Linemans rope safety

[Black Titan]

Stumbled across this video in my feed and watched it. Just wondering about some of ya'lls thoughts on this method. I try to climb with both my linesmans and tether when one sticking, to hopefully be as safe as possible. But it becomes pretty apparent when even doing that, there is no way to eliminate slack and it can be a PITA some times, especially with the weight of my madrock pulling my rapel and quick link down the tree. It seems this may be a good method but I'm not sure.

The one issue I see is with inducing so much slack, if the stick were to fail or if there is a slip, there's no way that linemans belt is keeping you from taking the express elevator to the ground, especially on a smooth barked tree. BUT, if climbing with a tether attached also, that would hopefully keep you from going that far.

What say ye of more experience than I?

And, @Brocky - do you think your crossed ends linemans technique mentioned in another thread would alleviate the slack situation and prevent a potential slide to the ground?

BT

 

[Marmuzz]

I didn’t watch the video as I’m at work, but I think it’s important to consider that viewing violent ground impact as the only fall risk in one sticking is drastically incomplete. Even a “caught” fall on a slacked tether that keeps you from going all the way down, if severe enough, could induce a huge shock load, possibly enough to be fatal. Using a linesman belt in such a fall will hopefully interrupt a straight fall that generates lots of force, but instead bangs and scrapes you into the tree enough to stop a sudden slam when the tether engages; injuries to your body and head consequent of smashing into a tree notwithstanding.

Maybe you’re already considering that or that’s not exactly what you meant. I just want to point that out whenever one stickers talk about how a tether is superior to a linesman belt in the event of a fall.

 

[Black Titan]

I didn’t watch the video as I’m at work, but I think it’s important to consider that viewing violent ground impact as the only fall risk in one sticking is drastically incomplete. Even a “caught” fall on a slacked tether that keeps you from going all the way down, if severe enough, could induce a huge shock load, possibly enough to be fatal. Using a linesman belt in such a fall will hopefully interrupt a straight fall that generates lots of force, but instead bangs and scrapes you into the tree enough to stop a sudden slam when the tether engages; injuries to your body and head consequent of smashing into a tree notwithstanding.

Maybe you’re already considering that or that’s not exactly what you meant. I just want to point that out whenever one stickers talk about how a tether is superior to a linesman belt in the event of a fall.

Yeah I certainly didn't mean the ground fall being the only major danger. I would hope that the linemans would generate a swing into the tree, slowing the fall into the slack tether. Of course there can be injuries there too.

I'm just trying to figure out the safest way to do it without inducing too much slack into either line. The video intrigued me and made me curious on what others think. Using both to climb is difficult, but for me when I'm moving my tether up after advancing up the stick, I have my linemans tight and I'm only about 8 inches from the tree while leaning back slightly to keep tension, while I'm adjusting my tether up the tree.

I didn't mean to insinuate the tether is superior, because I know there's risks there as well. Only saying that after the linemans swings you into the tree, the tether should prevent a slide all the way to the ground.

BT

 

[Marmuzz]

Yeah, doesn’t matter if it’s all the way to the ground or at the end of your tether, it’s the rapid deceleration that kills you. The goal is manage slack to prevent that much momentum from developing in the first place. Towards that end for one sticking, I only climb on one aider step below my stick, advance the tether every single step, and use my linesman belt as tightly as possible on every step to minimize a straight fall if a slip or stick failure happens.

 

[heretic]

Oh man, so many complaints about this video. I believe the most glaring is the abuse/mis-use of terms.

The guy literally says "induce slack into your system" after which he immediately removes slack by leaning back into his lineman's belt and introduces tension. This is not slack. This is a misnomer. This is dangerous because someone who doesn't have a lot of experience climbing trees is going to think "okay, slack is good" and they'll probably get away with it for some time until they get comfortable and take a nasty fall.

I'm so tired of these dime a dozen "how to saddle hunt" videos that are just regurgitating second and third hand knowledge without any of the experience behind these techniques.

If you produce videos and have an audience, please don't do this! Do yourself (and your viewers) a favor and just reference/link the source material/videos of actual arborists/linesmen/rock climbers. This game of telephone is going to get someone killed.

 

[GeoFish]

Good video. One of the few I have seen done right.

