first 50 yards. If there is a lot of dark blood I feel better only waiting an hour or two. If it is medium to minimum blood I try to give it 6 hours depending on other variables. It is not always possible to track the first 50 yards without bumping the deer but this has worked well for me.

 

[Plebe]

Here's the thing, it's basically impossible to hit just liver the way it is tucked up against the stomach and diaphragm.

If you get the center mass of the liver where all the blood vessels are, you're catching lungs too and deer is dead on it's feet. But if you just catch the outer lobes that isn't bleeding the deer out the same way, you will have evidence of a gut shot also, and you should treat it like a gut shot. It's going to take hours. Hard to tell the two shots apart unless you see the deer go down, thus why waiting is considered best practice.

A liver and single lung hit can still take quite awhile to cause expiration.

My brother hit one like that. We were jamming a finger of brush, hunting both sides. He shot a buck and watched it walk to the point of that finger where I then could see the buck, which turned and walked to where I could arrow it. This, all about 100 yards travelled. The buck never bed, and it was over an hour before he made it to me and I put him out.

The stomach was not cut, it was a single lung and liver hit.

 

[elk yinzer]

They are tough animals.

This was the most head-scratchingest one I ever killed. It lived at least 8 hours, unfortunately. Couldn't believe it. I thought I ten ringed it. Entry perfect, but it was quartering-too more than I thought.

Thought I saw where the arrow hit and thought for sure I'd see her go down. Ok, guess not. Check arrow, had the funk, so I gave her some time to be safe, it was pretty cool out. Jumped her about 8 hours later, she was bedded only about 75 yards from the shot. She only went another 50 to where she died but it was getting dark and she went into a mountain laurel jungle so we let her go overnight. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have gone back a couple hours later but we went back the next morning and only about 1/2 the meat was salvageable. Autopsy...one lung hit pretty much center mass, one lung nicked, liver, and stomach all hit.

 

[Plebe]

They are tough animals.

This was the most head-scratchingest one I ever killed. It lived at least 8 hours, unfortunately. Couldn't believe it. I thought I ten ringed it. Entry perfect, but it was quartering-too more than I thought.

Thought I saw where the arrow hit and thought for sure I'd see her go down. Ok, guess not. Check arrow, had the funk, so I gave her some time to be safe, it was pretty cool out. Jumped her about 8 hours later, she was bedded only about 75 yards from the shot. She only went another 50 to where she died but it was getting dark and she went into a mountain laurel jungle so we let her go overnight. Hindsight being 20/20 I would have gone back a couple hours later but we went back the next morning and only about 1/2 the meat was salvageable. Autopsy...one lung hit pretty much center mass, one lung nicked, liver, and stomach all hit.

View attachment 74053

That's the entry cut, right?

Crazy, I'd have thought you'd have demolished the lung on that side even with a pretty strong quarter.

I'd have thought @redsquirrel would have got at least one lung too, even with the lower hit.

It's helpful to see this.