 

[Black Titan]

Yeah, doesn’t matter if it’s all the way to the ground or at the end of your tether, it’s the rapid deceleration that kills you. The goal is manage slack to prevent that much momentum from developing in the first place. Towards that end for one sticking, I only climb on one aider step below my stick, advance the tether every single step, and use my linesman belt as tightly as possible on every step to minimize a straight fall if a slip or stick failure happens.

This is pretty much what I do, running that tether up every step. I only use a 2 step aider. Tried a 3 and just felt unstable. The biggest risk period for me seems to be when moving from my bottom step to the top step. I usually end up chest level with my tether on this move with slack, but I still keep my linemans rope tight.

Do you have any tips on moving both up simultaneously while avoiding slack? I have had issues with leaning in and up to move my tether as high as possible, and my linemans falls to below my waist level.

BT

 

[Black Titan]

Oh man, so many complaints about this video. I believe the most glaring is the abuse/mis-use of terms.

The guy literally says "induce slack into your system" after which he immediately removes slack by leaning back into his lineman's belt and introduces tension. This is not slack. This is a misnomer. This is dangerous because someone who doesn't have a lot of experience climbing trees is going to think "okay, slack is good" and they'll probably get away with it for some time until they get comfortable and take a nasty fall.

I'm so tired of these dime a dozen "how to saddle hunt" videos that are just regurgitating second and third hand knowledge without any of the experience behind these techniques.

If you produce videos and have an audience, please don't do this! Do yourself (and your viewers) a favor and just reference/link the source material/videos of actual arborists/linesmen/rock climbers. This game of telephone is going to get someone killed.

The ones that get me are the folks that don't use a linemans and climb a three step aider and a 18" stick, and hug the tree with one arm while fishing for their tether and quick link. Or the ones that climb up their second move and their tether is at their ankles. Yeah, you may only be 7 feet up in a tree, but if your 6 foot tall that puts your head at 13 feet.

BT

 

[GeoFish]

The ones that get me are the folks that don't use a linemans and climb a three step aider and a 18" stick, and hug the tree with one arm while fishing for their tether and quick link. Or the ones that climb up their second move and their tether is at their ankles. Yeah, you may only be 7 feet up in a tree, but if your 6 foot tall that puts your head at 13 feet.

BT

Staggs in the Wild!

 

[Blacksmith]

Yeah I certainly didn't mean the ground fall being the only major danger. I would hope that the linemans would generate a swing into the tree, slowing the fall into the slack tether. Of course there can be injuries there too.

I'm just trying to figure out the safest way to do it without inducing too much slack into either line. The video intrigued me and made me curious on what others think. Using both to climb is difficult, but for me when I'm moving my tether up after advancing up the stick, I have my linemans tight and I'm only about 8 inches from the tree while leaning back slightly to keep tension, while I'm adjusting my tether up the tree.

I didn't mean to insinuate the tether is superior, because I know there's risks there as well. Only saying that after the linemans swings you into the tree, the tether should prevent a slide all the way to the ground.

BT

Not to redirect the OP but someone said they cross over their LB rather than going around the tree and onto opposite side. Now I cannot find it but has anyone tried that or see anything wrong w/it? Seems like it could stop you quicker.

 

[arm breaker]

Staggs in the Wild!

There is lots to like about his content and efforts with the videos for sure, but he also acts like he has been doing all these things for decades when its verifiably obvious (by reading articles and watching his videos) he learned them in recent years. There's nothing wrong with that except it portrays an authority and history that simply don't exist.

 

[GeoFish]

There is lots to like about his content and efforts with the videos for sure, but he also acts like he has been doing all these things for decades when its verifiably obvious (by reading articles and watching his videos) he learned them in recent years. There's nothing wrong with that except it portrays an authority and history that simply don't exist.

My comment has to do with his climbing videos. When he 1 sticks he takes 3 or 4 steps with that much slack in his tether. When he climbes with sticks his linesman rope is below his knees way to often. I am sure he is a nice guy, but he is going to get someone killed.

 

[BTaylor]

Would have been spot on if he had said lengthen your linemans rope to the appropriate length for proper climbing technique.

 

[arm breaker]

My comment has to do with his climbing videos. When he 1 sticks he takes 3 or 4 steps with that much slack in his tether. When he climbes with sticks his linesman rope is below his knees way to often. I am sure he is a nice guy, but he is going to get someone killed.

I hear you and knew what you meant for sure. I’m just adding his effort to generate credibility and authority is based on something less than genuine:

 

[Marmuzz]

Okay just watched it. No, I don’t like his advice. He’s basically saying allow enough slack in your LB to move comfortably. While there is something to be said for nimble movements being maybe more secure and safe (at least more than fighting the rope with your knee or being off balance), I think the LB is intended to keep you close to the tree. I would rather he said to loosen it only just enough to allow you to move to gain secure footing for your next step but keep it as tight as possible. But like most one sticking videos it looks like he’s prioritizing speed. His main point is rely on the LB to keep you safe while looking right past the fact that he’s climbing a three-step aider which by the time he’s reached the top will have introduced very generous slack in his tether.

 

[Marmuzz]

Not directing this at anybody in particular, this topic is just one that gets me fired up.

I much prefer this video; see 7:00-11:30. This is the first video I’ve seen that was honest about one sticking dangers and gave what I find to be reasonable advice to minimize the risks. People will no doubt complain his advice is too slow and reply with what he says, i.e. “Well I’ve just accepted the risks [because I value scrambling up the tree ASAP]!!” Sorry, I think that’s stupid. It’ll cost you seconds to minutes more per stick placement to tighten and release your LB and advance your tether while managing slack as best as possible when one sticking. The downsides of an accident could be huge. The downsides of implementing these steps is… it takes an extra five minutes to reach hunting height??

That said, there’s still times I wonder if this is enough and ponder leaving one sticking altogether for 2TC. Same challenges and risks, but quite abbreviated by shorter distances.

 

[Brocky]

Stumbled across this video in my feed and watched it. Just wondering about some of ya'lls thoughts on this method. I try to climb with both my linesmans and tether when one sticking, to hopefully be as safe as possible. But it becomes pretty apparent when even doing that, there is no way to eliminate slack and it can be a PITA some times, especially with the weight of my madrock pulling my rapel and quick link down the tree. It seems this may be a good method but I'm not sure.

The one issue I see is with inducing so much slack, if the stick were to fail or if there is a slip, there's no way that linemans belt is keeping you from taking the express elevator to the ground, especially on a smooth barked tree. BUT, if climbing with a tether attached also, that would hopefully keep you from going that far.

What say ye of more experience than I?

And, @Brocky - do you think your crossed ends linemans technique mentioned in another thread would alleviate the slack situation and prevent a potential slide to the ground?

BT

I just recently found the technique, and have only tested at ground level. When crossed, I slipped a little and then it caught, parallel it just kept sliding. The crossed ropes might catch on the step when falling.

When on a linesmen’s, if you need to lean in, force your hips back to keep it tensioned. Pressing the two strands together also maintains tension for leaning in, to the point you can hold both in one hand to allow use of the other. To advance the rope, lean in a little and whip it up with both hands, not with the fingers like a tether.

Aiders seem to be the wrong choice, as your feet are forced into the tree, or sweeping out from under. Circus performers climb up the side of their long ladder type aiders to keep their center of gravity closer to the aider. With a linesmen’s I can walk up a 5 step etrier in just a few seconds with no slack to deal with.

 

[DelaWhere_Arrow]

@Black Titan a little aside:
Noticed you said your rope & quick link are slipping. Got this trick from @Red Beard and it’s working great so far. Took about 7-8” of paracord and made a Celtic Button Knot/sliding Ranger Bead on my rope to cinch my quick link in place.

 

[Weldabeast]

I guess I just took for granted that everybody knew they supposed to be leaning back into the rope and flip the line up to advance.... That was a good video.
Another way to gain some stability that works with alternating rung aider (not sure about ladder style) is instead of putting ur toe into the tree use ur instep like if u were using climbing spur/spike

 

[kyler1945]

Oh man, so many complaints about this video. I believe the most glaring is the abuse/mis-use of terms.

The guy literally says "induce slack into your system" after which he immediately removes slack by leaning back into his lineman's belt and introduces tension. This is not slack. This is a misnomer. This is dangerous because someone who doesn't have a lot of experience climbing trees is going to think "okay, slack is good" and they'll probably get away with it for some time until they get comfortable and take a nasty fall.

I'm so tired of these dime a dozen "how to saddle hunt" videos that are just regurgitating second and third hand knowledge without any of the experience behind these techniques.

If you produce videos and have an audience, please don't do this! Do yourself (and your viewers) a favor and just reference/link the source material/videos of actual arborists/linesmen/rock climbers. This game of telephone is going to get someone killed.

Want to take over for me around here